JBR, PR and UMI

[joeskidbeck]

Patsy reminds me a lot of Brooke Shield's mother, Teri. They both realized that their daughters were beautiful and wanted to show them off to everyone. JonBenet and Brooke both seemed to be "trophy children" whose mothers were living through them. They also both had questionable pictures and videos taken of them that still cause controversy years later. They both looked a lot older in photoshoots taken of them. Brooke's mom had a very tight reign over her and I believe that if JBR had lived, Patsy would have been a dominating force in her life. I don't know if she would have tried to make JBR famous but I do think she would make sure that JonBenet was in lots of extracurricular activities, sports, honor roll, volunteering, and of course, pageants. "JonBenet, you will run for class president and you will win." By looking at JBR's 1996 Christmas week schedule, it seems that Patsy was already beginning to micromanage every second of her daughter's life. I can definitely see her being the mother who would tell a 14-year-old JBR what she would be doing for every second of the week. I believe that Patsy's obsession over controlling every aspect of JBR's life began in December. Can we think of any other week where JBR had more performances/appearances to take part in? Is it just a coincidence that JBR is murdered following a hectic week of entertaining others?

I agree Eileen in that it's not mistake it happened when it did. That last photo of JonBenet and Patsy tells so much. It's obvious that Patsy has been crying (am I the only one who's noticed this) The family was a ticking time bomb that morning and as the day went on, something happened to cause the explosion.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Is this the one, Beck?

 

[SunnieRN]

What always bothered me about that picture is the grip Patsy has on JonBenets arm. It doesn't seem like a warm and cuddly grip.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

What always bothered me about that picture is the grip Patsy has on JonBenets arm. It doesn't seem like a warm and cuddly grip.

I agree 100%, Sunnie. She's got JBR surrounded with one arm, and she has a death grip on her with the hand.

 

[joeskidbeck]

That's the one, mtm. Thank you for posting it. Not feeling well this morning and didn't feel like finding it again. You are awesome!

You know, it had to be hard on Patsy every Christmas after that, sure because her daughter died on Christmas, but those last photgraphs, you know they all had to look like this one. To me, it's sad. I may believe RDI, but I am not heartless. What this family went through I wouldn't wish on anyone.

 

[DeeDee249]

Is this the one, Beck?

Take another look at what JB is wearing in that photo. That looks to me like the exact color of the "pink blanket" in the wineceller, laying on top of the white blanket. We also know from the crime photos of JB's bedroom that there is a similar looking pink garment (which Patsy said was that pink pajama top) at the top of JB's bed.
Could it be possible that what the officer observed and THOUGHT was a pink blanket was the pink pajama BOTTOMS that Patsy said she couldn't find that night? If the tops were there, why not the bottoms? This lends just a little bit more credibility to the possibility that JB was changed into the pink bottoms that night originally and not the longjohns, as the Rs said. I can see leaving the white cotton top on, it was soft enough to sleep in and it is less disturbing to a sleepy child to change the bottoms than the top.
There has just been so much speculation about that pink object, and to me, this looks like the exact color.
And I also always thought Patsy looked like she had been crying- either that or a bad cold because her nose seems red. JB looks perfectly happy, though, not distressed at all.

 

[Agatha_C]

DD,

Your right the color is very close, but I still think the amount of fabric is to much to have been a 6y/o clothing. I could be wrong, but looking at my 7y/o who appears to be about the same size. Nothing she wears, looks that big when I throw, lay or stage it like in the photo. Not her nighties, not her pants and not her shirt, they are all too small.

It does look as if PR was crying, she also looks forced, as for JB, she was used to posing, I don't think we would see anything, but that pasted look she has in almost all of her photo's. BR photo's are the same, a pasted on look.

DD, you might be right about her wearing the pink pants that night and what happened to those anyway, could it be they're with the tape, rope and stun gun?

 

[BBB167893]

What always bothered me about that picture is the grip Patsy has on JonBenets arm. It doesn't seem like a warm and cuddly grip.

You're not the only one, Sunnie. The police thought enough of it to show it, point out how HARD Patsy's gripping her, and leave the photo up as they were through their presentation. I actually write about this picture (which I've been trying to find a large copy of-THANK YOU!) twice. Mostly about how it's in an area where JB was known to have bruising.

And no, Beck, you're NOT the only one to notice.

That picture is heartbreaking on a LOT of different levels.

 

[BBB167893]

Is this the one, Beck?

Thank you, mtm!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It does look as if PR was crying, she also looks forced, as for JB, she was used to posing, I don't think we would see anything, but that pasted look she has in almost all of her photo's. BR photo's are the same, a pasted on look.

I think JBR's smile looks genuine; she was 6, it was Christmas morning, and she was opening presents. I think Patsy looks upset because JBR didn't like the MyTwinn doll, however since that wasn't the only gift JBR got, JBR probably moved on while Patsy couldn't let it go.

However...if everyone in the family is upset that morning, that could explain why there is no christmas home video. It's a lot easier to conceal emotions in pictures than in a candid video.

 

[Agatha_C]

Eileen,

I respectfully disagree. JB, was taught to perform and she does everytime the camera comes up. This family was very particular about their upfront appearances.

 

[SunnieRN]

I'm curios, are there any pictures of JonBenets my twinn doll? Does anyone know what it was 'wearing', color of hair, eyes, etc.

To me the answers to these questions, could be why JB liked or didn't like the doll.

If it looked like pageant JB with blond hair and blue eyes, it could have been very upsetting to JB.

 

[Agatha_C]

Excellent question Sunni.

My "guess" is that the doll looks like the pageant queen JB, which in my opinion is PR's alter, so to speak. It was the rejection of what that doll represented that effected them both so much. I think its also telling, that PR, made sure to ask for that doll. I wonder where the doll is now? Did it get buried with PR?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Eileen,

I respectfully disagree. JB, was taught to perform and she does everytime the camera comes up. This family was very particular about their upfront appearances.

But why would JonBenet have to "perform" on Christmas morning? Why would she not have a genuine smile on her face? I can see having a forced grin while taking hundreds of pictures during a photoshoot after getting your hair and makeup done but this was Christmas morning. What was going on that morning to make a 6-year-old not happy?

I received a MyTwinn doll for Christmas when I was 7. It wasn't a surprise and I remember my mom spent weeks customizing every aspect of the doll. You could make that doll look however you wanted it to look as you got to choose the exact physical attributes you wanted. My mom spent a lot of time making that doll. I remember her constantly telling me to look up at her so she could see the exact shape of my nose. I can see Patsy being upset that JBR didn't like the doll because of how much effort she put into creating it. Patsy could have easily made the doll look absolutely perfect with perfectly symmetrical features. I can see JBR opening the doll and not liking it because it wasn't her.

 

[UKGuy]

Take another look at what JB is wearing in that photo. That looks to me like the exact color of the "pink blanket" in the wineceller, laying on top of the white blanket. We also know from the crime photos of JB's bedroom that there is a similar looking pink garment (which Patsy said was that pink pajama top) at the top of JB's bed.
Could it be possible that what the officer observed and THOUGHT was a pink blanket was the pink pajama BOTTOMS that Patsy said she couldn't find that night? If the tops were there, why not the bottoms? This lends just a little bit more credibility to the possibility that JB was changed into the pink bottoms that night originally and not the longjohns, as the Rs said. I can see leaving the white cotton top on, it was soft enough to sleep in and it is less disturbing to a sleepy child to change the bottoms than the top.
There has just been so much speculation about that pink object, and to me, this looks like the exact color.
And I also always thought Patsy looked like she had been crying- either that or a bad cold because her nose seems red. JB looks perfectly happy, though, not distressed at all.

DeeDee249,

The top worn by JonBenet in the photo is the pink top under discussion:
Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview Excerpt

15 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like --

16 this is like a pillow case or sheets or

17 something. (INAUDIBLE.) It was kind of an

18 (INAUDIBLE).

19 THOMAS HANEY: Anything else that

20 shows in that?

21 Okay. How about number 2?

22 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, see, that's the

23 pillow there.

24 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Her Christmas

0243

1 sweater.

2 THOMAS HANEY: When is the last

3 time she wore the Christmas sweater?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know

5 exactly.

6 THOMAS HANEY: Would that be where

7 it would end up?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

9 THOMAS HANEY: So not unusual?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

11 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. And you're

12 pointing in number 2 to this pink clothing item?

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

14 THOMAS HANEY: Can you identify

15 that?

16 TRIP DeMUTH: You can see it better

17 on photo 3.

18 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, okay. That's

19 the -- looks like a little pink pajama top, with

20 long underwear.

21 THOMAS HANEY: Was that part of a

22 set of --

23 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

24 THOMAS HANEY: -- tops and bottoms?

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Top and bottom,

0244

1 yeah.

2 THOMAS HANEY: And that, does that

3 appear to be one or the other?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks sort of

5 like the top, because there is a little tag,

6 might be at the neck, you know. It may be

7 inside-out.

8 THOMAS HANEY: And if you can, do

9 you know when JonBenet would have last worn

10 that?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: I know she wore it,

12 she had this on Christmas Day.

13 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.

14 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, like when

15 you get up for Santa Claus.

16 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.

17 PATSY RAMSEY: That day.

18 THOMAS HANEY: All right.

19 PATSY RAMSEY: She did not wear it

20 Christmas night, you know.

21 THOMAS HANEY: So when you put her

22 to bed, on Christmas night, do you recall, would

23 that or could that have been in the bed?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: It could have been

25 under the pillow or something, you know.

0245

It appears that both Trip DeMuth and Thomas Haney are agreed something is a nightgown?
Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview Excerpt

16 6. If we can go on to number 7. Do you want to

17 take them out. I don't know if that's easier or

18 not.

19 TRIP DeMUTH: Tom, while she is

20 looking at that, while we are looking at this

21 photo, do you want to bring out the nightgown?

22 THOMAS HANEY: I just thought if

23 we --

24 TRIP DeMUTH: You want to do it in

25 order?

0259

1 THOMAS HANEY: Yeah, whatever.

And the turtleneck ...
Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview Excerpt

20 TRIP DeMUTH: This might be the

21 drawer open slightly.

22 THOMAS HANEY: Number 18?

23 TRIP DeMUTH: How about the red

24 item in the upper right-hand corner?

25 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it's a

0266

1 little turtleneck, a little cotton turtleneck,

2 and I had wanted her to wear it to the Whites

3 and she didn't want to wear it.

4 TRIP DeMUTH: How did it end up

5 there?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Don't remember. A

7 crown. Oh, God.

8 THOMAS HANEY: It's about 10:25.

9 Do you want to take about a ten-minute break,

10 how's that sound? We will come back.

11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Crying.) (INAUDIBLE

12 RESPONSE.)

13 (Recess taken.)

Patsy explicitly identifies the pink object in the wine cellar as the barbie nightgown.
Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview Excerpt

21 TOM HANEY: This is the pink -- excuse me --

22 the pink item that again is in a plastic bag where the

23 photo was taken.

24 PATSY RAMSEY: That is her (inaudible). Why

25 was that there?

0383

1 TOM HANEY: What is it?

2 PATSY RAMSEY: It is her Barbie nightgown.

3 TOM HANEY: Is that hers or her Barbie

4 doll's? When would she have worn that last, do you

5 know?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she didn't wear it that

7 night because she had her -- she had the long underwear

8 pants and her little white shirt. And the night before

9 on Christmas Eve night she wore the pink little

10 (inaudible) that was under her pillow. You saw that.

11 And before that I don't remember. But neither of those

12 two nights she wore that.

Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview Excerpt

17 TRIP DEMUTH: This is her bathroom, her sink.

18 Which drawer would the Barbie doll nightgown have been

19 kept in?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably that one or the one

21 below it.

22 TRIP DEMUTH: The one that is opened or below

23 it right there in photo 18?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.

25 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.

Patsy's last visit to the wine-cellar, never mind the basement:
Patsy's 1998 BPD Interview Excerpt

9 TOM HANEY: The last time you were in the

10 wine cellar was Christmas Eve, Christmas day.

11 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably Christmas Eve

12 bringing packages out.

13 TOM HANEY: Would there have been any reason

14 for you to go back in there on Christmas day or did you

15 go back in there?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't believe I did.

17 No.

18 TOM HANEY: Okay. And on Christmas Eve, when

19 you went in there --

20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

21 TOM HANEY: -- this wasn't there?

22 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

23 TOM HANEY: How about the blanket?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Both Patsy and Tom Haney seem agreed that the pink object is a pink nightgown, could Patsy be misleading the interviewers?


.

 

[Agatha_C]

UKGuy,

Wow, it almost seemed like they led her into believing it was the nightie (at the beginning of the dialog). Was PR, being misleading? Wow!

It feels to me, as if they wanted her to disagree and say "That's not the Barbie Nightie, thats the so and so." after saying she hadn't been down there. They would have had her in a lie.. Dang it Boy!

 

[DeeDee249]

I had read that Patsy ordered the MyTwinn doll to look like JB in her pageant persona. Blonde curls, tiara, frilly pageant dress. When JB saw it, she said that it didn't look like her. She also told a friend who asked about all JB's trophies that "they're really my mom's". This is VERY telling, because JB didn't seem to identify with her "pageant self". She probably felt like an average little girl. That was the problem; to Patsy and Nedra, JB wasn't "average". She was SPECIAL. She was a future Miss America, destined for fame. She would grab the crown that her mother and aunt had missed.

Whether she liked it or not.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I had read that Patsy ordered the MyTwinn doll to look like JB in her pageant persona. Blonde curls, tiara, frilly pageant dress. When JB saw it, she said that it didn't look like her. She also told a friend who asked about all JB's trophies that "they're really my mom's". This is VERY telling, because JB didn't seem to identify with her "pageant self". She probably felt like an average little girl. That was the problem; to Patsy and Nedra, JB wasn't "average". She was SPECIAL. She was a future Miss America, destined for fame. She would grab the crown that her mother and aunt had missed.

Whether she liked it or not.

I definitely believe that Patsy and Nedra liked the pageants more than JBR liked them. I've seen pictures of JBR where she's just being a normal kid and she does not look like a girly girl at all. I just can't see her wanting to spend hours getting her hair and makeup done and learning routines and taking pictures with eccentric outfits on. I bet that if the MyTwinn doll had been wearing a t-shirt and shorts and had JBR's normal straight hair, JBR would have liked it a lot better. It just showed JBR that this was how she was supposed to look---this was her TWIN. "Here, JonBenet, this a doll that looks just like you. See her beautiful blonde curls and her pink dress. That's you!" I can see why JBR would be annoyed--I would be too.

Isn't it ironic that JonBenet became more famous as a murdered 6-year-old than she ever would have become if she had been Miss America or Miss Teen USA?

 

[Agatha_C]

DD and Eileen,

I think your both right. DD, that doll and those trophies were not JB, they really were PR's. JB, was the child PR wanted to be, and was as an alter. I think it was where she went as a child, to that princess land, where dolls look like you and little girls wear sparkling Tiara's.

I know all little girls go there in their minds. PR, she really went there, Like Alice in Wonderland without magic mushrooms or elixir, to get her back through the keyhole.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I have heard two disturbing accounts of JBR and pageants: 1.) JonBenet told someone that the runway at the pageants scared her and 2.) Patsy wouldn't let Jonbenet put her jacket on because she was on show. Does anyone have more info or opinions about those two incidents?

Although I don't agree with child beauty pageants, I do believe that there are children who would genuinely enjoy them. There are little girls who are very girly and would love to get their hair and makeup done just like the teenagers do. I don't think JBR was one of those girls. I think she was becoming more outspoken and her own person as she got older and that was causing her to clash with Patsy.