JonBenet Ramson letter - written before or after + linguistics

[DeeDee249]

Actually, ALL claims made here are just opinions. IDI also claim the Rs did NOT commit the crime. Since no one truly knows here (as far as we know), that would be a lie as well, if the reverse were true. No one here has a right to call anyone else here a liar, because none of us were there.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Actually, ALL claims made here are just opinions. IDI also claim the Rs did NOT commit the crime. Since no one truly knows here (as far as we know), that would be a lie as well, if the reverse were true. No one here has a right to call anyone else here a liar, because none of us were there.

We're all just opinionated then. My opinon is a little less specific than yours, thats all.

 

[DeeDee249]

We're all just opinionated then. My opinon is a little less specific than yours, thats all.

Yes, that is a fair assessment. And even among RDI there are wide variations in who, how and when and why.

This is a wild idea- a nod to the Sci Fi geeks here- wouldn't it be something if one day they will be able to look into a murder victim's eyes and see what they saw? The LAST thing they saw?
I think I'll write a movie script...

 

[BBB167893]

Actually, ALL claims made here are just opinions. IDI also claim the Rs did NOT commit the crime. Since no one truly knows here (as far as we know), that would be a lie as well, if the reverse were true. No one here has a right to call anyone else here a liar, because none of us were there.

NO ONE calls my friend Ames a liar and gets away with it. So let me say this: something is only a lie when the person saying it KNOWS it is not true.

Let me also say that I'm not aware of anyone who claims to have "an inside track" on what happened.

And even among RDI there are wide variations in who, how and when and why.

Not that you'd know it listening to SOME. (Whistles innocently)

This is a wild idea- a nod to the Sci Fi geeks here- wouldn't it be something if one day they will be able to look into a murder victim's eyes and see what they saw? The LAST thing they saw?
I think I'll write a movie script...

OH! Sort of The Dead Zone in reverse! I like it!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

NO ONE calls my friend Ames a liar and gets away with it. So let me say this: something is only a lie when the person saying it KNOWS it is not true.

Who called Ames a liar?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon is too busy researching the significance of Dec. 25th, to waste his time on Michael Kane's thoughts. I am still waiting for Holdon to read J and P's interviews. Which, IMO...is a very nice place to start, if you are seriously wanting to research this case.

I am curious on the pineapple part of the interview. Does PR or JR say where the pineapple came from?

 

[Tadpole12]

Nope, we found it. And I still don't know what you mean by 'broaching this topic in 95'.

hi hotyh.

oh, cool.

broach*: To bring up (a subject) for discussion or debate. To announce: We broached our plans for the new.

*methinks I should retire that word?

I buy crickets.

to share with, of course?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Are you calling me a liar??

I am just telling you what my husband kept saying while watching that show. The term "fat cat" , is a popular saying...it means...people with money. Just like a boss is referred to sometimes, as the "BIG CHEESE". Guess you have never heard THAT term before, either. I don't know if the term Fat cat is used only in the south or not...but, I have heard that term ALL of my life. And I was born and raised in SC...just as Patsy was raised in the south, as well. And I have never even been to the Soviet Union...nor do I have a desire to do so.

The idea that the term 'fat cat' is a 'popular saying used in the south' is your claim. Further, that it means simply 'people with money' is simplistic. I hope you don't mind if I instead look for a vernacular more suited to the rest of the ransom note? I mean, I'm getting no 'female' or 'southerner' from the ransom note whatsoever.

 

[Ames]

Who called Ames a liar?

You did...

Here is your quote to me, after I asked you if you were calling me a liar...


FROM HOLDONTOYOURHAT....

" If you go on a public website and claim a specific person killed their kid when you don't really know, then aren't you lying?

Thats the nice thing about IDI, you don't have to make such claims."

 

[Ames]

NO ONE calls my friend Ames a liar and gets away with it. So let me say this: something is only a lie when the person saying it KNOWS it is not true.

Awwwww...thanks darlin', I am glad to have you on my side!!! :blowkiss:

 

[Ames]

I am curious on the pineapple part of the interview. Does PR or JR say where the pineapple came from?

Holdon, I really can't remember word for word...but, I will find it for you and get back to ya.

Do me a favor....humor me, will ya? Click on this FFJ link, it will take you to a thread that I started about Patsy's interview and inconsistancies. I have one on John too, if you are interested. There is some questioning about the pineapple bowl on the first page of the threads. Do me a favor though, would you just read through the whole thread, it is NOT very long.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8589&highlight=patsy%27s+interview

 

[Ames]

The idea that the term 'fat cat' is a 'popular saying used in the south' is your claim. Further, that it means simply 'people with money' is simplistic. I hope you don't mind if I instead look for a vernacular more suited to the rest of the ransom note? I mean, I'm getting no 'female' or 'southerner' from the ransom note whatsoever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_cat_(term)

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fat-cat

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Thanks Ames I found some stuff:

2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.
7 TOM HANEY: What store did you buy this from?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Safeway is usually where I buy
9 it from.
10 TOM HANEY: It is the fresh pineapple that
11 they do all the work for you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.


This means that PR didn't believe she 'owned' the pineapple. Like the cord and tape, the pineapple can't be sourced to the house (note to Tadpole, pineapple could've been brought in by an intruder). Interestingly, TH wanted PR to state where she bought 'this' pineapple from, when PR was already clearly speaking in the context of how she 'usually' buys pineapple, not 'this' pineapple. Nowhere does PR indicate she ever bought 'this' pineapple, and nowhere does TH indicate whether the pineapple was fresh or canned. Makes me wonder if the pineapple ever even existed.

It is the fresh pineapple that they do all the work for you?

All the work? Lets see, there's planting, watering, picking, cleaning, inspecting, packing, shipping, unpacking, peeling, cutting, packaging, tagging, and shelving. That work?

Yeah, you know, like a loaf of bread that they do all the work for you by mixing, baking and slicing it... Like a lb of hamburger, like 'ground' coffee, like a fish filet.



22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?
0480
1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it
0481
1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.


PR was asking appropriate question, involving herself in the investigation of the murder of her daughter by asking 'did you fingerprint that'. This likely is something somebody who had forgotten about the pineapple bowl evidence would never do.

Instead of getting a prompt, honest answer like "your prints were there but nobody elses," and explaining "your prints would be expected on all your dishes regardless of who murdered your daughter" TH seems to attempt to throw PR off balance and play on her ignorance. He likely knew at the time that a bowl sourced to the house is going to have household members fingerprints on it.

That always happens when the bowl goes from the dishwasher to the cabinet.

Its like you're a secretary in an office, and you're suspected in an office burglary because only your fingerprints were found on the typewriter that was stolen from your desk. How stupid is that?

 

[Tadpole12]

Holdon, I really can't remember word for word...but, I will find it for you and get back to ya.

Do me a favor....humor me, will ya? Click on this FFJ link, it will take you to a thread that I started about Patsy's interview and inconsistancies. I have one on John too, if you are interested. There is some questioning about the pineapple bowl on the first page of the threads. Do me a favor though, would you just read through the whole thread, it is NOT very long.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8589&highlight=patsy's+interview

Hey, ty Ames.
It's not easy to remember everything.
The kleenex?

 

[Tadpole12]

Hey Hotyh.

Dole pineapplecup?

ummm .... wasn't there a photo of the said bowl, was the bowl recently returned to the Ramseys?

 

[Ames]

Thanks Ames I found some stuff:

2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.
7 TOM HANEY: What store did you buy this from?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Safeway is usually where I buy
9 it from.
10 TOM HANEY: It is the fresh pineapple that
11 they do all the work for you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.


This means that PR didn't believe she 'owned' the pineapple. Like the cord and tape, the pineapple can't be sourced to the house (note to Tadpole, pineapple could've been brought in by an intruder). Interestingly, TH wanted PR to state where she bought 'this' pineapple from, when PR was already clearly speaking in the context of how she 'usually' buys pineapple, not 'this' pineapple. Nowhere does PR indicate she ever bought 'this' pineapple, and nowhere does TH indicate whether the pineapple was fresh or canned. Makes me wonder if the pineapple ever even existed.

It is the fresh pineapple that they do all the work for you?

All the work? Lets see, there's planting, watering, picking, cleaning, inspecting, packing, shipping, unpacking, peeling, cutting, packaging, tagging, and shelving. That work?

Yeah, you know, like a loaf of bread that they do all the work for you by mixing, baking and slicing it... Like a lb of hamburger, like 'ground' coffee, like a fish filet.



22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?
0480
1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it
0481
1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.



PR was asking appropriate question, involving herself in the investigation of the murder of her daughter by asking 'did you fingerprint that'. This likely is something somebody who had forgotten about the pineapple bowl evidence would never do.

Instead of getting a prompt, honest answer like "your prints were there but nobody elses," and explaining "your prints would be expected on all your dishes regardless of who murdered your daughter" TH seems to attempt to throw PR off balance and play on her ignorance. He likely knew at the time that a bowl sourced to the house is going to have household members fingerprints on it.

That always happens when the bowl goes from the dishwasher to the cabinet.

Its like you're a secretary in an office, and you're suspected in an office burglary because only your fingerprints were found on the typewriter that was stolen from your desk. How stupid is that?

You are welcome!

The bowl that had Patsy's fingerprints on it, contained the last food that JB had eaten before she died. Yes, the pineapple existed...it was found undigested inside of JB. It was consistant, down to the rind of the pineapple that was found in the bowl. If someone had of snuck into an office and had typed a confession about a killing, on a typewriter, and using the secretary's stationery, and had left it in the typewriter, it stands to reason that the secretary that worked in that office would be one of the suspects.

 

[Ames]

Hey, ty Ames.
It's not easy to remember everything.
The kleenex?

Yeah, the " intruder" left his Kleenex box behind.

 

[Ames]

Hey Hotyh.

Dole pineapplecup?

ummm .... wasn't there a photo of the said bowl, was the bowl recently returned to the Ramseys?

Yes, there was a photo of it. Patsy (or John) originally denied owning it, and then finally said YES, it was theirs.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You are welcome!

The bowl that had Patsy's fingerprints on it, contained the last food that JB had eaten before she died. Yes, the pineapple existed...it was found undigested inside of JB. It was consistant, down to the rind of the pineapple that was found in the bowl. If someone had of snuck into an office and had typed a confession about a killing, on a typewriter, and using the secretary's stationery, and had left it in the typewriter, it stands to reason that the secretary that worked in that office would be one of the suspects.

It does stand to reason for the secretary to be a suspect. It does NOT stand to reason that the secretary would be investigated to the exclusion of other suspects. The secretary may be a suspect, but an implausible suspect because it is not plausible that a secretary would use her own stuff to create that confession.



20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.

By this reasoning, all a criminal has to do is wear gloves and LE will default to the item owner?

Somebody had to move the bowl from the dishwasher to the cabinet. Somebody else may have moved it to get to something else. There is no significance to PR's fingerprints on the bowl. Not unlike your post, LE used PR's ignorance on this to bully, to make her feel guilty for the presense of her own fingerprints on her property! Naturally her fingerprints are on her property! What would be wierd is if no fingerprints were found on that bowl. There had to be PR or JR fingerprints on ALL their dishes! Duh, hello??

While he was at it, he made her feel guilty for 'usually' buying cut fresh pineapple, letting them to 'all the work' for her. The whole interview was whipping a guilt trip on PR, a victim in this crime. She wanted to be a participant in the investigation, instead she was treated as the prime suspect.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You are welcome!

The bowl that had Patsy's fingerprints on it, contained the last food that JB had eaten before she died. Yes, the pineapple existed...it was found undigested inside of JB. It was consistant, down to the rind of the pineapple that was found in the bowl. If someone had of snuck into an office and had typed a confession about a killing, on a typewriter, and using the secretary's stationery, and had left it in the typewriter, it stands to reason that the secretary that worked in that office would be one of the suspects.

Was it canned or fresh?

Of course, this doesn't prove the pineapple was ever owned by the Ramseys. RDI has no evidence that PR ever bought, owned, or ate the same pineapple. Was there a can, a bag, rind, or anthing found in the garbage? LE saved and checked the garbage, right? Did JR, BR, or anyone remember seeing any pineapple?

No, no, and no.

The pineapple then falls into the 'unsourced to the house' class, same as the cord and tape, only they left the uneaten pineapple behind.