Jodi Arias Trial Discussion #8 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[oceanblueeyes]

Admittedly, the investigator is very good, but his super soft voice is giving me the creeps.

He knows what he is doing. He plays his role as good cop very well.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

You and me both. I would have gone for insanity also.

It doesn't work that way.


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[PASA]

Right, because if it's not on video, who else could make the case for self-defense? Someone has to say it, and since there were no witnesses, it comes down to her.

Now wondering if it's on video... Does anyone know if she told the police the self-defense story or just her attorney(s)?

OTOH, if she testifies, what a mess it will be. She's a trainwreck.

If she testifies (the way she rambles) the trial will go on for a year or more.

 

[kscornfed]

You and me both. I would have gone for insanity also.

it's not that easy though. then you have to prove she's insane. it's a very tough defense and juries don't like it.

there's no evidence she's insane---doesn't know right from wrong. she's just your garden variety psychopath, and that's a personality disorder, not insanity.

she should've started out saying God told her to kill him or something. but she's not that smart.

 

[BritsKate]

I think her only chance was to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. She is clearly a mental case. If I was on that jury, I would want to hear from an expert about her state of mind.

The legal burden for insanity is (almost) impossibly high. She never could have met the burden in my opinion.

AZ follows a modified version of the M'Naghten rule. You can learn more about what that entails here: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/M'Naghten+Rule

 

[gitana1]

I'm off to my own, little trial right now so again I won;t be able to see much of this one, but a couple of clarifications based on things I saw in the last thread:

First, if jodi planned to try to convince Travis to be with her and to kill him only if that didn't work out, it would still be premeditation.

Second, "crime of passion" does not mean jealousy or romantic rage. It means, in a legal sense, that the murder was spontaneous due to sudden, unbridled emotions. Like if you walk in a room and catch someone molesting your kid and you attack and kill the molester. That is not premeditation. It's likely voluntary manslaughter.

Third, and this is an opinion, not fact, someone like jodi is NOT legally insane but many defense attorneys would shoot for that with facts like these. Remember the detectives in casey athony's case asking if she had ever suffered from mental illness? her lies were so outrageous, they thought she was insane. jodi is very similar. I don't think it would work but it is probably better than a self defense claim.

Have fun, y'all. I wish I could stay!

 

[SDT]

Yes - August 15, 2011.
http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/JOnamesearch.asp?casenumber=CR2008031021

That link is AMAZING and I highly recommend reading any of the minutes you guys have time for. I don't know what to believe as fas as what JA finally told the police as far as the sequence of wounds, but in the official minutes it has been noted several times that he was shot first????

I missed the ME's testimony...did he ever give a final conclusion as to the series of how he believes the wounds occured?

TIA for answering my question. I work all day and only get to see bits and pieces at a time. These threads move so fast it is impossible to work and catch every detail.

"The State presented evidence that the victim was first shot on the right side of his head near
his eye with a .25 caliber handgun and that the bullet lodged in his left cheek. This wound was not
fatal and may or may not have rendered the victim unconscious. The victim did not remain
unconscious based on the infliction of the other wounds and the location of blood spatter evidence
in the bathroom sink and blood in the hallway. In addition, the defendant told the police that the
victim was unconscious after being shot but then crawled around and was stabbed."

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

No. I cannot imagine the suffering. Especially if its true that he lost the use of his legs from on of the stab wounds. Can you just picture him crawling down the hallway trying desperately to escape. Poor guy.

Yeah DenverClipper it is horrifying to imagine. The poor man just trying to get away.

I don't mean to be too gross but I wondered why the ME couldn't say that the spinal cord was damaged by knife wounds? Did decomposition erase the ability to tell if nerves to the spine were damaged? Jodi is pretty strong. She nicked his skull with her stabbing. I can see her doing damage to Travis's spinal cord.

 

[mck16]

Admittedly, the investigator is very good, but his super soft voice is giving me the creeps.

It is putting me to sleep. Having a hard time staying awake. lol

 

[Linda7NJ]

The legal burden for insanity is (almost) impossibly high. She never could have met the burden in my opinion.

AZ follows a modified version of the M'Naghten rule. You can learn more about what that entails here: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/M'Naghten+Rule

Look at you ...with all these great links you provide!

I certainly hope everyone takes full advantage of all your effort and reads them. It's especially appreciated by me as I am, more often than not, too lazy to. But I so love to learn and make sure I click on all provided!


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[SDT]

Here is the other half of the court minutes....

"The victim was then stabbed 27 times in the back, shoulders, head and chest. Cuts on the hands were defensive wounds from grabbing the knife. With the exception of two wounds, these wounds were not fatal. The two fatal wounds were a deep stab wound to the chest and then a cut
across the throat. While conscious, the victim would have felt pain and mental anguish associated with these multiple wounds."

They are all in the minutes dated August 18, 2009.

 

[K_Z]

I know Esteban Flores was "just" doing his job, but wow-- what an impressive interviewer! He is SOOO patient and unflappable. Calming voice, etc. Persistent-- will not let her get away with anything, won't let her wander or change the subject for very long. Doesn't insult her. Is not flippant, or pulling a power position. He affords her a respectful tone, but continues to circle back to "no, I don't believe that happened", "I want to sit here and get to the truth", etc. Keeps her talking-- doesn't intimidate her. He is just incredible to listen to. Very smart not to send in a woman to interview her, IMO. JA responded much better to a man, who she seemed to feel she could manipulate with her vulnerable/ innocent little girl persona.

We "the public" don't often get to hear/ see these kinds of professionals at work. I really hope Esteban Flores' superiors adequately appreciate him, and reward him with excellent performance reports!

If I could, I'd give him an extra 3-4 weeks paid vacation, as compensation for putting up with Jodi Arias' BS for so many hours! What an amazing professional! As awful as it is to listen to JA's BS, it is a pleasure to see an unflappable professional calmly in control of the direction of the conversation. He rocks!

 

[Linda7NJ]

That link is AMAZING and I highly recommend reading any of the minutes you guys have time for. I don't know what to believe as fas as what JA finally told the police as far as the sequence of wounds, but in the official minutes it has been noted several times that he was shot first????

I missed the ME's testimony...did he ever give a final conclusion as to the series of how he believes the wounds occured?

TIA for answering my question. I work all day and only get to see bits and pieces at a time. These threads move so fast it is impossible to work and catch every detail.

"The State presented evidence that the victim was first shot on the right side of his head near
his eye with a .25 caliber handgun and that the bullet lodged in his left cheek. This wound was not
fatal and may or may not have rendered the victim unconscious. The victim did not remain
unconscious based on the infliction of the other wounds and the location of blood spatter evidence
in the bathroom sink and blood in the hallway. In addition, the defendant told the police that the
victim was unconscious after being shot but then crawled around and was stabbed."

Isn't that based on what the detective said?


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[BD1]

Funny that altho the enquirer won't publish the letters, they'll tell us the naughty bits, lol!

I can totally see TA requesting her to wear 'boy briefs' (probably meant boy shorts, those tight boxers made for women that your cheeks hang out of) and also blowing him with his cufflinks visible. Meh. I bet he never wrote it down, but she did as if he did.

Hitting her in the face?? Hm.

 

[callyn]

I think her only chance was to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. She is clearly a mental case. If I was on that jury, I would want to hear from an expert about her state of mind.

For sure she is nutz, but not legally insane.:twocents:

 

[SDT]

Isn't that based on what the detective said?


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I don't know who provided that information to the Courts. That is why I am curious as to what EXACTLY the ME did say as far as the sequence.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yeah DenverClipper it is horrifying to imagine. The poor man just trying to get away.

I don't mean to be too gross but I wondered why the ME couldn't say that the spinal cord was damaged by knife wounds? Did decomposition erase the ability to tell if nerves to the spine were damaged? Jodi is pretty strong. She nicked his skull with her stabbing. I can see her doing damage to Travis's spinal cord.

IMO of his spinal cord was injured it would have been noted in the autopsy report.


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[oceanblueeyes]

That link is AMAZING and I highly recommend reading any of the minutes you guys have time for. I don't know what to believe as fas as what JA finally told the police as far as the sequence of wounds, but in the official minutes it has been noted several times that he was shot first????

I missed the ME's testimony...did he ever give a final conclusion as to the series of how he believes the wounds occured?

TIA for answering my question. I work all day and only get to see bits and pieces at a time. These threads move so fast it is impossible to work and catch every detail.

"The State presented evidence that the victim was first shot on the right side of his head near
his eye with a .25 caliber handgun and that the bullet lodged in his left cheek. This wound was not
fatal and may or may not have rendered the victim unconscious. The victim did not remain
unconscious based on the infliction of the other wounds and the location of blood spatter evidence
in the bathroom sink and blood in the hallway. In addition, the defendant told the police that the
victim was unconscious after being shot but then crawled around and was stabbed."

Yes he did. ME said the autopsy evidence shows him the stab to the heart was first......followed by the other stab wounds including the one that almost decapitated him and he believes the shot to the head was last.

 

[gitana1]

That would not work. Believe me if the DT thought for a minute she was insane they would have jumped on that defense rather than the ridiculous one they have boxed themselves into.

Before defendants stand trial they have to be evaluated to see if they are mentally fit to stand trial.

She isnt insane. She is just another psychopath like many in our prison system that are doing LWOP or sitting on DR or have been executed.

IMO

Being fit to stand trial and legal insanity are two different things.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Hi, Cuckoohead. I agree. I think that this explains the emotional power of Jodi's three-quarters concocted story. I think that the injury to her hand (her knife hand) indicates that Travis was attempting to disarm her. To me, another strong indication that he was completely defensive, a badly wounded man trying to stop the attack.

Hi Chanler! Agree! If Travis hadn't been badly wounded immediately he would have been able to fight back a lot more aggressively. Instead the ME sees a couple of defensive wounds to his hand/s. His knuckles are clean, free of any bruises,abrasions or cuts from someone who has hit/punched back.

I don't see how the 'self defense' theory stands a chance.