"Jersey" and MW #3

[Detective Klimpt]

JMO. If she did something to Lisa it was probably DB herself who checked her voicemail too, so she was up shortly before JI came home. He might have interrupted her. If she heard him driving into the yard it was too late to go putting the lights off because he could have noticed that and she couldn't pretend to be asleep if she'd just turned off the lights.

Not a reasonable theory for me. Using your thinking, what did she do with the cell phone she was using to check the email while in the house with the lights on?

 

[In da Middle]

From the view that SB has of the Irwin house, is she able to tell if even one little light is on, like for example the pumpkin light? I have a small ranch house similar to the Irwins. From the front of my house, you cannot see if my bedroom or bathroom light is on. From the back of my house, you cannot see if the other bedroom or bathroom light is on. Get my drift?

Donjeta, I'm willing to buy the fact that DB left some lights on when she went to bed intoxicated. I am not willing to buy that she did something with Lisa and left the lights on after doing it, and then went back to bed with lights on. Possible, but unlikely and stupid. On the other hand, I can't buy into an intruder turning on the lights or coming into a house with the lights on.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

The pumpkin light, no. The rest of the lights if she was still on her front porch, yes. I am thinking that the pumpkin light was either left on or if an intruder turned it on, it was to send a message about taking 'pumpkin pie' and probably knew what that light represented if it was Lisa's light. It could have just been a Halloween decoration and got forgot about in turning it off as it wasn't one that was always there also.

 

[hambirg]

I too, think if it was a SODDI it was not some random stranger. I have always thought this. It had to be somebody that knew a lot of things about that night IMO. And if it was a SODDI and it was somebody familiar with the family, DNA wouldn't rule them out as it could have been there at other times also. DNA could only be useful in this situation if it was a stranger SODDI IMO. The light switches may not be useful if JI already went through the house at first turning off the lights.

I agree. I also think not only did they know JI wasn't going to be home, but possibly JB as well. I strongly suspect, if it was a SODDI, that they also knew that DB was going to get drunk. . .possibly even encouraging it.

 

[In da Middle]

always found it odd that SB says she had some kind of "signal" with DB about lights being off or on in the house.

I don't think it was so much as a 'signal' but a common sense thing that they had. They were both stay at home mom's and might have visited after the kids have gone to bed on a nice evening often. If the lights were out, don't bother. If the lights are on, then fine to see. Especially for a before bed smoke break.

 

[hambirg]

Not a reasonable theory for me. Using your thinking, what did she do with the cell phone she was using to check the email while in the house with the lights on?

I don't think that theory negates anything. It would depend on where DB was in the house. She could have just quickly put the phone down with the others on the kitchen counter.

:doh:

The phones weren't there when Jeremy got home. Or. . .maybe they were.

Idk. . .I have to think on that awhile.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

What do you mean by 'intimate' knowledge? Like a layout? The house isn't very big, most robberies try to look for things out in the open. IDM (and others) have also mentioned there were multiple access points to the house.

True, most robbers look for things out in the open like tv's, dvd players, jewelry etc., things easy to sell on the street, not for babies sleeping in their cribs with the door shut. If I were to believe that someone other than the parents were responsible for this baby missing, then I would then have to go with someone had intimate knowledge of this family. The robber/intruder/kidnapper would have to climb up into that window, go through the house, know what room the sleeping baby was in, feel comfortable enough to flip on all the lights, open and shut doors, not disturb the dog or the sleeping/blacked out Mom, left the baby out of the bed, carry her down the hall out of the living room, into the kitchen, grab the cell phones and out the front door all the while knowing that the man of the house was not home and wasn't going to be for some time. So did Jersey have this knowledge of this family and their home? JMO.

 

[findlisa5]

First, I have to say in a forum on Jersey and MW, there's an awful lot of posting which has nothing to do with Jersey or MW.

Second, I have to point out the obvious. Namely, if Jersey did it (meaning took Lisa), then it stands to reason that he also: broke the window, turned on the lights (in both rooms), took Lisa, carried her towad the dumpster (as seen by neighbor couple), made the phone call to MW's phone, burned Lisa's clothes (as DB said the police showed her), carried Lisa past the BP gas station (as seen at the start of the surveilance video), made more phone accesses to voicemail and the internet, and carried Lisa on to the corner of 48th St. and N. Randolph St. (as seen by Mike Thompson) before Jersey did God knows what to her. Here, if I had to guess, I'm afriad that Lisa is deceased, and that her body will be found hidden somewhere in the woods (perhaps buried there) or in an abandon house or some other terrible place within walking distance from 48th and Randolph.

Third, I have to speak to this business of the lights being on. My guess is that Jersey (despite being a head-shaving, dog-stealing, fire-burning, house stealing nut) had the nice logical argument that he was responding to a crying, unattended baby when he entired the Irwin home. That's why he turned on the lights. I think he convinced himself he had every right to go into that house to get Lisa, because nobody was responding to her, and it was all up to him. Now, how that act of "response" changed in, "I'm taking this kid" is hard to understand, but considering Jersey's other bizarre crimes, I certainly don't put it past him.

Finally, yes, the John Picerno-reported location of the phone calls does bother me. But maybe JP's notes of the Nov. 1 meeting with the FBI were wrong. Maybe this aspect of the FBI's presentation was wrong. Mabye (as other Websleuths posters have questioned) the technique of triangulating position of a cell phone without GPS wasn't so accuate in this case. (If this triangulation approach worked accurately every time, then why weren't other people found even when they had cell phones with them when they were killed. Instead, it took way longer to find some of them!) The truth is there are lots reasons why the location info from JP for these cell accesses might not be accurate. My guess is that these cell access were made from a little over a mile from the Irwin along NE Parvin Rd as Jersey walked this route carrying Lisa.

In general, I think Jersey did it! That he did all-of-it! And, in a forum on Jersey, I feel compelled to say so.

 

[yllek]

First, I have to say in a forum on Jersey and MW, there's an awful lot of posting which has nothing to do with Jersey or MW.

Second, I have to point out the obvious. Namely, if Jersey did it (meaning took Lisa), then it stands to reason that he also: broke the window, turned on the lights (in both rooms), took Lisa, carried her towad the dumpster (as seen by neighbor couple), made the phone call to MW's phone, burned Lisa's clothes (as DB said the police showed her), carried Lisa past the BP gas station (as seen at the start of the surveilance video), made more phone accesses to voicemail and the internet, and carried Lisa on to the corner of 48th St. and N. Randolph St. (as seen by Mike Thompson) before Jersey did God knows what to her. Here, if I had to guess, I'm afriad that Lisa is deceased, and that her body will be found hidden somewhere in the woods (perhaps buried there) or in an abandon house or some other terrible place within walking distance from 48th and Randolph.

Third, I have to speak to this business of the lights being on. My guess is that Jersey (despite being a head-shaving, dog-stealing, fire-burning, house stealing nut) had the nice logical argument that he was responding to a crying, unattended baby when he entired the Irwin home. That's why he turned on the lights. I think he convinced himself he had every right to go into that house to get Lisa, because nobody was responding to her, and it was all up to him. Now, how that act of "response" changed in, "I'm taking this kid" is hard to understand, but considering Jersey's other bizarre crimes, I certainly don't put it past him.

Finally, yes, the John Picerno-reported location of the phone calls does bother me. But maybe JP's notes of the Nov. 1 meeting with the FBI were wrong. Maybe this aspect of the FBI's presentation was wrong. Mabye (as other Websleuths posters have questioned) the technique of triangulating position of a cell phone without GPS wasn't so accuate in this case. (If this triangulation approach worked accurately every time, then why weren't other people found even when they had cell phones with them when they were killed. Instead, it took way longer to find some of them!) The truth is there are lots reasons why the location info from JP for these cell accesses might not be accurate. My guess is that these cell access were made from a little over a mile from the Irwin along NE Parvin Rd as Jersey walked this route carrying Lisa.

In general, I think Jersey did it! That he did all-of-it! And, in a forum on Jersey, I feel compelled to say so.

BBM.

Mike T positively identified someone other than Jersey in a photo line up. His description of the man includes salt and pepper hair when it is confirmed (by neighbor Mary Hurt) that Jersey was shaven-headed by 1 pm on Oct 3rd. Mike T is a factor working against your theory that Jersey did all of it. JMO...

 

[hambirg]

First, I have to say in a forum on Jersey and MW, there's an awful lot of posting which has nothing to do with Jersey or MW.

Second, I have to point out the obvious. Namely, if Jersey did it (meaning took Lisa), then it stands to reason that he also: broke the window, turned on the lights (in both rooms), took Lisa, carried her towad the dumpster (as seen by neighbor couple), made the phone call to MW's phone, burned Lisa's clothes (as DB said the police showed her), carried Lisa past the BP gas station (as seen at the start of the surveilance video), made more phone accesses to voicemail and the internet, and carried Lisa on to the corner of 48th St. and N. Randolph St. (as seen by Mike Thompson) before Jersey did God knows what to her. Here, if I had to guess, I'm afriad that Lisa is deceased, and that her body will be found hidden somewhere in the woods (perhaps buried there) or in an abandon house or some other terrible place within walking distance from 48th and Randolph.

Third, I have to speak to this business of the lights being on. My guess is that Jersey (despite being a head-shaving, dog-stealing, fire-burning, house stealing nut) had the nice logical argument that he was responding to a crying, unattended baby when he entired the Irwin home. That's why he turned on the lights. I think he convinced himself he had every right to go into that house to get Lisa, because nobody was responding to her, and it was all up to him. Now, how that act of "response" changed in, "I'm taking this kid" is hard to understand, but considering Jersey's other bizarre crimes, I certainly don't put it past him.

Finally, yes, the John Picerno-reported location of the phone calls does bother me. But maybe JP's notes of the Nov. 1 meeting with the FBI were wrong. Maybe this aspect of the FBI's presentation was wrong. Mabye (as other Websleuths posters have questioned) the technique of triangulating position of a cell phone without GPS wasn't so accuate in this case. (If this triangulation approach worked accurately every time, then why weren't other people found even when they had cell phones with them when they were killed. Instead, it took way longer to find some of them!) The truth is there are lots reasons why the location info from JP for these cell accesses might not be accurate. My guess is that these cell access were made from a little over a mile from the Irwin along NE Parvin Rd as Jersey walked this route carrying Lisa.

In general, I think Jersey did it! That he did all-of-it! And, in a forum on Jersey, I feel compelled to say so.

It just doesn't fit.

If he turned on the lights because he felt entitled to be in the house because he heard a crying Lisa, why go through the window? What if he would have come face to face with an angry owner holding a crying baby as he was coming through the window? That doesn't make any sense! If there is noise, a burglar isn't going to climb through a window not knowing what's on the other side. Entering a house with a crying baby isn't an excuse to be there. It's a good way to get shot. JMHO

If Lisa was crying so hard that he could hear her on the street, why didn't the boys wake up? Why didn't any of the neighbors hear her? Why didn't the dog bark?

What did he do and where was he between the 11:57pm call and the dumpster fire? Why did he change his pants? Why wasn't a live baby Lisa crying as she was being carried down the street? Why would he take her clothes off in the house and not at the dumpster if that's where he burned them?

I could go on. .. but there are just too many of these questions, that I don't believe that Jersey could have been a lone SODDI.

MOO

 

[dog.gone.cute]

First, I have to say in a forum on Jersey and MW, there's an awful lot of posting which has nothing to do with Jersey or MW.

Second, I have to point out the obvious. Namely, if Jersey did it (meaning took Lisa), then it stands to reason that he also: broke the window, turned on the lights (in both rooms), took Lisa, carried her towad the dumpster (as seen by neighbor couple), made the phone call to MW's phone, burned Lisa's clothes (as DB said the police showed her), carried Lisa past the BP gas station (as seen at the start of the surveilance video), made more phone accesses to voicemail and the internet, and carried Lisa on to the corner of 48th St. and N. Randolph St. (as seen by Mike Thompson) before Jersey did God knows what to her. Here, if I had to guess, I'm afriad that Lisa is deceased, and that her body will be found hidden somewhere in the woods (perhaps buried there) or in an abandon house or some other terrible place within walking distance from 48th and Randolph.

Third, I have to speak to this business of the lights being on. My guess is that Jersey (despite being a head-shaving, dog-stealing, fire-burning, house stealing nut) had the nice logical argument that he was responding to a crying, unattended baby when he entired the Irwin home. That's why he turned on the lights. I think he convinced himself he had every right to go into that house to get Lisa, because nobody was responding to her, and it was all up to him. Now, how that act of "response" changed in, "I'm taking this kid" is hard to understand, but considering Jersey's other bizarre crimes, I certainly don't put it past him.

Finally, yes, the John Picerno-reported location of the phone calls does bother me. But maybe JP's notes of the Nov. 1 meeting with the FBI were wrong. Maybe this aspect of the FBI's presentation was wrong. Mabye (as other Websleuths posters have questioned) the technique of triangulating position of a cell phone without GPS wasn't so accuate in this case. (If this triangulation approach worked accurately every time, then why weren't other people found even when they had cell phones with them when they were killed. Instead, it took way longer to find some of them!) The truth is there are lots reasons why the location info from JP for these cell accesses might not be accurate. My guess is that these cell access were made from a little over a mile from the Irwin along NE Parvin Rd as Jersey walked this route carrying Lisa.

In general, I think Jersey did it! That he did all-of-it! And, in a forum on Jersey, I feel compelled to say so.

1st BBM : :waitasec: That's a LOT of things to do for a man who is "homeless" with no car, traveling around the neighborhood on foot -- carrying around a 25-30 lb baby, with a knee injury ... :waitasec: Babies "cry" ... so how did he keep Lisa quiet ?


2nd BBM: :waitasec: So ... Jersey broke into the house to respond to a "crying, unattended" baby ? That makes no sense at all ... :waitasec: Let's see ... we have a "homeless man" who feels he is "entitled" to break into a house because the baby is crying and unattended ?

:waitasec: I sure would like to know how many other houses Jersey broke into to respond to "crying, unattended babies" ?


3rd BBM: So if "Jersey did it" -- what would be his MOTIVE ? :waitasec:


MOO ...

 

[partyuv5]

I too, think if it was a SODDI it was not some random stranger. I have always thought this. It had to be somebody that knew a lot of things about that night IMO. And if it was a SODDI and it was somebody familiar with the family, DNA wouldn't rule them out as it could have been there at other times also. DNA could only be useful in this situation if it was a stranger SODDI IMO. The light switches may not be useful if JI already went through the house at first turning off the lights.

what is SODDI?

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

A couple points, we don't know that anyone entered the window, just that the screen had be tampered with. I could have been that someone tried to enter the window then abandoned the idea, and checked the front door which they found unlocked. Or if the door had a KwikSet lock, they are very easy to unlock from the outside.
The perp probably left by the front door as well.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

what is SODDI?

Some Other Dude Did It :seeya:

 

[partyuv5]

First, I have to say in a forum on Jersey and MW, there's an awful lot of posting which has nothing to do with Jersey or MW.

Second, I have to point out the obvious. Namely, if Jersey did it (meaning took Lisa), then it stands to reason that he also: broke the window, turned on the lights (in both rooms), took Lisa, carried her towad the dumpster (as seen by neighbor couple), made the phone call to MW's phone, burned Lisa's clothes (as DB said the police showed her), carried Lisa past the BP gas station (as seen at the start of the surveilance video), made more phone accesses to voicemail and the internet, and carried Lisa on to the corner of 48th St. and N. Randolph St. (as seen by Mike Thompson) before Jersey did God knows what to her. Here, if I had to guess, I'm afriad that Lisa is deceased, and that her body will be found hidden somewhere in the woods (perhaps buried there) or in an abandon house or some other terrible place within walking distance from 48th and Randolph.

Third, I have to speak to this business of the lights being on. My guess is that Jersey (despite being a head-shaving, dog-stealing, fire-burning, house stealing nut) had the nice logical argument that he was responding to a crying, unattended baby when he entired the Irwin home. That's why he turned on the lights. I think he convinced himself he had every right to go into that house to get Lisa, because nobody was responding to her, and it was all up to him. Now, how that act of "response" changed in, "I'm taking this kid" is hard to understand, but considering Jersey's other bizarre crimes, I certainly don't put it past him.

Finally, yes, the John Picerno-reported location of the phone calls does bother me. But maybe JP's notes of the Nov. 1 meeting with the FBI were wrong. Maybe this aspect of the FBI's presentation was wrong. Mabye (as other Websleuths posters have questioned) the technique of triangulating position of a cell phone without GPS wasn't so accuate in this case. (If this triangulation approach worked accurately every time, then why weren't other people found even when they had cell phones with them when they were killed. Instead, it took way longer to find some of them!) The truth is there are lots reasons why the location info from JP for these cell accesses might not be accurate. My guess is that these cell access were made from a little over a mile from the Irwin along NE Parvin Rd as Jersey walked this route carrying Lisa.

In general, I think Jersey did it! That he did all-of-it! And, in a forum on Jersey, I feel compelled to say so.

i live at 48th and N. Bristol...1 block away from randolph. Police drive up and down 48th street at ALL hours of the night. Believe me I hear sirens ALL the time. I seriously doubt the sighting that Thompson had is legit. I can't imagine a man wondering around 2 to 3 miles away several hours after the "abduction" holding a baby...It just doesn't happen.

 

[partyuv5]

A couple points, we don't know that anyone entered the window, just that the screen had be tampered with. I could have been that someone tried to enter the window then abandoned the idea, and checked the front door which they found unlocked. Or if the door had a KwikSet lock, they are very easy to unlock from the outside.
The perp probably left by the front door as well.

I bet the window was open cuz drunk mom got on the computer and was smoking in the house and stumbled into it.

 

[findlisa5]

It's good to question, but, no, none of the questions above poke a hole in the theory I posed that John Steven Tanko is good for this crime.

Here's why:

1. Although Mike Thompson did pick a person other than Tanko out of a photo line-up, MT's description (5'7" to 5'8", 140-150 lbs, white T-shirt, salt-and-pepper hair, etc.) matches JT (5'7", 165 lbs, .., bald, etc.) pretty well. And, no, I don't see a big difference between salt-and-pepper hair and bald, especially from across the 48th St. at 4 am. Also, as other posters pointed out, photo line-ups can confuse people because of changes in hair style and what not from the time the pictures were taken. Also, MT waited a week to speak to police, so we might have to limit his observation to not much more than a man with a lightly-clad baby. But, even that limited observation at 4 am, is a shocker of a sighting and matches well with 2 other people's sighting and the BP video. So, yes, I believe it, and I think others should too.

2. Why go thru the window? Because nobody came. Jersey might have tapped on the window, knocked on the wall, knocked on door, who knows? When no one responded he decided that he was going in? Also, I'm not saying this really was "logical". I'm just saying it was "logical" in Tanko's mind. Keep in mind, Tanko took one of the neighbor's dogs, which, according to that neighbor was NOT one to run free. Then, later, Tanko turned the dog over to a shelter. Tanko was also living in other people's homes. This is not someone who respects other people things. No, instead, Tanko has no problem at all going through people's windows (especially if he thinks he has half an excuse to do so as I believe he thought he had in this situation).

3. Next, why didn't the boys wake up? Well, they were tired. Young boys sleep pretty soundly at 11:30 pm after a long day. If anything, they might have tried to tell their mom that Lisa was crying, but, wait, Mom is drunk, that's not going to do much good, is it? So, no, sadly, nothing got done, no one came to the door or to the window, and a well-rested Lisa Irwin cried.

4. Why didn't neighbors hear Lisa? What? This question makes no sense. JT was at the neighbor's house and DID hear Lisa cry. That's what I'm saying. You mean why did other neighbors (not Tanko) hear Lisa cry? Well, other neighbors were inside their houses at 11:30 pm. Tanko, on the other hand, was outside near the Irwin's house. That's why he heard her and came in.

5. I'll skip the exact details question on the timeline for now. Basically the 11:47 call Jersey made to MW's phone was made along the route between the Irwin home and the BP gas station somewhere (before or after) the dumpster. Which came first? I'd have to study more. I'm not quite sure why this matters to you. Basically, Tanko made the call because he wanted to tell MW that he had this baby. He wanted MW's help. When he could not reach her, then he went to a different plan. That plan, somehow, involved walking off toward 48th and N. Randolph Rd. What exactly was his plan? I do not know. I'm not sure even Tanko knew. Meth addicts don't do a whole lot of planning you know.

6. And, no, Tanko didn't change his pants. This is knit-picking the eye-witness sightings. The fact that 3 adults who sighted Lisa with Tanko agree as much as they do (and match the BP video) is already striking agreement condering the typical quality of eye-witness testimony and what people and an old surveillance camera can see across the street. You have to appreciate the agreement and disregard a few small discrepancies.

7. Why did Jersey burn the clothes instead of leaving them at the Irwin house? Because he didn't realized later that Lisa's clothing could allow people to recognize her. Why did he burn the clothes? Because he has a fire bug according to MW and his mutliple-count felony arson conviction.

I could go on and on. No, there are no big holes in the theory that Jersey did it. Instead, it's pretty compelling.

What shocks me is that most people think that Jersey had an alabi even though we've heard nothing about it that this, somehow, rules him out. No, I don't buy that. Jim Spellman doesn't buy it either. No, unspoken alibi's don't count. And it's not that easy to have people vouche for your whereabouts between 11:30 pm and 4 am. Are we suppose to believe the JT was hanging out with one of his meth buddies? Yeah, right. It's really hard to imagine JT having any reasonable alibi and we've heard absolutely nothing of the sort.

Instead, JT is a very, very good suspect in this case. Sure, I hope they find DNA to prove it was him to a near certainty. But, IMHO there's already enough evidence pointing to him to make a good case. And I expect finding Lisa will just add to this evidence. So, please, let's keep up the searches so there can be some justice for Lisa.

 

[highflyer]

It's good to question, but, no, none of the questions above poke a hole in the theory I posed that John Steven Tanko is good for this crime.

Here's why:

1. Although Mike Thompson did pick a person other than Tanko out of a photo line-up, MT's description (5'7" to 5'8", 140-150 lbs, white T-shirt, salt-and-pepper hair, etc.) matches JT (5'7", 165 lbs, .., bald, etc.) pretty well. And, no, I don't see a big difference between salt-and-pepper hair and bald, especially from across the 48th St. at 4 am. Also, as other posters pointed out, photo line-ups can confuse people because of changes in hair style and what not from the time the pictures were taken. Also, MT waited a week to speak to police, so we might have to limit his observation to not much more than a man with a lightly-clad baby. But, even that limited observation at 4 am, is a shocker of a sighting and matches well with 2 other people's sighting and the BP video. So, yes, I believe it, and I think others should too.

2. Why go thru the window? Because nobody came. Jersey might have tapped on the window, knocked on the wall, knocked on door, who knows? When no one responded he decided that he was going in? Also, I'm not saying this really was "logical". I'm just saying it was "logical" in Tanko's mind. Keep in mind, Tanko took one of the neighbor's dogs, which, according to that neighbor was NOT one to run free. Then, later, Tanko turned the dog over to a shelter. Tanko was also living in other people's homes. This is not someone who respects other people things. No, instead, Tanko has no problem at all going through people's windows (especially if he thinks he has half an excuse to do so as I believe he thought he had in this situation).

3. Next, why didn't the boys wake up? Well, they were tired. Young boys sleep pretty soundly at 11:30 pm after a long day. If anything, they might have tried to tell their mom that Lisa was crying, but, wait, Mom is drunk, that's not going to do much good, is it? So, no, sadly, nothing got done, no one came to the door or to the window, and a well-rested Lisa Irwin cried.

4. Why didn't neighbors hear Lisa? What? This question makes no sense. JT was at the neighbor's house and DID hear Lisa cry. That's what I'm saying. You mean why did other neighbors (not Tanko) hear Lisa cry? Well, other neighbors were inside their houses at 11:30 pm. Tanko, on the other hand, was outside near the Irwin's house. That's why he heard her and came in.

5. I'll skip the exact details question on the timeline for now. Basically the 11:47 call Jersey made to MW's phone was made along the route between the Irwin home and the BP gas station somewhere (before or after) the dumpster. Which came first? I'd have to study more. I'm not quite sure why this matters to you. Basically, Tanko made the call because he wanted to tell MW that he had this baby. He wanted MW's help. When he could not reach her, then he went to a different plan. That plan, somehow, involved walking off toward 48th and N. Randolph Rd. What exactly was his plan? I do not know. I'm not sure even Tanko knew. Meth addicts don't do a whole lot of planning you know.

6. And, no, Tanko didn't change his pants. This is knit-picking the eye-witness sightings. The fact that 3 adults who sighted Lisa with Tanko agree as much as they do (and match the BP video) is already striking agreement condering the typical quality of eye-witness testimony and what people and an old surveillance camera can see across the street. You have to appreciate the agreement and disregard a few small discrepancies.

7. Why did Jersey burn the clothes instead of leaving them at the Irwin house? Because he didn't realized later that Lisa's clothing could allow people to recognize her. Why did he burn the clothes? Because he has a fire bug according to MW and his mutliple-count felony arson conviction.

I could go on and on. No, there are no big holes in the theory that Jersey did it. Instead, it's pretty compelling.

What shocks me is that most people think that Jersey had an alabi even though we've heard nothing about it that this, somehow, rules him out. No, I don't buy that. Jim Spellman doesn't buy it either. No, unspoken alibi's don't count. And it's not that easy to have people vouche for your whereabouts between 11:30 pm and 4 am. Are we suppose to believe the JT was hanging out with one of his meth buddies? Yeah, right. It's really hard to imagine JT having any reasonable alibi and we've heard absolutely nothing of the sort.

Instead, JT is a very, very good suspect in this case. Sure, I hope they find DNA to prove it was him to a near certainty. But, IMHO there's already enough evidence pointing to him to make a good case. And I expect finding Lisa will just add to this evidence. So, please, let's keep up the searches so there can be some justice for Lisa.

Am totally sold on JT. Thank you for clearing this up in my mind.

 

[partyuv5]

It's good to question, but, no, none of the questions above poke a hole in the theory I posed that John Steven Tanko is good for this crime.

Here's why:

1. Although Mike Thompson did pick a person other than Tanko out of a photo line-up, MT's description (5'7" to 5'8", 140-150 lbs, white T-shirt, salt-and-pepper hair, etc.) matches JT (5'7", 165 lbs, .., bald, etc.) pretty well. And, no, I don't see a big difference between salt-and-pepper hair and bald, especially from across the 48th St. at 4 am. Also, as other posters pointed out, photo line-ups can confuse people because of changes in hair style and what not from the time the pictures were taken. Also, MT waited a week to speak to police, so we might have to limit his observation to not much more than a man with a lightly-clad baby. But, even that limited observation at 4 am, is a shocker of a sighting and matches well with 2 other people's sighting and the BP video. So, yes, I believe it, and I think others should too.

2. Why go thru the window? Because nobody came. Jersey might have tapped on the window, knocked on the wall, knocked on door, who knows? When no one responded he decided that he was going in? Also, I'm not saying this really was "logical". I'm just saying it was "logical" in Tanko's mind. Keep in mind, Tanko took one of the neighbor's dogs, which, according to that neighbor was NOT one to run free. Then, later, Tanko turned the dog over to a shelter. Tanko was also living in other people's homes. This is not someone who respects other people things. No, instead, Tanko has no problem at all going through people's windows (especially if he thinks he has half an excuse to do so as I believe he thought he had in this situation).

3. Next, why didn't the boys wake up? Well, they were tired. Young boys sleep pretty soundly at 11:30 pm after a long day. If anything, they might have tried to tell their mom that Lisa was crying, but, wait, Mom is drunk, that's not going to do much good, is it? So, no, sadly, nothing got done, no one came to the door or to the window, and a well-rested Lisa Irwin cried.

4. Why didn't neighbors hear Lisa? What? This question makes no sense. JT was at the neighbor's house and DID hear Lisa cry. That's what I'm saying. You mean why did other neighbors (not Tanko) hear Lisa cry? Well, other neighbors were inside their houses at 11:30 pm. Tanko, on the other hand, was outside near the Irwin's house. That's why he heard her and came in.

5. I'll skip the exact details question on the timeline for now. Basically the 11:47 call Jersey made to MW's phone was made along the route between the Irwin home and the BP gas station somewhere (before or after) the dumpster. Which came first? I'd have to study more. I'm not quite sure why this matters to you. Basically, Tanko made the call because he wanted to tell MW that he had this baby. He wanted MW's help. When he could not reach her, then he went to a different plan. That plan, somehow, involved walking off toward 48th and N. Randolph Rd. What exactly was his plan? I do not know. I'm not sure even Tanko knew. Meth addicts don't do a whole lot of planning you know.

6. And, no, Tanko didn't change his pants. This is knit-picking the eye-witness sightings. The fact that 3 adults who sighted Lisa with Tanko agree as much as they do (and match the BP video) is already striking agreement condering the typical quality of eye-witness testimony and what people and an old surveillance camera can see across the street. You have to appreciate the agreement and disregard a few small discrepancies.

7. Why did Jersey burn the clothes instead of leaving them at the Irwin house? Because he didn't realized later that Lisa's clothing could allow people to recognize her. Why did he burn the clothes? Because he has a fire bug according to MW and his mutliple-count felony arson conviction.

I could go on and on. No, there are no big holes in the theory that Jersey did it. Instead, it's pretty compelling.

What shocks me is that most people think that Jersey had an alabi even though we've heard nothing about it that this, somehow, rules him out. No, I don't buy that. Jim Spellman doesn't buy it either. No, unspoken alibi's don't count. And it's not that easy to have people vouche for your whereabouts between 11:30 pm and 4 am. Are we suppose to believe the JT was hanging out with one of his meth buddies? Yeah, right. It's really hard to imagine JT having any reasonable alibi and we've heard absolutely nothing of the sort.

Instead, JT is a very, very good suspect in this case. Sure, I hope they find DNA to prove it was him to a near certainty. But, IMHO there's already enough evidence pointing to him to make a good case. And I expect finding Lisa will just add to this evidence. So, please, let's keep up the searches so there can be some justice for Lisa.

Wasnt it reported that the neighbor SB was still outside at 11:30? It would be kinda hard for JT to come into the house a take a baby with the next door neighbor still out. And really, if he is a druggy..why would he want to take a baby..crying or not? It's as good case you tried to argue but not buying it all. Try harder.

 

[Whisperer]

I just don't see jersey removing the baby's clothes and leaving them in the house, taking a baby and three phones and killing her. I need to know if he is psychotic and if he is, the baby should easily be found.

I know he has one conviction of arson in NJ. I don't know about any others. I would think the dogs in the area would be barking like crazy. Neighbor would have heard a ruckus there as there are several dogs, some next door. It would make sense for him to take one phone but three? If he were the likely suspect, wouldn't the parents be down at the station demanding answers from him?

His only purpose to take Lisa was to undress her and kill her? The perp responsible took nothing of hers, not even her clothing or blanket. DB tells what Lisa was last wearing and the LE find that exact clothing in the house. This Tanko has to be a psycho/maniac/baby killer...if all this is true. Since I have had the opportunity to talk to such criminals in the past, I doubt any of them are capable of being a handyman or sustaining any kind of relationship at all.

The story is more likely that DB did something to the baby....that she lost her temper and Lisa paid the price. That the cell phones were hidden because they could be tracked, have DB fingerprints and calls made/rec'd on them. I bet that MW call is not the only call attempted at that time...it is the only one LE mentioned.

As far as people seeing a baby in a diaper being carried around town, I question their eyesight. Eye witnesses see lots of things after the fact; most aren't correct in what they saw.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I just don't see jersey removing the baby's clothes and leaving them in the house, taking a baby and three phones and killing her. I need to know if he is psychotic and if he is, the baby should easily be found.

I know he has one conviction of arson in NJ. I don't know about any others. I would think the dogs in the area would be barking like crazy. Neighbor would have heard a ruckus there as there are several dogs, some next door. It would make sense for him to take one phone but three? If he were the likely suspect, wouldn't the parents be down at the station demanding answers from him?

His only purpose to take Lisa was to undress her and kill her? The perp responsible took nothing of hers, not even her clothing or blanket. DB tells what Lisa was last wearing and the LE find that exact clothing in the house. This Tanko has to be a psycho/maniac/baby killer...if all this is true. Since I have had the opportunity to talk to such criminals in the past, I doubt any of them are capable of being a handyman or sustaining any kind of relationship at all.

The story is more likely that DB did something to the baby....that she lost her temper and Lisa paid the price. That the cell phones were hidden because they could be tracked, have DB fingerprints and calls made/rec'd on them. I bet that MW call is not the only call attempted at that time...it is the only one LE mentioned.

As far as people seeing a baby in a diaper being carried around town, I question their eyesight. Eye witnesses see lots of things after the fact; most aren't correct in what they saw.

BBM#1If there is a link stating LE found the Exact clothes Baby Lisa was wearing in the home, please link.
BBM2 Of course if they found DB's phone it would have her prints on it, it's her phone, and yes it would show what calls were made, it would not necessarily show who made them.