jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

[swedie]

I can't find the link, but I thought MR said through his tears when arrested ...

"I didn't do anything", but on WS, I have read ...

"I didn't do it".

Is there any clarification for his statement. Thanks.

Looking for the link Rose but I do recall it was reported as such. Here's part of the report. HTH.

According to Global Toronto, Rafferty broke down sobbing in court early Wednesday and said: "I didn't do .... Victoria Stafford was reported missing on April 8, 2009 and last seen ...

 

[Wondergirl]

A few people now have mentioned here how they think MR is "fugly, a "fatso" and other names in regards to how he looks. I'm not really sure of
of the relevance? Do people somehow think that being ugly and fat makes one look more guilty? Or maybe it's difficult for people to ignore the
misconception that people who commit these types of crimes don't look like the guy next door? If MR is guilty, he certainly doesn't fit the stereotypical idea of the neighbourhood pedophile, nor the "boogeyman".

I can understand the questioning of his recent haircut, I doubt it's so that he can't be recognized at a later date because no doubt the media do their best to get photos of him, if he is acquitted he may want to alter his appearance, and rightly so.

Why is it that no one is questioning TLM's appearance? The photo of her at the Super 8 doesn't exactly make her look like the "pretty little number" that MR allegedly is to have said. What about her appearance now? Is the pretty bob haircut and glasses a way to make her appear more innocent, naive and demure? If it is, it sure isn't working with me.

MOO

BBM: I wonder if TLM is similar in appearance to MTR's other girlfriends? I don't know if there were ever any pictures of his former girlfriends, maybe just interviews in the articles?

It may show that he had a "type" of look for girls that he liked, and may further show they were indeed an item, along with all the other indicators (video, witnesses etc.)


JMO

 

[matou]

BBM: I wonder if TLM is similar in appearance to MTR's other girlfriends? I don't know if there were ever any pictures of his former girlfriends, maybe just interviews in the articles?

It may show that he had a "type" of look for girls that he liked, and may further show they were indeed an item, along with all the other indicators (video, witnesses etc.)


JMO

How did he act around her when he visited her in Genest Detention center? Did others there witness them acting like bf/gf? JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

Since we are on the subject of appearances, it wouldn't have been a bad idea for Derstine to have someone consult MTR, former fashion guru, on his appearance, IMO.

A cardigan and a "softer" look might have went a little further with the jury for appearances, than an "ill fitting suit". I have seen that comment reported by more than one reporter, so, it may actually be true!

JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

How did he act around her when he visited her in Genest Detention center? Did others there witness them acting like bf/gf? JMO

It would be interesting to know in general what she told other inmates about MTR or how she acted after his visits, but right now I'm wondering about anything she might have said specifically about the status of their relationship.

 

[matou]

At 0:58 you can see TLM getting out of the passenger side of the car just as someone returns to their car which is parked right NEXT to MR's car.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-mcclintics-journals-shown-to-court/article2369933/

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Since we are on the subject of appearances, it wouldn't have been a bad idea for Derstine to have someone consult MTR, former fashion guru, on his appearance, IMO.

A cardigan and a "softer" look might have went a little further with the jury for appearances, than an "ill fitting suit". I have seen that comment reported by more than one reporter, so, it may actually be true!

JMO

I agree. Clothes are something the defence has more control over than the jailhouse barber or cuisine.

 

[matou]

This video shows the Esso footage.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...llance-video-in-stafford-case/article2361397/

 

[swedie]

Something just crossed my mind that could be very telling in who bludgeoned Tori with the hammer. I assume TLM is the one who wrote in her journal about what she would tell LE should they question her about Tori's disappearance. TLM's writing style is very much the style of a left handed person. She slants her letters back. I would like to know which hand is MR's dominant hand. Most people are right handed. If TLM was to establish (reenact) for LE where she was standing, where MR was standing, and the position of Tori, lying on the ground, forensic experts would be able to determine who used the hammer and who was the one who stomped on Tori. Unless her remains were so badly decomposed my theory might not work. Anyone has thoughts on this possibility?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-mcclintics-journals-shown-to-court/article2369933/

 

[antiquegirl]

BBM: I wonder if TLM is similar in appearance to MTR's other girlfriends? I don't know if there were ever any pictures of his former girlfriends, maybe just interviews in the articles?

It may show that he had a "type" of look for girls that he liked, and may further show they were indeed an item, along with all the other indicators (video, witnesses etc.)


JMO

My impression from these trial Tweets is that listing MR as her boyfriend and mother's care giver was TLM's only way to get visitors' approval from the detention centre.

.James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

McClintic told authorities that #rafferty was helping her take care of her mom to get him on approved contact list.

Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews /

McClintic says she got #Rafferty on her contact list at London detention centre by listing him as her boyfriend. Only connection with mom.

This application form and his visits would be enough to give LE and the media that first impression that they were a serious item. Exchanging a hug during those visits would reinforce that idea, although, who wouldn't under the circumstances?

JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Something just crossed my mind that could be very telling in who bludgeoned Tori with the hammer. I assume TLM is the one who wrote in her journal about what she would tell LE should they question her about Tori's disappearance. TLM's writing style is very much the style of a left handed person. She slants her letters back. I would like to know which hand is MR's dominant hand. Most people are right handed. If TLM was to establish (reenact) for LE where she was standing, where MR was standing, and the position of Tori, lying on the ground, forensic experts would be able to determine who used the hammer and who was the one who stomped on Tori. Unless her remains were so badly decomposed my theory might not work. Anyone has thoughts on this possibility?

I'd wondered the exact same thing, except I hadn't taken it so far as to consider the whole right hand/left hand aspect of it. I had only considered where MTR and TLM were possibly standing in relationship to each other and Tori based on TLM's testimony. I wondered if it were possible, based on damage done to Tori's skull, to determine the trajectory of the hammer. Sorry to have to mention something like that.

 

[flipflop]

Something just crossed my mind that could be very telling in who bludgeoned Tori with the hammer. I assume TLM is the one who wrote in her journal about what she would tell LE should they question her about Tori's disappearance. TLM's writing style is very much the style of a left handed person. She slants her letters back. I would like to know which hand is MR's dominant hand. Most people are right handed. If TLM was to establish (reenact) for LE where she was standing, where MR was standing, and the position of Tori, lying on the ground, forensic experts would be able to determine who used the hammer and who was the one who stomped on Tori. Unless her remains were so badly decomposed my theory might not work. Anyone has thoughts on this possibility?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-mcclintics-journals-shown-to-court/article2369933/

From watching the date video of TLM and MR, he uses his right hand. He is holding his coffee in his right hand, the clerk hands him the sheet of paper, he grabs it with his left hand sets his coffee down and switches the paper to his right hand.

 

[antiquegirl]

I agree. Clothes are something the defence has more control over than the jailhouse barber or cuisine.

I agree, too. I can't imagine that TLM has ever worn a beige cardigan and high heels before in her entire life. But that's JMO.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ing-tori-stafford-with-hammer/article2367559/''

 

[maxfactor]

At 0:58 you can see TLM getting out of the passenger side of the car just as someone returns to their car which is parked right NEXT to MR's car.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-mcclintics-journals-shown-to-court/article2369933/

I wonder if LE was able to locate that person to be a witness to who was driving the car.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I agree, too. I can't imagine that TLM has ever worn a beige cardigan and high heels before in her entire life. But that's JMO.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ing-tori-stafford-with-hammer/article2367559/''

Lol, without a doubt. TLM is not on trial, but how a witness presents to the jury matters too. Since TLM is so important to the Crown's case I think there's some obvious image management going on there.

 

[flipflop]

Something just crossed my mind that could be very telling in who bludgeoned Tori with the hammer. I assume TLM is the one who wrote in her journal about what she would tell LE should they question her about Tori's disappearance. TLM's writing style is very much the style of a left handed person. She slants her letters back. I would like to know which hand is MR's dominant hand. Most people are right handed. If TLM was to establish (reenact) for LE where she was standing, where MR was standing, and the position of Tori, lying on the ground, forensic experts would be able to determine who used the hammer and who was the one who stomped on Tori. Unless her remains were so badly decomposed my theory might not work. Anyone has thoughts on this possibility?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-mcclintics-journals-shown-to-court/article2369933/

In the home depot pics/video TLM uses her right hand when scanning the hammer at the check out. She is also carrying the bag of purchases with her right hand.

The hand writing in the journal seems to match with the writing on the detailed maps of the murder site. IMO TLM wrote both!

 

[daisy.faithfull]

In the home depot pics/video TLM uses her right hand when scanning the hammer at the check out. She is also carrying the bag of purchases with her right hand.

So if both of them are right handed and the two were facing each other it's likely that which side of the skull was hit by the hammer could tell us who swung it, if TLM is being truthful regarding her description of where they were standing.

 

[antiquegirl]

From watching the date video of TLM and MR, he uses his right hand. He is holding his coffee in his right hand, the clerk hands him the sheet of paper, he grabs it with his left hand sets his coffee down and switches the paper to his right hand.

It seems that TLM is also right-handed. In the Home Depot check out, she uses her right hand to punch the necessary info into the machine. She then walks out carrying the bag in her right hand.

http://www.lfpress.com/video/1508251643001

ETA: Sorry, Flip. Our posts crossed.

 

[roseofsharon]

Here's a former girlfriend MR lived with. Hope it is okay to post.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7XesJOsnnk"]Who are Michael Rafferty & Terri-Lynne McClintic? - Suspects in tori's murder - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Desdemona]

Actually, he would have waited longer. Tori was pushed into his car at 3:32 or 3:33 pm and the Home Depot purchase was at 5:12 pm. It was 50 minutes later that they arrived at the location at Mount Forest, (based on the 50 minutes from the Guelph Home Depot that LE was asking people to check their properties). That means the arrival time was 6:02 pm. So he waited over 2 and a half hours to rape Tori. No, we don't know it for a fact yet. JMO

Ah, yes, thank you for responding.

[BTW, I'm thinking LE could have gotten the 50-minute radius from cell phone pings, or LTM's story, or both, or other factors we don't know about yet. I believe the drive from Home Depot in Guelph to the remains site is one hour even (per Googlemaps and my understanding of the locations). There are alleged reports of MR being a habitual speeder, though.]

--

However, I must apologize for my unclear query re whether we "really know this for a fact" (in response to your OP about him "waiting"). I wasn't actually asking about how long it took to arrive at the murder site.

To clarify: My speculation was not about how long he waited to sexually assault poor little Tori, but rather whether he actually did wait.

Could TLM have altered the story? Is it possible that Tori was actually assaulted immediately or very shortly after her abduction, and then assaulted again later, just before she was killed at the disposal site? Just something I've pondered.

Evidence/testimony to come will surely nail down the timeline -- and may rule out the possibility of her having been assaulted any time prior to their arrival in Guelph to obtain the implements of her death and disposal.

TLM's testimony about Tori begging her by the rock pile not to let him do it again -- and TLM's incomprehensible lack of mercy -- is so tragic and haunting. :cry:

May there be Justice for Victoria.