"Jersey" and MW #2

[Whisperer]

Breannes...Tori staffords....christopher Abyetas...thats just off the top of my head...i've had a couple of glasses of wine...(in my defense its 9pm here) so can't think of more at the mo..:seeya:

I don't know these cases but how do you know they are innocent?

 

[Whisperer]

I bet that if the call did come in...she was outside and did not hear it.

IMO...this gal is a chatterbox and wouldn't leave her phone unattended. She must have known one of the phones may be shut off...she borrowed her Dad's the day before.

 

[Whisperer]

If Jersey took Lisa, why did he remove her clothes prior to exiting? Why haven't they charged him yet? He surely had to leave evidence behind. Or are some suggesting he wore latex gloves for this adventure?

 

[mlc9852]

Totally agree.

She may have had unlimited minutes. I know there are some pre-paids (like Straight Talk) that offer unlimited talk, text and internet.

 

[askfornina]

She may have had unlimited minutes. I know there are some pre-paids (like Straight Talk) that offer unlimited talk, text and internet.

on her facebook q&a page, she said she paid $40 a month which got her 30 days use, 1200 minutes, unlimited texting/web/IM.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

If Jersey took Lisa, why did he remove her clothes prior to exiting?

What makes you think her clothes were removed? Source?

 

[Tuffy]

What makes you think her clothes were removed? Source?

The witnesses that describe a man walking with a baby, say the baby was not clothed. DB says that Lisa was wearing pajamas when she put her to bed.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

The witnesses that describe a man walking with a baby, say the baby was not clothed. DB says that Lisa was wearing pajamas when she put her to bed.

That's assuming you believe the witness and that the baby was Lisa.

 

[Karmaa]

I don't know these cases but how do you know they are innocent?

Breanne's case - they found the killer and he confessed. http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/15/missouri.missing.girl/

Tori's case - Found killers. Pled guilty and confessed. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/12/09/tori-stafford-mcclintic.html

Chris Abeyta - Mother failed LDT x2. Viable suspect exists, but police department destroyed most evidence. Family has been searching for 25 years. http://www.findchristopher.com/investigativefacts.html

Riley Fox - Father failed LDT. Father was coerced into a confession. Jailed for 8 months. DNA cleared him, and real killer found 5 years later. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/riley-fo...charged-murder/story?id=10878773#.Tsj7gFbL_K8

Part of the problem is that many times it's impossible to PROVE that the parents didn't do something. So if they fail the LDT, but no one else is ever caught, they can't be used as *proof* that innocent people do fail LDTs. (Chris Abeyta for example). Think about the Ramsey's for instance. They were dragged through the mud for years - the most horrid things said about them... they were finally CLEARED, with the most impressive apology from an LE agency that I have ever heard, and yet some people STILL insist that the parents were guilty. (And no, I am NOT saying that the Ramseys failed LDT's - the case is an example of how hard it is to *prove* someone's innocence.)

So, theoretically, in many cases where the parents failed polygraphs but have not been charged or convicted, the parents are innocent. But they can't really be used since there is no way to prove it.

 

[Tuffy]

That's assuming you believe the witness and that the baby was Lisa.

Exactly, and I don't believe it.

 

[JohnBull]

Think about the Ramsey's for instance. They were dragged through the mud for years - the most horrid things said about them... they were finally CLEARED, with the most impressive apology from an LE agency that I have ever heard, and yet some people STILL insist that the parents were guilty. ...

A bit off topic, but I felt extremely confident that the Ramseys were innocent the moment I looked at the autopsy photos. And yet they're never going to be completely exonerated because the situation fit right into the stock paradigm, which is the default position of every Keystone Kops police department, third rate amateur detective and uninformed member of the general public.

 

[JohnBull]

Exactly, and I don't believe it.

A clear case of mass hysteria, no doubt.

 

[Karmaa]

A bit off topic, but I felt extremely confident that the Ramseys were innocent the moment I looked at the autopsy photos. And yet they're never going to be completely exonerated because the situation fit right into the stock paradigm, which is the default position of every Keystone Kops police department, third rate amateur detective and uninformed member of the general public.

In all fairness, the stock paradigm is what it is for a reason. In most cases one of the parents or a family member is responsible for harm or disappearance of a child. Most. Not all.

But you are correct. There is a definite lack of logic that causes some people to take those statistics as their default position, and to twist whatever meager information they get to support their assumptions. By not looking at the evidence from an open-minded perspective, they can't see anything except data which supports their personal gut-level opinion. It's really rather sad, because if they are wrong, they have done a terrible injustice to innocent people, and if they are right they haven't "won" anything. When LE takes this position, they can completely destroy lives, completely discount evidence of the real perpetrators guilt, and overlook the more obvious solution, in their zeal to solve the crime. (And NO, I am not saying that LE is bad and does this every time or is doing it in this case. But when they do, it can be devastating.)

Just my humble opinion, as always

 

[matou]

Breanne's case - they found the killer and he confessed. http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/15/missouri.missing.girl/

Tori's case - Found killers. Pled guilty and confessed. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/12/09/tori-stafford-mcclintic.html

Chris Abeyta - Mother failed LDT x2. Viable suspect exists, but police department destroyed most evidence. Family has been searching for 25 years. http://www.findchristopher.com/investigativefacts.html

Riley Fox - Father failed LDT. Father was coerced into a confession. Jailed for 8 months. DNA cleared him, and real killer found 5 years later. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/riley-fo...charged-murder/story?id=10878773#.Tsj7gFbL_K8

Part of the problem is that many times it's impossible to PROVE that the parents didn't do something. So if they fail the LDT, but no one else is ever caught, they can't be used as *proof* that innocent people do fail LDTs. (Chris Abeyta for example). Think about the Ramsey's for instance. They were dragged through the mud for years - the most horrid things said about them... they were finally CLEARED, with the most impressive apology from an LE agency that I have ever heard, and yet some people STILL insist that the parents were guilty. (And no, I am NOT saying that the Ramseys failed LDT's - the case is an example of how hard it is to *prove* someone's innocence.)

So, theoretically, in many cases where the parents failed polygraphs but have not been charged or convicted, the parents are innocent. But they can't really be used since there is no way to prove it.

I don't know the last case you mentioned but the only case here that is similar is Abeyta's case. In Breeann and Tori's murder, neither of them were at home sleeping with the parent also in the home. Both girls were abducted while they were outside and murdered by people other than the parents. I know the victims' parents claimed that they failed their lie detector tests in those cases. I don't put much faith in these tests, really. I find the parents behavior in this case suspicious based on the changing time tine and their refusal to cooperate with police three days after their child goes missing. It is possible that a child can be abducted from their home while the parents are there. A case in Canada, Keinan Hebert, a 3 years old, was taken and returned by the abductor. Everyone was overjoyed and thankful. It is possible Lisa was abducted. I just don't think this is what happened in this case. I hope I'm wrong and Lisa will turn up alive. The stats show that if she was abducted by someone other than a parent, that she is likely alive. I don't have the stats link for this.

Here is a snippet of Keinan's case: http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/09/12/three-year-old-keinan-hebert-returned-to-family/

 

[Kamille]

Have we ever discussed where Jersey may have been staying during the week and a half leading up to Lisa's disappearance? After MW claims they had broken up.

He's been described as homeless, having fled a halfway house where he was supposed to be staying. I guess we can assume that he stayed with MW at times but where did he go to sleep and take care of his personal hygiene after they broke up? At some point in the days leading up to Lisa's disappearance he completely shaved his head bald. From the pictures of him in court, it appears he did a rather good job of it. Shaved clean...likely with a razor.

So was this done for him by someone? A barber? A friend? Did he do it himself and where would have have been able to go to do this? A public washroom? Was he squatting in a home with running water? It seemed too clean of a shave for someone to do themselves but I admit I don't know how difficult that would be to do by yourself.

I just wonder what connections he has/had in the neighbourhood other than MW and who might have taken him in after his break up. Did he stay with his "friend" across from the Irwin house? Or was he really just sleeping in abandoned buildings or out in the open. Where would he keep his bike? I assume he stole the minivan that he drove up to the "flop house" after Lisa's disappearance. Perhaps he was caught in it and that's what his current "tampering with a vehicle" charge is about. So when was it stolen, and why? He doesn't seem to have a record of taking vehicles, just taking the contents.

Lots of questions still remain unanswered about Jersey and any other associations he may have had IMO.

MOO

 

[mlc9852]

The witnesses that describe a man walking with a baby, say the baby was not clothed. DB says that Lisa was wearing pajamas when she put her to bed.

Not pajamas - purple shorts and a shirt with kittens. Why would the "kidnapper" take her clothes off before taking her?

 

[Twelve of One]

The Riley Fox case is very similar to this one, IMO. In that case there were several unusual factors that made the father look guilty--it was the one night where the mother just happened to be out of town and the father had been out late and put the kids to bed on the couch instead of in their bedrooms. The father failed a lie detector and gave a confession after a long interrogation. Turned out the real killer was a neighborhood petty criminal who did a lot of burglaries. He entered the house to burglarize it, saw the toddler and took her without planning it, but left behind the 7-yr-old, and the father slept through the whole thing. The offender raped and killed the little girl though he had never been a pedophile offender before. LE was absolutely convinced the father was guilty.

Reminds me a lot of this case. Not exactly the same of course, but several noticeable similarities.

 

[In da Middle]

Have we ever discussed where Jersey may have been staying during the week and a half leading up to Lisa's disappearance? After MW claims they had broken up.

He's been described as homeless, having fled a halfway house where he was supposed to be staying. I guess we can assume that he stayed with MW at times but where did he go to sleep and take care of his personal hygiene after they broke up? At some point in the days leading up to Lisa's disappearance he completely shaved his head bald. From the pictures of him in court, it appears he did a rather good job of it. Shaved clean...likely with a razor.

So was this done for him by someone? A barber? A friend? Did he do it himself and where would have have been able to go to do this? A public washroom? Was he squatting in a home with running water? It seemed too clean of a shave for someone to do themselves but I admit I don't know how difficult that would be to do by yourself.

I just wonder what connections he has/had in the neighbourhood other than MW and who might have taken him in after his break up. Did he stay with his "friend" across from the Irwin house? Or was he really just sleeping in abandoned buildings or out in the open. Where would he keep his bike? I assume he stole the minivan that he drove up to the "flop house" after Lisa's disappearance. Perhaps he was caught in it and that's what his current "tampering with a vehicle" charge is about. So when was it stolen, and why? He doesn't seem to have a record of taking vehicles, just taking the contents.

Lots of questions still remain unanswered about Jersey and any other associations he may have had IMO.

MOO

He has been known to squat at a house in the 3700 block of N Lister (about 6 door up) while the owner was away. He had LE called on him many times for breaking into this house (through the window, no less) by the neighbor across the street. He felt so comfortable squatting in this house, he actually listed it as his residence when he was arrested.

 

[mck16]

He has been known to squat at a house in the 3700 block of N Lister (about 6 door up) while the owner was away. He had LE called on him many times for breaking into this house (through the window, no less) by the neighbor across the street. He felt so comfortable squatting in this house, he actually listed it as his residence when he was arrested.

When you say he was known to squat at this house, do you mean prior to LB's disappearance he was known or do you mean this info has come out since? Also who knew this? LE or people in the neighborhood? Also are the owner's of this house still gone or have they returned? I am sure they have been thoroughly investigated and the house searched. Is this correct? tia

 

[mck16]

In Da Middle,

In addition to questions in my earlier post: When the people in the house left obviously the water was left on, but how about their electricity and phone?