Jodi Arias Trial discussion, #3

[LambChop]

I didn't say used and abused. Nor fragile. Just potentially very insecure. They are not in the same house in my books.

Women who are insecure don't drive over 1,000 miles by themselves. They would have brought someone with them. I don't think she was interested in Mr. Ryan. I think she thought she could throw LE off if they thought she was already involved with another person and she USED Mr. Ryan for that purpose. You just don't drive 2,000 miles round trip just to see someone for a couple of hours. Fly in to see them for a weekend, yes. But Mr. Ryan, as we already know, was not the person she was making the trip for, he was the alibi. She was not insecure, she just would not be denied, under any circumstances. jmo

 

[lonetraveler]

It really bothers me that the prosecutor didn't ask Ryan Burns about JA's physical appearance. Did she have a black eye? A broken nose? Bruises on her wrists, arms, chest, thighs. Just anything that might indicate that TA hit her when she dropped the camera.

I think that would have helped the jury dismiss the whole self defense BS.

Well he did say that she had two small bandages on her fingers. He was asked if he got to see her and he said that she had a six-pack and was very strong. She physically adjusted him and jumped up on top of him and started the grinding.

So, I don't think she was feeling beaten up or anything, in fact I think she was feeling very powerful (Ryan Burns is a big guy, not easy to physically adjust so she can be on top).

 

[HauntsForHope]

Again....I asked specifically about psychopathy.

What is Psychopathy?
Psychopathy is among the most difficult disorders to spot. The psychopath can appear normal, even charming. Underneath, they lack conscience and empathy, making them manipulative, volatile and often (but by no means always) criminal. They are an object of popular fascination and clinical anguish: psychopathy is impervious to treatment.

Psychopaths lack a conscience, as opposed to sociopaths, who generally have an impaired but operative conscience. It is important to note that the vast majority of people with antisocial tendencies are not psychopaths.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/psychopathy

 

[Curious Me]

Mark Brummet (he's on JVM show now) says Travis became his friend and helped him a great deal develop who he is today. Mark says Travis told him Travis listened to self motivational and confidence building tapes before going to bed.

 

[HarvestMoon]

Why are we arguing about psychological conditions? We KNOW that JA is bat S**T crazy! Does it matter if she has some specific disorder vs another?

Well, poster Ernest Borgnine seems quite sure that said defendant only suffers from insecurity, if I am not mistaken.

 

[Londonrraine]

I don't see how this can be believed to be self-defense. This murder was brutal and JA's behavior is so calm and cold, she has a very obvious disconnect going on.

And she says, "No jury will convict me"?

 

[norest4thewicked]

Wow, thats crazy. Anyone know when JA did that interview where she said MARK MY WORDS etc etc? I wonder if that was after she saw FCA get off with murder...

I think I read it was done in 2010 or 2011.

ETA: I just found it and they said it was late in 2008.

 

[LotusPawprint]

you are really going with the whole idea that she was a sadist and wanted to do all that to him? if she stabbed him with something in the house and took it with her thats not premeditation. if she stole the gun i am sure that it was no way in her plan to stab him first. why risk being caught with it, it being found and traced back to her family, why get blood everywhere and leave more fingerprints?

Yes, if she stabbed him with something in the house and took it with her, it could be premeditated. Premeditation can be formed in a split second. There's no "minimum time requirement" for premeditation. You don't have to come equipped with tools and commit a well-planned, well -executed crime for it to be premeditated.

Premeditation doesn't require the murderer to be intelligent. It doesn't require that the crime scene is going to be cleaned up all nice and neat, the gun can't traced back, fingerprints gone, blood and DNA gone.... that has absolutely nothing to do with premeditation.

 

[Mintedlace]

well the jury didn't either

I really thought the jury would ask that. I would have.

 

[popsicle]

Well he did say that she had two small bandages on her fingers. He was asked if he got to see her and he said that she had a six-pack and was very strong. She physically adjusted him and jumped up on top of him and started the grinding.

So, I don't think she was feeling beaten up or anything, in fact I think she was feeling very powerful (Ryan Burns is a big guy, not easy to physically adjust so she can be on top).

that doesn't mean 5 yrs ago he was. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Again....I asked specifically about psychopathy.

And isn't it true that you can have both disorders? Now that would be dangerous.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well he did say that she had two small bandages on her fingers. He was asked if he got to see her and he said that she had a six-pack and was very strong. She physically adjusted him and jumped up on top of him and started the grinding.

So, I don't think she was feeling beaten up or anything, in fact I think she was feeling very powerful (Ryan Burns is a big guy, not easy to physically adjust so she can be on top).

She wasn't even sore from being so much as man handled by Travis.

 

[LambChop]

Again....I asked specifically about psychopathy.

And isn't it true that you can have both disorders? Now that would be dangerous. jmo

 

[GobBluth]

I believe with Axis 2 personality disorders (antisocial, borderline, narcissistic, histrionic, OCD, etc.), they don't specify the diagnosis anymore, since the traits of each tend to overlap each other. The last time I had to deal with this, long story, but the diagnosis was Personality Disorder with Borderline, Narcissistic, and Obsessive traits (or whatever traits that patient had.)

So, everyone is right!! YAY!

 

[Linda7NJ]

And isn't it true that you can have both disorders? Now that would be dangerous.

It would be redundant. All psychopaths are narcisstic.

Psychopathy isn't in the billing bible of shrinks (dsm) a good psychopath only gets to be a better psychopath with therapy. They learn more about how to fake empathy, what to say, how to act....they often fool psychiatrists.

 

[GobBluth]

I have been gone for a couple of hours, so apologies if this was posted before, but did anyone else notice the ironic language of JA? Such as, she couldn't use her phone because it was "dead all day," and she told the investigator on the phone that she was hanging out at the Starbucks in LA "just killing time."

Ew.

 

[LotusPawprint]

No one knows where the knife came from as far as I know. Do you have info to the contrary? I have wondered about this.

I can't recall where she brought the knife from specifically, but I've always heard she brought it with her vs. getting it from his house.

 

[norest4thewicked]

:banghead:

 

[TigerBalm]

Also, I was thinking about her arriving in Utah a day late. If you were establishing your alibi, wouldn't your premeditated plan include a schedule that makes sure you arrive on time?

The defense could maybe use her not showing up on time to claim that the murder was not part of the plan (i.e., just a rendezvous intended). Although I don't know how you get around the gun issue.

BTW, I am not an advocate for her. I am just looking at this as objectively as possible to understand what both sides have as evidence and are trying to convey. I am curious about the defense's case and open minded about whatever is to be presented.

Premeditation doesn't take years, months, days or even hours... only a mere seconds is sufficient in a court of law.

that scene means that the whole premeditated evidence is out thewindow. why steal and bring a gun if she was just going to stab him in the shwer?

See above answer..

 

[mck16]

When and under what circumstances did she change her story and admit to doing the murder? tia