Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[raisincharlie]

I can argue both ways for which came first, and I think I have. One of the things that bothers me is that Detective Flores (who most of us seem to really like) originally said that the ME told him that the shot came first. Then the ME (who I'm not real crazy about, reminds me of some of the cocky Docs I've worked with), denies ever telling him that or even having a conversation with him, selective memory me thinks. Flores has to take the fall saying I must have misunderstood so as not to dispute the ME's testimony.

respectfully snipped...

.

I would hope an ME with an attitude issue would put it aside given the gravity of the situation. Dunno. One thing I cannot get past, and what keeps me in the line of thinking the gunshot was last is the clean spent casing laying in a pool of blood. The fact that it is clean is the part that says to me the gunshot came after the stabbing. Had there been blood on the casing, I would probably think otherwise but there simply wasn't any. The implication is clear, the gunshot came last, after all the fighting and stabbing and body draging and placing in the shower. What I do wonder however, given the cleanliness of the casing, were the fingerprint crew able to obtain any print or partial print from the casing. There has to be something on it, bullets do not simply load themselves into a magazine.

 

[raisincharlie]

Good old Gus is gonna tell Greta the things he didn't get to say in court - just heard. Turn it on folks.

 

[molly333]

There is a new group of profilers who study the words of a suspect to find the truth hidden in the stories they tell. One name for this is thoughtprints. The idea is that the subconscious mind, or the right brain, will always tell the truth within the lie that the conscious mind, or left brain, is constructing. This theory basically says that liars have to tell the truth, so they embed it within their constructed stories.

Twice now, Jodi Arias has told us the gun stopped working: once in the ninja story where the gun jams during a head shot, and once in the story told on the stand where she leaves the gun on the floor with a yelling Travis and runs to find the knife.

I think we should believe her. The gun jammed.

IMO

 

[JRS_JD2L]

BBM
So you guys are saying that if TA was stabbed 1st that he would not be able to make it over the sink? Pretty sure stabbing would make that possibility much higher than a shot to the head.

No...I'm not discounting the stabbing first, that's entirely possible. I don't think it's possible to be dogmatic either way. It just makes more sense to me that the gun was used first, that's all. But, certainly the sociopath premeditated the is murder one way or the other...by gun, or by blade.

 

[LambChop]

When JM was questioning Jodi about the sequence of events, about running to the closet, about shooting Travis first, about the timeframe of 62 seconds, he was clearing sending her a message he knows exactly what the sequence of events were and how they happened. JM mentioned the knife, then the closet and her eyes widened for a few seconds. She had the look of fear and anticipation in on her face and then he moved on with his question. Jodi knows the story she told would take too long, longer than 62 seconds but now she is stuck with it. From that one look on her face I believe she knows JM knows exactly what happened and he will pull it altogether in rebuttal.

As far as Mr. Samuels, she is hoping he can save her from the death penalty because she already knows she will not walk. jmo

 

[danzn16]

I agree that JA's version of events is impossible.

However, JA was still holding the camera in her right hand at least 62 seconds before she had inflicted all of the knife wounds on TA. And she may have even been holding the camera in her right hand for the entire 1 minute and 46 seconds of the killing. So I don't think JA could have been holding both the knife and the gun at the same time.

How do we know JA had the camera in her hand the whole time? Didn't she say she dropped it and then it happened? Not saying that she's telling the truth but has defense challenged that theory? One of the pictures are of the camera being behind her and took a picture of the floor and her foot. She couldn't have been holding it then.

 

[danzn16]

This is a really good point and not only is another reason why her story makes no sense but it also proves the gun jammed.

Because, like you said, she shoots him and they both go down. Now they are on the floor together and he makes his famous 'Kill you' statement, so what does Jodi do? Does she stand up and look for the gun, that has flown out of her hand, to protect herself?

No. She leaves the gun in the same room with Travis on the floor and goes to look for a knife!

She has just told us with her own words that the gun was no longer a threat because it wasn't working!

Man, I hope the Jury sees this.

Even Juan didn't get this.

IMO

Personally if I was going to kill someone in an apartment building or even a house with very close neighbors I would never ever do it with a gun. One shot can be mistaken for a loud noise etc. But multiple shots would surely have neighbors calling the police. I could understand why someone would not choose a gun if they could not get that person away from other people. And I don't believe anything about her story about leaving a gun in the room with someone that knows how to use it. I would think that would lead more towards the gun last really.

 

[LambChop]

There is a new group of profilers who study the words of a suspect to find the truth hidden in the stories they tell. One name for this is thoughtprints. The idea is that the subconscious mind, or the right brain, will always tell the truth within the lie that the conscious mind, or left brain, is constructing. This theory basically says that liars have to tell the truth, so they embed it within their constructed stories.

Twice now, Jodi Arias has told us the gun stopped working: once in the ninja story where the gun jams during a head shot, and once in the story told on the stand where she leaves the gun on the floor with a yelling Travis and runs to find the knife.

I think we should believe her. The gun jammed.

IMO

When did Jodi ever testify that she left the gun on the floor and ran to find the knife? Jodi claims that she has no memory after shooting Travis. She claimed the gun jammed when the gun was put to her head and they pulled the trigger in her weak attempt to explain why they did not shoot her. She could not very well say they shot at her and missed when only one shot was fired. If you have a day and Part # for the day she testified to this I'd like to hear it because her last testimony was she had no memory after she shot him until she heard the knife drop.

Jodi is also not your typical everyday liar. She has perfected the art. jmo

 

[danzn16]

There is a new group of profilers who study the words of a suspect to find the truth hidden in the stories they tell. One name for this is thoughtprints. The idea is that the subconscious mind, or the right brain, will always tell the truth within the lie that the conscious mind, or left brain, is constructing. This theory basically says that liars have to tell the truth, so they embed it within their constructed stories.

Twice now, Jodi Arias has told us the gun stopped working: once in the ninja story where the gun jams during a head shot, and once in the story told on the stand where she leaves the gun on the floor with a yelling Travis and runs to find the knife.

I think we should believe her. The gun jammed.

IMO

Or she could just be lying.

 

[LambChop]

How do we know JA had the camera in her hand the whole time? Didn't she say she dropped it and then it happened? Not saying that she's telling the truth but has defense challenged that theory? One of the pictures are of the camera being behind her and took a picture of the floor and her foot. She couldn't have been holding it then.

I think Travis had the camera. That is such a sad thing to say but it is possible he tried to pick up the camera and she attacked him and he held onto it, for whatever reason. That could explain the camera being in the bedroom shooting the picture back towards the bathroom where she cut his throat. She could have kicked it or he dropped it as he fell. I really do not know how else to explain that camera being in the bedroom shooting down the hallway. It appears Jodi picked it up or it may have been pulled along as she dragged him and the next picture was taken. If he were stabbed or shot and went into immediate shock it is possible he held onto that camera. jmo

 

[molly333]

When did Jodi ever testify that she left the gun on the floor and ran to find the knife? Jodi claims that she has no memory after shooting Travis. She claimed the gun jammed when the gun was put to her head and they pulled the trigger in her weak attempt to explain why they did not shoot her. She could not very well say they shot at her and missed when only one shot was fired. If you have a day and Part # for the day she testified to this I'd like to hear it because her last testimony was she had no memory after she shot him until she heard the knife drop.

Jodi is also not your typical everyday liar. She has perfected the art. jmo

I can only tell you from my memory. It was during the back and forth cross with Juan about the event, so the day he questioned her on the story of the closet.

She said he lunged at her in his linebacker pose, the gun went off, she wasn't even sure she had shot him, they both landed together on the floor of the bathroom, he threatened to kill her, she rolled away and ran. Then the lights go out.

Juan asked her, did you look back? And, she said I was running for my life, why would I look back. Something like that.

Then he goes on to ask her about the knife and of course, she can't remember the knife, but his question to her was basically, if you didn't know you shot him, why would you go back with a knife? Just run and get out of there.

Of course, she conveniently can't remember anything about the knife.

But, implicit in that story is the fact that she left Travis on the floor with the gun and went to find the knife.

Why would she do that? So she comes back armed with a knife and now Travis has the gun?

...unless she knew the gun didn't work because it jammed when she tried to shoot him the second time in the shower.

I'm just saying she's told us twice now, once explicitly and once implicitly, that the gun jammed.

IMO

 

[molly333]

Personally if I was going to kill someone in an apartment building or even a house with very close neighbors I would never ever do it with a gun. One shot can be mistaken for a loud noise etc. But multiple shots would surely have neighbors calling the police. I could understand why someone would not choose a gun if they could not get that person away from other people. And I don't believe anything about her story about leaving a gun in the room with someone that knows how to use it. I would think that would lead more towards the gun last really.

Whether she used it first or last or in between, she did use a gun.

I beiieve she made sure there were no room mates there first.

But, if you were afraid of using a gun because of the noise, you for sure wouldn't use it last, after you just slit his throat. Just wait for 30 seconds.

IMO

 

[khaki]

although I do believe Travis's neck was slashed in the bedroom, at the end of the hall, I never thought the picture of her dragging him was at that location....I believe the camera remained where it was when it was "dropped", and that that photo was taken in the bathroom after she had dragged him most of the way back to the shower....I believe the lighting in that photo indicates it was taken in the bathroom

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

I don't believe her story about the argument because she is such a liar. Travis didn't threaten to kill her when she messed up the BMW, when she slashed his tires, when she followed him on dates, etc. She stayed in his house for free, ate his food, etc. He picked her up at work and did all kinds of things to help her out. Since he had spent thousands of dollars on her, the only way I could see him getting THAT upset would be if he had been getting ready to go to the airport to go to Cancun, the camera was broken, and he had to take the trip without a camera. The trip wasn't until the 10th, though. Jodi was supposedly making payments on the car. Why couldn't she pay back the money for the camera if she had broken it? I don't think Jodi and Travis had time to get into an argument and then Jodi have enough time left to do all the stabbing, shooting, dragging, etc.

I know that Gabby Giffords was shot with a higher-powered gun, but does anyone remember if she was able to move around after her shooting or if she was immediately incapacitated? Would Gabby have been able to run away from the guy who shot her? Dr. Horn's explanation sounds correct, but as some on here have said, Jodi pointing a gun at Travis in the shower makes more sense.

 

[RealityMan]

When did Jodi ever testify that she left the gun on the floor and ran to find the knife?

In response to the jury question asking why JA didn't just shoot TA a second time, JA claimed they both went tumbling to the ground after the gunshot and she lost track of the gun after that.

 

[RealityMan]

How do we know JA had the camera in her hand the whole time? Didn't she say she dropped it and then it happened? Not saying that she's telling the truth but has defense challenged that theory? One of the pictures are of the camera being behind her and took a picture of the floor and her foot. She couldn't have been holding it then.

I believe JA could've been holding the camera in the last two shots. Either that, or the camera is around her neck. It does not look like the camera is on the ground in those photos. And the camera seems to have been moving with JA for the entire 1 minute and 46 second sequence.

 

[LambChop]

I can only tell you from my memory. It was during the back and forth cross with Juan about the event, so the day he questioned her on the story of the closet.

She said he lunged at her in his linebacker pose, the gun went off, she wasn't even sure she had shot him, they both landed together on the floor of the bathroom, he threatened to kill her, she rolled away and ran. Then the lights go out.

Juan asked her, did you look back? And, she said I was running for my life, why would I look back. Something like that.

Then he goes on to ask her about the knife and of course, she can't remember the knife, but his question to her was basically, if you didn't know you shot him, why would you go back with a knife? Just run and get out of there.

Of course, she conveniently can't remember anything about the knife.

But, implicit in that story is the fact that she left Travis on the floor with the gun and went to find the knife.

Why would she do that? So she comes back armed with a knife and now Travis has the gun?

...unless she knew the gun didn't work because it jammed when she tried to shoot him the second time in the shower.

IMO

Jodi does not say what happened to the gun and she can't tell JM where the knife was only that Travis did not have it. If Travis were shot he would not be jumping up right away and she had already used up at least half of the time until the moment when the picture was taken with Travis' throat cut. Yet Jodi had time to locate the knife and stab him 29 times and then cut his throat. That is like a stab a second. That is pretty intense for 31 seconds and lets not forget in the picture taken down the hallway, showing that Travis has already had his throat cut.

Time wise there does not seem to have been enough time for all this to have happened in 62 seconds. Just not possible. However, stabbing/shooting him without getting the gun and knife she could have easily stabbed him 29 times and cut his throat in those 62 seconds.

I think it was deliberate that JM mentioned that Jodi also uses the "F" word because I think she was the one to use it that night, not Travis. jmo

 

[molly333]

In response to the jury question asking why JA didn't just shoot TA a second time, JA claimed they both went tumbling to the ground after the gunshot and she lost track of the gun after that.

Right. Because that bathroom is so big. Who could find a gun on the floor? :facepalm:

 

[LambChop]

I believe JA could've been holding the camera in the last two shots. Either that, or the camera is around her neck. It does not look like the camera is on the ground in those photos. And the camera seems to have been moving with JA for the entire 1 minute and 46 second sequence.

We do not know that. It could have been moving with Travis. We know Jodi had to have had the gun and the knife to accomplish what she did in such a short time. jmo

 

[molly333]

Jodi does not say what happened to the gun and she can't tell JM where the knife was only that Travis did not have it. If Travis were shot he would not be jumping up right away and she had already used up at least half of the time until the moment when the picture was taken with Travis' throat cut. Yet Jodi had time to locate the knife and stab him 29 times and then cut his throat. That is like a stab a second. That is pretty intense for 31 seconds and lets not forget in the picture taken down the hallway, showing that Travis has already had his throat cut.

Time wise there does not seem to have been enough time for all this to have happened in 62 seconds. Just not possible. However, stabbing/shooting him without getting the gun and knife she could have easily stabbed him 29 times and cut his throat in those 62 seconds.

I think it was deliberate that JM mentioned that Jodi also uses the "F" word because I think she was the one to use it that night, not Travis. jmo

Well, don't forget, no one believes the running through the closet story. So that saves about 45 seconds right there.

Plenty of time to shoot him first, get the knife, and then the knife wounds--if the knife was close by.

I agree, she said to him what she says he said to her.

IMO