Just a theory about JBR case

[Ponytale]

Hi! I already posted my theory as a comment on another post and I don't know if it is allowed to post it twice (if not, please remove), but I decided to post it as a new topic as I wrote quite a long post and would love to keep track on the comments.

Here are my thoughts about what happened that night and why. Thank you for taking the time to read it. =)
I apologize beforehand if my English is not perfect, as it is not my native language. But here it goes.

I start by saying I am a 100% RDI believer and have always been through all the years I have read about this case and followed here on Websleuths. It is just because I have not seen any actual clear evidence of an intruder.

Please remember that this theory below is just my opinion.

I’d like to put my theory in a form of a story to help express my ideas better.

I happen to believe that the case itself is actually quite simple. It is us that tend to overthink and complicate things more than needed. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, as we do have to look at all the details and consider all the facts to get to the right conclusion. But, nevertheless, we should think about what are the things that are worth the time and effort and what are the things that really won’t make any difference in solving this case.




My theory is that the Ramsey's went out to dinner that night and arrived home about the same time they said they did. The family probably was excited after the party, and I believe the kids in the car were bubbly and excited about their presents and the upcoming trip. Patsy and John maybe were even a little stressed as they had to get up early in the morning and had things on their minds about all that still had to be done to be prepared. Why do I think that? Because to me it is just simple and logical. As a mother myself, I can easily put myself in that situation, driving home from a Christmas party and having the kids on the backseat of the car all excited and chatty and myself with my husband talking about the details and stuff that has to do with the early morning trip.

So I believe they just drove home like a regular family, and all were up and had things on their minds. It doesn’t really matter if JonBenet had fallen asleep in the car and John walked her upstairs or not. It doesn’t change anything because we already know that JB was up at some point in that night. And we also know that John and Patsy lied about many things, so it wouldn’t matter if they also lied about this or not.

If she was asleep in the car, she might have woken up the moment when John took her in his arms from the car. She might have woken up as they walked to the house. She might have woken up when she was put to bed. She might have woken up when Burke woke her up for whatever reason. She might have slept and woken up on her own at some point later. We do not know that, and as I said, I think this is one thing that we tend to overthink, as in the overall crime itself this does not change anything.

So after arriving at home, Burke wanted to assemble the toy he had gotten for Christmas, as any child would. He probably had that on his mind and was set to do it. Patsy maybe continued to pack up some things to take along for the trip in the morning and was fussing around in the house. I really don’t see John packing or organiseing for the upcoming trip, so he probably had nothing better to do and went to help Burke with his toy. Why do I think that? Again, because it is simple and logical scenario. If I put myself in that situation where I have a 9-year-old son who really wants to spend some time with his Christmas present, I would let him. And also I wouldn’t have time to argue with him about it being busy myself, so I would just let him do it and maybe even ask my husband to go help him so that he could go to bed soon.

As a quite pedantic mom myself, even I still would have last-minute things to think of and pack up, and I wouldn’t leave them to be done in the early morning hours when everyone is sleepy and we’d have to fuss to get everything in the car and the kids ready to leave. So I have a hard time believing that Patsy had everything planned, packed, and ready to go before they went out for the party that night. Just by knowing how chaotic their house was.

Now JB. Already up or woken up, she also would be excited about the Christmas presents and was probably playing with something she had gotten for Christmas. I really have a hard time believing that the only gifts JonBenet got that morning were the bike and My Twin Doll (I know about the jewelry, but I don’t think JB would play with or really care about them that night). Looking at the photos, there are multiple wrapped gifts under the tree in the living room, and I believe there were some more toys for JB and Burke. So I see JonBenet playing with something she had gotten there or from the Whites party, and Burke was playing with his gift he was eager to assemble.

I think that at some point while playing with their toys, one of them yelled for Mom to come and fix them a snack as they were hungry. Maybe Burke asked Patsy, and JonBenet heard it and replied, “Yeah, me too!” or vice versa. Why? Because I again see that situation as plausible and normal. Maybe Patsy was even in the kitchen at that point packing something up in there, so she grabbed out a bowl of pineapple from the fridge that she had put in there before they left for the Whites. Maybe she even didn’t think about it or register it as she did it; she might just continued with her thoughts on getting things together and placed the bowl on the counter instinctivly and continued on whatever she was doing.

At some point Burke came to the kitchen and saw a bowl of pineapple placed on the counter and asked or shouted for her mom “Is this the snack I can eat?” and Patsy replied “Yes”. So he got himself a spoon from the kitchen drawer, grabbed the bowl and went to the dining room. I doubt he sat and ate there for a long period of time. I’d rather see him scoop up a few bites and run off to play again. As JB was hungry too she also ran by the dining room and had a bite or two herself using her fingers and also ran off again.

Patsy continued her packing upstairs and did not have her attention to the kids and what they were doing downstairs. Maybe she even asked John to help and carry some bags to the garage to put them ready in the car for the morning drive to the airport. Again, just a simple and logical scenario that I see happening.


With parents minding their own business, JB and Burke were left alone and at some point got to some sort of situation that ended with Burke hitting JB on the head with the maglite.
Here again is a place where we tend to overthink. Did it happen because JB stole pineapple? Did it happen because they had an argument or a fight? Did it happen because Burke was angry at her for something? Did it happen because Burke just desided to see what would happen if he swung the maglight to her head? We do not know, and again it really does not matter if we believe that Burke is the one who hit her in the head. Kids get in all sorts of misunderstandings. There was some reason that made Burke very angry, and in that moment, in that fit of rage, he grabbed the flashlight and just hit her without any thinking. They may even have played with the flashlight before that or maybe Burke was holding the flashlight and flickering with the light when they got to that situation. We do not know, and again it doesn’t change anything in the outcome.

And just like that, I think that it also does not matter where exactly in that house it happened. In my scenario it happened somewhere downstairs, as they were eating the snack there.

When Burke hit her, she fell down immediately and lost all consciousness. As Patsy and John were upstairs, they did not know anything about what had happened. Burke did not mean to kill her or even think that it would happen. I think that he watched her falling on the floor and was shocked. Maybe he tried to wake her up by shaking

her with his hands or leg, asking her to get up. As it didn’t happen, he got more and more scared and decided to poke her with something (train tracks, a stun gun, or something else that was available) to get her up and screaming.

I do not know what was used that made those marks on her body. I know about the stun gun and train track theories. I believe that if it was the stun gun, then she definitely was dead when it was used, because otherwise she would have screamed, jumped, and moved enough to not get those perfect marks. One idea that I have is that maybe the stun gun was kept somewhere in the kitchen, and Burke just took it and tried it on her to see if she would wake up. I see no reason why he would not know how to use one if one was available in the house. Or even if he didn’t, he just figured it out on the go.

As she was braindead, she did not react to the stun gun when he put it to her back, and so Burke may have held just one clamp of it against her skin for a longer period of time to leave the big burnt mark on her cheek. I really do not know if it was a stun gun or not, but somehow I also do not see the train tracks leaving the big burnt-looking mark on her cheek. It is still possible that the device used is something else. We do not know, and again, it is something that does not change the outcome; nevertheless, what was used that made those marks on her. In my theory the only reason for those marks to be there is cause someone wanted her reaction to wake her up and I don’t see Patsy or John doing something like that just to wake her up.

After a little time had already passed and Burke came to the understanding that this situation is over his head and probably panic had set in him, he yelled for Patsy or John to come.

I see him here as the little boy that he was, who did not mean for this to happen this way. I see him crying and nervous when Patsy or John or both of them arrive at the scene and screaming at him asking what happened. Just as a guilty boy who knows his parents would be angry and who is trying to explain away what exactly happened and that he was sorry and didn’t mean to, being very upset. If John got there first, he yelled for Patsy to come, and if Patsy was the first, she would yell for John.

Why do I think that? Because I would see that happening in that situation as a parent. There is no reason why one would hide it from another at this point because it is just an accident. I believe that Burke was honest and told them through his crying and shock what exactly happened and John and Patsy, at the same time they were listening, were on the ground with JB, trying to wake her up and starting to panic themselves.

They would probably send Burke away to his room as he would cry and need attention that Patsy and John would not be able to give him at this point. They understand that the situation is severe and send him away to go calm down. And I believe that is what he did.

I see him walking upstairs, crying and distraught, and going to his bed sobbing and afraid to move, thinking about what he had done and if JB will wake up or not. Hearing his mom crying and praying downstairs and John calling for JonBenet's name to wake her up. And in my theory, I believe that he stayed in his bed for the whole night. Whether sleeping or not, I don’t know. But I do not think that he actually believed or was told by the parents that JB was dead. Unless he asked his parents himself in disbelief when they arrived at the scene – “Is she dead???” He was 9. He thought that she had passed out from the blow or was just in a coma for some time and hoped that she would wake up soon and mom and dad would fix it. Just like the last time with the golf club accident.

At some point at night in his bed, he may have fallen asleep and was woken by the “act” of her mother screaming, “Oh my god,” to rehearse for the 911 call that she was just about to make (or was already making). Something must have woke him up to come out of his bed and head downstairs to see what was happening. In his last memory from the kitchen, Mom and Dad were “helping” JB to wake up, and he hoped it was already all fixed and life would go on as normal. He came down to Patsy panicking on the phone, and after hearing Patsy say, “Just found the note…“ he genuinely asked his dad, “What did you find?” As he did not know anything about any note and what it was. John replied to him, “We are not speaking to you,” as they weren’t speaking to him and sent him back to his bed and asked him to stay there so that he would not ask any more questions. He obeyed because he understood that JB was missing, his parents seemed distraught, and something totally different had occurred that night that he had no idea about.

I also believe that this is why they sent him away to the Whites a couple of hours later straight from his room. He really did not know about the staging part or kidnapping part or anything that Patsy and John had done at night. All he remembered was that he hit his sister, and she fell, and Mom and Dad tried to wake her up, and he hoped that everything would be ok.

So when he heard about the kidnapping, he, still as a 9-year-old boy, believed it. His parents told him that JB had been taken. He did not know what happened after he went to bed. Patsy and John might have told him that JB woke up later that night after the accident and she was ok and went to bed, then they also went to bed, and an intruder broke into their home and kidnapped her. Why wouldn’t he believe his parents?

As parents who did all this to cover up for their child, I believe that they did not tell him that JB did die after he hit her on the head. Why would they tell him that? I could rather see them both answering NO to his question, “Did I kill my sister?” And I think he has asked that later in life. And there is a possibility that to this day he still does not know for sure how big of a part he played in all of this. Patsy and John probably made each other promise that they will never discuss or answer for anything that really happened that night. All they told him was that he can never talk about the “accident” that had happened before with the flashlight and if someone should imply to him that he killed her with the blow to the head, that simply just is not true. If his parents both repeatedly told him from the young age that JB woke up after the accident and everything was ok, he just might have believed that and that is why he has always answered that he did not kill his sister. Maybe he still likes to belive that it’s the truth even to this day, although I would guess he would have his doubts by now. If he does, he just goes along and plays the role of an innocent child that he has adapted to, because I believe John and all the lawyers have told him multiple times that this is in his best interest to no raise any questions.

Now what did Patsy and John do after they sent Burke to bed? I have not seen anyone entertaining the idea that maybe one of the reasons why they both decided to cover up the crime is that they really did not want their son to grow up knowing that he killed his sister when he was 9. That he is a murderer and responsible for a crime. To have this stigma to send his whole life. To always have to explain that he did not mean to do it, and be part of the never-ending scrutiny. As they were a respected and well known family in Boulder, they also had the same thoughts about themselves and their loved ones. If you think about it, even if you can explain it all away with an accident and you know that Burke is only nine and could not be prosecuted, you’d still have the permanent stain on your family's name. People asking, watching, blaming. Why did you let this happen? Where were you when this happened? Letting it all be public and not sealing the medical records would raise even more questions about Burke's past behavior. You’d have to live with the never-ending shadow of guilt and shame. Are they the family who would want that negative attention? I really do not see that.

What I believe is that as they sent Burke away to bed, their panic had set in as they saw that JB was not responding or waking up. As her breathing was probably shallow and her body was slowly shutting down from the excessive brain injury, they were trying to think what to do. I really see one of them thinking about calling 911, but as they start to understand that there is nothing that medics could do for her at this point, as Burke told them that he hit her on the head with the flashlight, they must have asked him how and where. Any parent would. And I could imagine that as they were trying to figure out the severity of her situation, they must have touched her scalp with their fingers and felt that there is a fracture and a hole underneath the skin. Why do I think that? As a parent, when my child has an accident and bumps their head, the first thing I do when they come to me is ask them where it hurts, and I touch the head to see if there is a bump to put ice on it.

So as Patsy and John knew that Burke had hit her on the head, I see that they or one of them also searched with their fingers if there is a bump from that blow, but they did not feel a bump but a fracture. So no 911. And I think that they really believed that she had already passed away from the blow because there were no visible signs of life for a period of time.

Now, it is a long story in writing, but if you think about this scenario in real life, all this to happen might take only 30-60 minutes from the time they came home to the accident to happen. Kids ate their snack and played with toys, Patsy packing around the house. So if they got home around 22, the accident might have happened an hour later. Maybe less, maybe more; it does not matter, as it does not change anything. Burke was sent to bed and had time to fall asleep, and Patsy and John had at least 6 hours to go from shock and panic to collect themselves, talk it all through, and come up with a solution that they saw as best for their family—hiding it all away. Why?

• So that Burke would never know for sure and never have to grow up knowing that he is responsible for murdering his sister.
• So that they all could be and stay the victims, not criminals.
• So that they would never have to feel the shame and guilt of being the parents of a child who killed his sister at 9 years old and have their reputation and life destroyed.
• So that the previous sexual abuse could be explained away.

Regarding the sexual abuse, I believe something of this kind was happening to her. But… who did it, when they did it, how long they had done it… again does not really matter. We know that there was something done to her, as there was blood that was wiped away from her thighs. Do we really know that this bleeding had happened while covering up the crime for sure, i.e staging a sexual assault? Why couldn’t it have happened at the Whites party? Why couldn't it have happened the previous night or before they left for the Whites? Someone could have wiped out her thighs from the blood at the party or at any time between her last bath and that night that she died. We know she did not take a bath at home later that night and that there was no visible blood seen on her thighs (except the little spot on her underpants). So why exactly should we connect the sexual assault with the staging or what evidence we have for that?


What I think is that the staging in the basement happened a few hours after the accident. After they both had gone through the initial shock and realised that this is the reality of the situation. I believe they talked about what to do next and did it all together. Took her little body carfully into the basement and placed her on the carpet. Looking around and thinking on the go, what and how could they use to make it look as a terrible crime. As they came up with the plan to make it look like a crazed monster had entered their house, they knew they had to make it look like a real monster did it, not a 9-year-old child or her loving parents.

I even tend to think that the garroting device was maybe something that was already premade and was just lying around somewhere in the basement. Why? We know Burke was in the Boy Scouts and John had been in the Navy. Burke had to learn about all the different knots and might have had interest in them. I see them both taking time together to practice making knots. I think Burke, as a 9-year-old boy, really liked to learn about the knots. I know my son did at that age and also practiced knots. So maybe they, or Burke himself, made that “garrot” type thing for whatever reason sometime much earlier and just left it there and forgot about it. We know that this knot/device is typically used for moving weights, so it had to have a long cord from one end. Why is it not possible that John saw it in the basement and thought that they could make it as a device to look like she was strangled? They believed that she was already gone and that garrot was exactly that “monster killing device” that they needed to make it look cruel. Exactly thinking because what parent would do that to their child? I see John tying that around her neck as she was lying on her stomach, and he tied it tight to be embedded in her neck and strangled her. Of course it was it was very difficult to do for them because she was their beloved daughter, but they had decided that they had no choice. What might have made it more bearable for them is that they really believed she was dead already. But at that point her heart and breathing really stopped, and this is where the urine stain comes from that is on her long johns and on the carpet at the cellar. A new shock, as they probably did not expect it to happen, believing that she had died before the strangulation. But now it was done…

Patsy brought her favourite blanket and wrapped her in it like a baby because she cared for her and loved her daughter. She was sorry; they both were. I see them both crying, holding her, and apologising to her through the night. They could not place her lying on that cold cement floor. They decided to add the loose binding to her hands and gently placed duct tape on her lips and left her there. Possibly returning some more times to see her and to be with her during that remaining night. After that they still had a few hours to make the ransom note that was needed to make it look like a crazy kidnapping monster had taken and later killed their daughter.

With the ransom note I have two theories. One is that Patsy and John made the text up together and Patsy wrote it down. The other one is that maybe Patsy had some sort of screenplay or a story/text of that kind written somewhere, and she took it as an example, rewrote it, and made adjustments as needed. She did have a mayor in journalism. Why I think that is because of the length of it. To me, it just seems like it is something that was put together from multiple pieces of text that were just rewritten and rephrased, not necessarily made up on the go. Why not just write a short ransom note? It would serve the same purpose. I see only reason to add confusion with the length and all the unnecessary details. Or that Patsy was left to do it alone and got carried away… but again, it does not matter and won’t change anything.


When the morning came they desided to call for friends to come to their house because they did not want o be and feel alone at this terrible time. Then needed someone to colsole and be there to vitness the dreadfullness of the situation with them. So that none of their friends could never ever think that Patsy and John could be inolved in any way, because they were so distraught, shocked and praying for JB. They also called the priest because they knew that they would need him to be there soon, as the body was going to be found. There is no other logical reason to call a priest to a kidnapping where a child is just missing.


I believe that they did not worry about Burke going to the Whites is because if he did not know what had happened he could not talk about anything. They also knew that there is no kindnapper so Burke was safe. Again a point of thinking logically. As a parent, when one of my child has gone missing I would never let my other kids out of my sight because I would just be paranoid that anyone, anywhere could be the kidnapper. They would be sitting in the same room with me so that I could see them all the time. They would not be going to any fiends house or to school a few days later. Patsy's and Johns behavior clearly shows that had nothing to worry about regarding Burkes safety or what he might ask or say other than JB is missing, cause that is all he knows.

Maybe Patsy and John knew that he would not tell about hitting JB with the flashlight because he was shamed and afraid of telling. Kids don’t usually go bragging about something like that, they’d be ashamed and afraid what others might think of that. At 9 (almost 10) years old I see that. And even if he did talk to his friends about that he had hit JB and she fell, they knew that they told Burke that she woke up and everything was ok, so he’d say the same thing to his friend. That would make the accident a totally separate story from the kidnapping. Of course they later learned that JB suffered a massive head blow before or at the time of her death and I believe that is why the Whites have later acted the way they did.


Well, that’s my two cents.
Thank you for taking the time to read it and I would love to read your thoughts about my theory.

 

[DoctorRose]

I’ve considered this possibility before. I think it makes sense of a lot of things although there are still some loose ends for me.

 

[docyabut]

Hi! I already posted my theory as a comment on another post and I don't know if it is allowed to post it twice (if not, please remove), but I decided to post it as a new topic as I wrote quite a long post and would love to keep track on the comments.

Here are my thoughts about what happened that night and why. Thank you for taking the time to read it. =)
I apologize beforehand if my English is not perfect, as it is not my native language. But here it goes.

I start by saying I am a 100% RDI believer and have always been through all the years I have read about this case and followed here on Websleuths. It is just because I have not seen any actual clear evidence of an intruder.

Please remember that this theory below is just my opinion.

I’d like to put my theory in a form of a story to help express my ideas better.

I happen to believe that the case itself is actually quite simple. It is us that tend to overthink and complicate things more than needed. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, as we do have to look at all the details and consider all the facts to get to the right conclusion. But, nevertheless, we should think about what are the things that are worth the time and effort and what are the things that really won’t make any difference in solving this case.




My theory is that the Ramsey's went out to dinner that night and arrived home about the same time they said they did. The family probably was excited after the party, and I believe the kids in the car were bubbly and excited about their presents and the upcoming trip. Patsy and John maybe were even a little stressed as they had to get up early in the morning and had things on their minds about all that still had to be done to be prepared. Why do I think that? Because to me it is just simple and logical. As a mother myself, I can easily put myself in that situation, driving home from a Christmas party and having the kids on the backseat of the car all excited and chatty and myself with my husband talking about the details and stuff that has to do with the early morning trip.

So I believe they just drove home like a regular family, and all were up and had things on their minds. It doesn’t really matter if JonBenet had fallen asleep in the car and John walked her upstairs or not. It doesn’t change anything because we already know that JB was up at some point in that night. And we also know that John and Patsy lied about many things, so it wouldn’t matter if they also lied about this or not.

If she was asleep in the car, she might have woken up the moment when John took her in his arms from the car. She might have woken up as they walked to the house. She might have woken up when she was put to bed. She might have woken up when Burke woke her up for whatever reason. She might have slept and woken up on her own at some point later. We do not know that, and as I said, I think this is one thing that we tend to overthink, as in the overall crime itself this does not change anything.

So after arriving at home, Burke wanted to assemble the toy he had gotten for Christmas, as any child would. He probably had that on his mind and was set to do it. Patsy maybe continued to pack up some things to take along for the trip in the morning and was fussing around in the house. I really don’t see John packing or organiseing for the upcoming trip, so he probably had nothing better to do and went to help Burke with his toy. Why do I think that? Again, because it is simple and logical scenario. If I put myself in that situation where I have a 9-year-old son who really wants to spend some time with his Christmas present, I would let him. And also I wouldn’t have time to argue with him about it being busy myself, so I would just let him do it and maybe even ask my husband to go help him so that he could go to bed soon.

As a quite pedantic mom myself, even I still would have last-minute things to think of and pack up, and I wouldn’t leave them to be done in the early morning hours when everyone is sleepy and we’d have to fuss to get everything in the car and the kids ready to leave. So I have a hard time believing that Patsy had everything planned, packed, and ready to go before they went out for the party that night. Just by knowing how chaotic their house was.

Now JB. Already up or woken up, she also would be excited about the Christmas presents and was probably playing with something she had gotten for Christmas. I really have a hard time believing that the only gifts JonBenet got that morning were the bike and My Twin Doll (I know about the jewelry, but I don’t think JB would play with or really care about them that night). Looking at the photos, there are multiple wrapped gifts under the tree in the living room, and I believe there were some more toys for JB and Burke. So I see JonBenet playing with something she had gotten there or from the Whites party, and Burke was playing with his gift he was eager to assemble.

I think that at some point while playing with their toys, one of them yelled for Mom to come and fix them a snack as they were hungry. Maybe Burke asked Patsy, and JonBenet heard it and replied, “Yeah, me too!” or vice versa. Why? Because I again see that situation as plausible and normal. Maybe Patsy was even in the kitchen at that point packing something up in there, so she grabbed out a bowl of pineapple from the fridge that she had put in there before they left for the Whites. Maybe she even didn’t think about it or register it as she did it; she might just continued with her thoughts on getting things together and placed the bowl on the counter instinctivly and continued on whatever she was doing.

At some point Burke came to the kitchen and saw a bowl of pineapple placed on the counter and asked or shouted for her mom “Is this the snack I can eat?” and Patsy replied “Yes”. So he got himself a spoon from the kitchen drawer, grabbed the bowl and went to the dining room. I doubt he sat and ate there for a long period of time. I’d rather see him scoop up a few bites and run off to play again. As JB was hungry too she also ran by the dining room and had a bite or two herself using her fingers and also ran off again.

Patsy continued her packing upstairs and did not have her attention to the kids and what they were doing downstairs. Maybe she even asked John to help and carry some bags to the garage to put them ready in the car for the morning drive to the airport. Again, just a simple and logical scenario that I see happening.


With parents minding their own business, JB and Burke were left alone and at some point got to some sort of situation that ended with Burke hitting JB on the head with the maglite.
Here again is a place where we tend to overthink. Did it happen because JB stole pineapple? Did it happen because they had an argument or a fight? Did it happen because Burke was angry at her for something? Did it happen because Burke just desided to see what would happen if he swung the maglight to her head? We do not know, and again it really does not matter if we believe that Burke is the one who hit her in the head. Kids get in all sorts of misunderstandings. There was some reason that made Burke very angry, and in that moment, in that fit of rage, he grabbed the flashlight and just hit her without any thinking. They may even have played with the flashlight before that or maybe Burke was holding the flashlight and flickering with the light when they got to that situation. We do not know, and again it doesn’t change anything in the outcome.

And just like that, I think that it also does not matter where exactly in that house it happened. In my scenario it happened somewhere downstairs, as they were eating the snack there.

When Burke hit her, she fell down immediately and lost all consciousness. As Patsy and John were upstairs, they did not know anything about what had happened. Burke did not mean to kill her or even think that it would happen. I think that he watched her falling on the floor and was shocked. Maybe he tried to wake her up by shaking

her with his hands or leg, asking her to get up. As it didn’t happen, he got more and more scared and decided to poke her with something (train tracks, a stun gun, or something else that was available) to get her up and screaming.

I do not know what was used that made those marks on her body. I know about the stun gun and train track theories. I believe that if it was the stun gun, then she definitely was dead when it was used, because otherwise she would have screamed, jumped, and moved enough to not get those perfect marks. One idea that I have is that maybe the stun gun was kept somewhere in the kitchen, and Burke just took it and tried it on her to see if she would wake up. I see no reason why he would not know how to use one if one was available in the house. Or even if he didn’t, he just figured it out on the go.

As she was braindead, she did not react to the stun gun when he put it to her back, and so Burke may have held just one clamp of it against her skin for a longer period of time to leave the big burnt mark on her cheek. I really do not know if it was a stun gun or not, but somehow I also do not see the train tracks leaving the big burnt-looking mark on her cheek. It is still possible that the device used is something else. We do not know, and again, it is something that does not change the outcome; nevertheless, what was used that made those marks on her. In my theory the only reason for those marks to be there is cause someone wanted her reaction to wake her up and I don’t see Patsy or John doing something like that just to wake her up.

After a little time had already passed and Burke came to the understanding that this situation is over his head and probably panic had set in him, he yelled for Patsy or John to come.

I see him here as the little boy that he was, who did not mean for this to happen this way. I see him crying and nervous when Patsy or John or both of them arrive at the scene and screaming at him asking what happened. Just as a guilty boy who knows his parents would be angry and who is trying to explain away what exactly happened and that he was sorry and didn’t mean to, being very upset. If John got there first, he yelled for Patsy to come, and if Patsy was the first, she would yell for John.

Why do I think that? Because I would see that happening in that situation as a parent. There is no reason why one would hide it from another at this point because it is just an accident. I believe that Burke was honest and told them through his crying and shock what exactly happened and John and Patsy, at the same time they were listening, were on the ground with JB, trying to wake her up and starting to panic themselves.

They would probably send Burke away to his room as he would cry and need attention that Patsy and John would not be able to give him at this point. They understand that the situation is severe and send him away to go calm down. And I believe that is what he did.

I see him walking upstairs, crying and distraught, and going to his bed sobbing and afraid to move, thinking about what he had done and if JB will wake up or not. Hearing his mom crying and praying downstairs and John calling for JonBenet's name to wake her up. And in my theory, I believe that he stayed in his bed for the whole night. Whether sleeping or not, I don’t know. But I do not think that he actually believed or was told by the parents that JB was dead. Unless he asked his parents himself in disbelief when they arrived at the scene – “Is she dead???” He was 9. He thought that she had passed out from the blow or was just in a coma for some time and hoped that she would wake up soon and mom and dad would fix it. Just like the last time with the golf club accident.

At some point at night in his bed, he may have fallen asleep and was woken by the “act” of her mother screaming, “Oh my god,” to rehearse for the 911 call that she was just about to make (or was already making). Something must have woke him up to come out of his bed and head downstairs to see what was happening. In his last memory from the kitchen, Mom and Dad were “helping” JB to wake up, and he hoped it was already all fixed and life would go on as normal. He came down to Patsy panicking on the phone, and after hearing Patsy say, “Just found the note…“ he genuinely asked his dad, “What did you find?” As he did not know anything about any note and what it was. John replied to him, “We are not speaking to you,” as they weren’t speaking to him and sent him back to his bed and asked him to stay there so that he would not ask any more questions. He obeyed because he understood that JB was missing, his parents seemed distraught, and something totally different had occurred that night that he had no idea about.

I also believe that this is why they sent him away to the Whites a couple of hours later straight from his room. He really did not know about the staging part or kidnapping part or anything that Patsy and John had done at night. All he remembered was that he hit his sister, and she fell, and Mom and Dad tried to wake her up, and he hoped that everything would be ok.

So when he heard about the kidnapping, he, still as a 9-year-old boy, believed it. His parents told him that JB had been taken. He did not know what happened after he went to bed. Patsy and John might have told him that JB woke up later that night after the accident and she was ok and went to bed, then they also went to bed, and an intruder broke into their home and kidnapped her. Why wouldn’t he believe his parents?

As parents who did all this to cover up for their child, I believe that they did not tell him that JB did die after he hit her on the head. Why would they tell him that? I could rather see them both answering NO to his question, “Did I kill my sister?” And I think he has asked that later in life. And there is a possibility that to this day he still does not know for sure how big of a part he played in all of this. Patsy and John probably made each other promise that they will never discuss or answer for anything that really happened that night. All they told him was that he can never talk about the “accident” that had happened before with the flashlight and if someone should imply to him that he killed her with the blow to the head, that simply just is not true. If his parents both repeatedly told him from the young age that JB woke up after the accident and everything was ok, he just might have believed that and that is why he has always answered that he did not kill his sister. Maybe he still likes to belive that it’s the truth even to this day, although I would guess he would have his doubts by now. If he does, he just goes along and plays the role of an innocent child that he has adapted to, because I believe John and all the lawyers have told him multiple times that this is in his best interest to no raise any questions.

Now what did Patsy and John do after they sent Burke to bed? I have not seen anyone entertaining the idea that maybe one of the reasons why they both decided to cover up the crime is that they really did not want their son to grow up knowing that he killed his sister when he was 9. That he is a murderer and responsible for a crime. To have this stigma to send his whole life. To always have to explain that he did not mean to do it, and be part of the never-ending scrutiny. As they were a respected and well known family in Boulder, they also had the same thoughts about themselves and their loved ones. If you think about it, even if you can explain it all away with an accident and you know that Burke is only nine and could not be prosecuted, you’d still have the permanent stain on your family's name. People asking, watching, blaming. Why did you let this happen? Where were you when this happened? Letting it all be public and not sealing the medical records would raise even more questions about Burke's past behavior. You’d have to live with the never-ending shadow of guilt and shame. Are they the family who would want that negative attention? I really do not see that.

What I believe is that as they sent Burke away to bed, their panic had set in as they saw that JB was not responding or waking up. As her breathing was probably shallow and her body was slowly shutting down from the excessive brain injury, they were trying to think what to do. I really see one of them thinking about calling 911, but as they start to understand that there is nothing that medics could do for her at this point, as Burke told them that he hit her on the head with the flashlight, they must have asked him how and where. Any parent would. And I could imagine that as they were trying to figure out the severity of her situation, they must have touched her scalp with their fingers and felt that there is a fracture and a hole underneath the skin. Why do I think that? As a parent, when my child has an accident and bumps their head, the first thing I do when they come to me is ask them where it hurts, and I touch the head to see if there is a bump to put ice on it.

So as Patsy and John knew that Burke had hit her on the head, I see that they or one of them also searched with their fingers if there is a bump from that blow, but they did not feel a bump but a fracture. So no 911. And I think that they really believed that she had already passed away from the blow because there were no visible signs of life for a period of time.

Now, it is a long story in writing, but if you think about this scenario in real life, all this to happen might take only 30-60 minutes from the time they came home to the accident to happen. Kids ate their snack and played with toys, Patsy packing around the house. So if they got home around 22, the accident might have happened an hour later. Maybe less, maybe more; it does not matter, as it does not change anything. Burke was sent to bed and had time to fall asleep, and Patsy and John had at least 6 hours to go from shock and panic to collect themselves, talk it all through, and come up with a solution that they saw as best for their family—hiding it all away. Why?

• So that Burke would never know for sure and never have to grow up knowing that he is responsible for murdering his sister.
• So that they all could be and stay the victims, not criminals.
• So that they would never have to feel the shame and guilt of being the parents of a child who killed his sister at 9 years old and have their reputation and life destroyed.
• So that the previous sexual abuse could be explained away.

Regarding the sexual abuse, I believe something of this kind was happening to her. But… who did it, when they did it, how long they had done it… again does not really matter. We know that there was something done to her, as there was blood that was wiped away from her thighs. Do we really know that this bleeding had happened while covering up the crime for sure, i.e staging a sexual assault? Why couldn’t it have happened at the Whites party? Why couldn't it have happened the previous night or before they left for the Whites? Someone could have wiped out her thighs from the blood at the party or at any time between her last bath and that night that she died. We know she did not take a bath at home later that night and that there was no visible blood seen on her thighs (except the little spot on her underpants). So why exactly should we connect the sexual assault with the staging or what evidence we have for that?


What I think is that the staging in the basement happened a few hours after the accident. After they both had gone through the initial shock and realised that this is the reality of the situation. I believe they talked about what to do next and did it all together. Took her little body carfully into the basement and placed her on the carpet. Looking around and thinking on the go, what and how could they use to make it look as a terrible crime. As they came up with the plan to make it look like a crazed monster had entered their house, they knew they had to make it look like a real monster did it, not a 9-year-old child or her loving parents.

I even tend to think that the garroting device was maybe something that was already premade and was just lying around somewhere in the basement. Why? We know Burke was in the Boy Scouts and John had been in the Navy. Burke had to learn about all the different knots and might have had interest in them. I see them both taking time together to practice making knots. I think Burke, as a 9-year-old boy, really liked to learn about the knots. I know my son did at that age and also practiced knots. So maybe they, or Burke himself, made that “garrot” type thing for whatever reason sometime much earlier and just left it there and forgot about it. We know that this knot/device is typically used for moving weights, so it had to have a long cord from one end. Why is it not possible that John saw it in the basement and thought that they could make it as a device to look like she was strangled? They believed that she was already gone and that garrot was exactly that “monster killing device” that they needed to make it look cruel. Exactly thinking because what parent would do that to their child? I see John tying that around her neck as she was lying on her stomach, and he tied it tight to be embedded in her neck and strangled her. Of course it was it was very difficult to do for them because she was their beloved daughter, but they had decided that they had no choice. What might have made it more bearable for them is that they really believed she was dead already. But at that point her heart and breathing really stopped, and this is where the urine stain comes from that is on her long johns and on the carpet at the cellar. A new shock, as they probably did not expect it to happen, believing that she had died before the strangulation. But now it was done…

Patsy brought her favourite blanket and wrapped her in it like a baby because she cared for her and loved her daughter. She was sorry; they both were. I see them both crying, holding her, and apologising to her through the night. They could not place her lying on that cold cement floor. They decided to add the loose binding to her hands and gently placed duct tape on her lips and left her there. Possibly returning some more times to see her and to be with her during that remaining night. After that they still had a few hours to make the ransom note that was needed to make it look like a crazy kidnapping monster had taken and later killed their daughter.

With the ransom note I have two theories. One is that Patsy and John made the text up together and Patsy wrote it down. The other one is that maybe Patsy had some sort of screenplay or a story/text of that kind written somewhere, and she took it as an example, rewrote it, and made adjustments as needed. She did have a mayor in journalism. Why I think that is because of the length of it. To me, it just seems like it is something that was put together from multiple pieces of text that were just rewritten and rephrased, not necessarily made up on the go. Why not just write a short ransom note? It would serve the same purpose. I see only reason to add confusion with the length and all the unnecessary details. Or that Patsy was left to do it alone and got carried away… but again, it does not matter and won’t change anything.


When the morning came they desided to call for friends to come to their house because they did not want o be and feel alone at this terrible time. Then needed someone to colsole and be there to vitness the dreadfullness of the situation with them. So that none of their friends could never ever think that Patsy and John could be inolved in any way, because they were so distraught, shocked and praying for JB. They also called the priest because they knew that they would need him to be there soon, as the body was going to be found. There is no other logical reason to call a priest to a kidnapping where a child is just missing.


I believe that they did not worry about Burke going to the Whites is because if he did not know what had happened he could not talk about anything. They also knew that there is no kindnapper so Burke was safe. Again a point of thinking logically. As a parent, when one of my child has gone missing I would never let my other kids out of my sight because I would just be paranoid that anyone, anywhere could be the kidnapper. They would be sitting in the same room with me so that I could see them all the time. They would not be going to any fiends house or to school a few days later. Patsy's and Johns behavior clearly shows that had nothing to worry about regarding Burkes safety or what he might ask or say other than JB is missing, cause that is all he knows.

Maybe Patsy and John knew that he would not tell about hitting JB with the flashlight because he was shamed and afraid of telling. Kids don’t usually go bragging about something like that, they’d be ashamed and afraid what others might think of that. At 9 (almost 10) years old I see that. And even if he did talk to his friends about that he had hit JB and she fell, they knew that they told Burke that she woke up and everything was ok, so he’d say the same thing to his friend. That would make the accident a totally separate story from the kidnapping. Of course they later learned that JB suffered a massive head blow before or at the time of her death and I believe that is why the Whites have later acted the way they did.


Well, that’s my two cents.
Thank you for taking the time to read it and I would love to read your thoughts about my theory.

So interesting

 

[Swirlz]

John Ramsey's fibers were found located in his daughter's vaginal folds and underpants crotch.

Patsy's fibers were found inside the knot of the ligature found tied around her daughter's neck.

Both the only member of law enforcement present at the time the body was recovered from the basement and the investigator who took over for her as lead detective believed a parent was responsible for sexual abuse and murder.

Detective Linda Arndt, the first detective to arrive on the scene was present both at the time the body was recovered and at the autopsy. Arndt was an experienced sex crimes investigator. She stated her belief in a 2000 sworn deposition that she believed John Ramsey sexually abused and killed JonBenet and that Patsy participated in staging. She implied that the Boulder department of social services agreed with her conclusion.

A 9 yr. old child had NOTHING to do with what happened.

 

[Ponytale]

A 9 yr. old child had NOTHING to do with what happened.

You can't know that as a fact. What I posted was just my theory and I happen to believe that a 9 year old child had something to do with it.

 

[Swirlz]

You can't know that as a fact. What I posted was just my theory and I happen to believe that a 9 year old child had something to do with it.

O.k., but to get to Burke being responsible for SA and murder, you have to explain John's fibers linking him to sexual assault. How did John manage to clean JBR well enough to remove Burke's fibers but then manage to leave his own fibers? How did Patsy's fibers get into the ligature knot? How did multiple trained investigators fail to identify Burke as the party responsible for SA and murder. How in particular did Steve Thomas who watched Burke's interviews from behind glass not spot deception or come away believing Burke was guilty and how did the child psychologist, Susanne Bernhard, not conclude her interview believing Burke was the perpetrator?

 

[ilovewings]

John Ramsey's fibers were found located in his daughter's vaginal folds and underpants crotch.

Patsy's fibers were found inside the knot of the ligature found tied around her daughter's neck.

Both the only member of law enforcement present at the time the body was recovered from the basement and the investigator who took over for her as lead detective believed a parent was responsible for sexual abuse and murder.

Detective Linda Arndt, the first detective to arrive on the scene was present both at the time the body was recovered and at the autopsy. Arndt was an experienced sex crimes investigator. She stated her belief in a 2000 sworn deposition that she believed John Ramsey sexually abused and killed JonBenet and that Patsy participated in staging. She implied that the Boulder department of social services agreed with her conclusion.

A 9 yr. old child had NOTHING to do with what happened.

I have not followed this thread much, but if what you say is true, that Patsy's fibers were found inside the knot of the ligature found tied around her daughter's neck and
John's fibers were found in his daughter's vaginal folds and underpants crotch why weren't they arrested and charged with murder?

 

[CloudedTruth]

I have not followed this thread much, but if what you say is true, that Patsy's fibers were found inside the knot of the ligature found tied around her daughter's neck and
John's fibers were found in his daughter's vaginal folds and underpants crotch why weren't they arrested and charged with murder?

The fiber evidence is circumstantial, especially in consideration of the fact that this was in the Ramsey home where one would expect to find Ramsey DNA and clothing fibers. Is it suspicious? Yes, possibly. But it isn't indisputable evidence that proves guilt. A good defense attorney would rip that to shreds in a trial.

 

[Ponytale]

O.k., but to get to Burke being responsible for SA and murder, you have to explain John's fibers linking him to sexual assault. How did John manage to clean JBR well enough to remove Burke's fibers but then manage to leave his own fibers? How did Patsy's fibers get into the ligature knot? How did multiple trained investigators fail to identify Burke as the party responsible for SA and murder. How in particular did Steve Thomas who watched Burke's interviews from behind glass not spot deception or come away believing Burke was guilty and how did the child psychologist, Susanne Bernhard, not conclude her interview believing Burke was the perpetrator?

If you read my theory correctly, I never wrote I believe that Burke is responsible for SA. I also questioned the timing of the SA, stating that it might not be connected to the crime itself as we have no knowing of the exact timing when it took place. I also wrote that I believe that it was not an intentional murder committed by a 9 year old, but an accident that the parents chose to cover up.

O.k., but to get to Burke being responsible for SA and murder, you have to explain John's fibers linking him to sexual assault.

I explain John's and Patsy's fibers being on her body and clothes by them covering up the crime and by them living in the house with her. They handled her clothes and her body. Fibers are easy to transfer. What is the evidence of John's fibers being on her vaginal folds and underpants crotch that links those fibers to SA exactly? If I dry up my son after him bathing this evening with me having my clothes on at the time, and help dress him, I can safely assume that fibers from my clothing transfer to his body. So I can believe parents DNA or clothing fibers can be on the body of their child without any SA. So the fibers on private parts, for me, do not link anyone to sexual assault.

How did John manage to clean JBR well enough to remove Burke's fibers but then manage to leave his own fibers?

IMO John did not manage to remove Burke's fibers because they were not there to be removed. He left his own because at some point he had been in some contact with JBR. Was it because of precious SA or something as simple as helping her dress or handle her underpants, we do not know. Were they left there at the time of the staging or before the accident, we also do not know.

How did Patsy's fibers get into the ligature knot?

IMO same as John's. She was also present at the home and had a part in the staging. We do not know for a fact that the fibers were transferred to the ligature because Patsy 100% was the one who tied the knot and strangled her. There is also a possibility that the fibers from her clothing transferred to her neck when she was holding and caressing her when she was trying to wake her up after the accident. Or was looking for the possible bump on her head. Or was listening if she was breathing. Or was feeling for her pulse on her neck. There are a multiple of reasons why her fibers could have been on her neck and gotten tangled in the knot.

How did multiple trained investigators fail to identify Burke as the party responsible for SA and murder.

Again, if you head read my theory, I have never written that Burke was in any way responsible for SA.
Neither have I written that it was a murder. I see it as an accident.
I also know of investigators who have been quite certain that Burke has played a big part in this crime. Investigators are humans as we all are. We all have our opinions. And until someone has finally been proven guilty, we all have just theories of what happened and who did it, based on our experiences and emotional sates.

How in particular did Steve Thomas who watched Burke's interviews from behind glass not spot deception or come away believing Burke was guilty and how did the child psychologist, Susanne Bernhard, not conclude her interview believing Burke was the perpetrator?

I already wrote about it in my theory as well.

 

[lonetraveler]

Hi! I already posted my theory as a comment on another post and I don't know if it is allowed to post it twice (if not, please remove), but I decided to post it as a new topic as I wrote quite a long post and would love to keep track on the comments.

Here are my thoughts about what happened that night and why. Thank you for taking the time to read it. =)
I apologize beforehand if my English is not perfect, as it is not my native language. But here it goes.

I start by saying I am a 100% RDI believer and have always been through all the years I have read about this case and followed here on Websleuths. It is just because I have not seen any actual clear evidence of an intruder.

Please remember that this theory below is just my opinion.

I’d like to put my theory in a form of a story to help express my ideas better.

I happen to believe that the case itself is actually quite simple. It is us that tend to overthink and complicate things more than needed. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, as we do have to look at all the details and consider all the facts to get to the right conclusion. But, nevertheless, we should think about what are the things that are worth the time and effort and what are the things that really won’t make any difference in solving this case.




My theory is that the Ramsey's went out to dinner that night and arrived home about the same time they said they did. The family probably was excited after the party, and I believe the kids in the car were bubbly and excited about their presents and the upcoming trip. Patsy and John maybe were even a little stressed as they had to get up early in the morning and had things on their minds about all that still had to be done to be prepared. Why do I think that? Because to me it is just simple and logical. As a mother myself, I can easily put myself in that situation, driving home from a Christmas party and having the kids on the backseat of the car all excited and chatty and myself with my husband talking about the details and stuff that has to do with the early morning trip.

So I believe they just drove home like a regular family, and all were up and had things on their minds. It doesn’t really matter if JonBenet had fallen asleep in the car and John walked her upstairs or not. It doesn’t change anything because we already know that JB was up at some point in that night. And we also know that John and Patsy lied about many things, so it wouldn’t matter if they also lied about this or not.

If she was asleep in the car, she might have woken up the moment when John took her in his arms from the car. She might have woken up as they walked to the house. She might have woken up when she was put to bed. She might have woken up when Burke woke her up for whatever reason. She might have slept and woken up on her own at some point later. We do not know that, and as I said, I think this is one thing that we tend to overthink, as in the overall crime itself this does not change anything.

So after arriving at home, Burke wanted to assemble the toy he had gotten for Christmas, as any child would. He probably had that on his mind and was set to do it. Patsy maybe continued to pack up some things to take along for the trip in the morning and was fussing around in the house. I really don’t see John packing or organiseing for the upcoming trip, so he probably had nothing better to do and went to help Burke with his toy. Why do I think that? Again, because it is simple and logical scenario. If I put myself in that situation where I have a 9-year-old son who really wants to spend some time with his Christmas present, I would let him. And also I wouldn’t have time to argue with him about it being busy myself, so I would just let him do it and maybe even ask my husband to go help him so that he could go to bed soon.

As a quite pedantic mom myself, even I still would have last-minute things to think of and pack up, and I wouldn’t leave them to be done in the early morning hours when everyone is sleepy and we’d have to fuss to get everything in the car and the kids ready to leave. So I have a hard time believing that Patsy had everything planned, packed, and ready to go before they went out for the party that night. Just by knowing how chaotic their house was.

Now JB. Already up or woken up, she also would be excited about the Christmas presents and was probably playing with something she had gotten for Christmas. I really have a hard time believing that the only gifts JonBenet got that morning were the bike and My Twin Doll (I know about the jewelry, but I don’t think JB would play with or really care about them that night). Looking at the photos, there are multiple wrapped gifts under the tree in the living room, and I believe there were some more toys for JB and Burke. So I see JonBenet playing with something she had gotten there or from the Whites party, and Burke was playing with his gift he was eager to assemble.

I think that at some point while playing with their toys, one of them yelled for Mom to come and fix them a snack as they were hungry. Maybe Burke asked Patsy, and JonBenet heard it and replied, “Yeah, me too!” or vice versa. Why? Because I again see that situation as plausible and normal. Maybe Patsy was even in the kitchen at that point packing something up in there, so she grabbed out a bowl of pineapple from the fridge that she had put in there before they left for the Whites. Maybe she even didn’t think about it or register it as she did it; she might just continued with her thoughts on getting things together and placed the bowl on the counter instinctivly and continued on whatever she was doing.

At some point Burke came to the kitchen and saw a bowl of pineapple placed on the counter and asked or shouted for her mom “Is this the snack I can eat?” and Patsy replied “Yes”. So he got himself a spoon from the kitchen drawer, grabbed the bowl and went to the dining room. I doubt he sat and ate there for a long period of time. I’d rather see him scoop up a few bites and run off to play again. As JB was hungry too she also ran by the dining room and had a bite or two herself using her fingers and also ran off again.

Patsy continued her packing upstairs and did not have her attention to the kids and what they were doing downstairs. Maybe she even asked John to help and carry some bags to the garage to put them ready in the car for the morning drive to the airport. Again, just a simple and logical scenario that I see happening.


With parents minding their own business, JB and Burke were left alone and at some point got to some sort of situation that ended with Burke hitting JB on the head with the maglite.
Here again is a place where we tend to overthink. Did it happen because JB stole pineapple? Did it happen because they had an argument or a fight? Did it happen because Burke was angry at her for something? Did it happen because Burke just desided to see what would happen if he swung the maglight to her head? We do not know, and again it really does not matter if we believe that Burke is the one who hit her in the head. Kids get in all sorts of misunderstandings. There was some reason that made Burke very angry, and in that moment, in that fit of rage, he grabbed the flashlight and just hit her without any thinking. They may even have played with the flashlight before that or maybe Burke was holding the flashlight and flickering with the light when they got to that situation. We do not know, and again it doesn’t change anything in the outcome.

And just like that, I think that it also does not matter where exactly in that house it happened. In my scenario it happened somewhere downstairs, as they were eating the snack there.

When Burke hit her, she fell down immediately and lost all consciousness. As Patsy and John were upstairs, they did not know anything about what had happened. Burke did not mean to kill her or even think that it would happen. I think that he watched her falling on the floor and was shocked. Maybe he tried to wake her up by shaking

her with his hands or leg, asking her to get up. As it didn’t happen, he got more and more scared and decided to poke her with something (train tracks, a stun gun, or something else that was available) to get her up and screaming.

I do not know what was used that made those marks on her body. I know about the stun gun and train track theories. I believe that if it was the stun gun, then she definitely was dead when it was used, because otherwise she would have screamed, jumped, and moved enough to not get those perfect marks. One idea that I have is that maybe the stun gun was kept somewhere in the kitchen, and Burke just took it and tried it on her to see if she would wake up. I see no reason why he would not know how to use one if one was available in the house. Or even if he didn’t, he just figured it out on the go.

As she was braindead, she did not react to the stun gun when he put it to her back, and so Burke may have held just one clamp of it against her skin for a longer period of time to leave the big burnt mark on her cheek. I really do not know if it was a stun gun or not, but somehow I also do not see the train tracks leaving the big burnt-looking mark on her cheek. It is still possible that the device used is something else. We do not know, and again, it is something that does not change the outcome; nevertheless, what was used that made those marks on her. In my theory the only reason for those marks to be there is cause someone wanted her reaction to wake her up and I don’t see Patsy or John doing something like that just to wake her up.

After a little time had already passed and Burke came to the understanding that this situation is over his head and probably panic had set in him, he yelled for Patsy or John to come.

I see him here as the little boy that he was, who did not mean for this to happen this way. I see him crying and nervous when Patsy or John or both of them arrive at the scene and screaming at him asking what happened. Just as a guilty boy who knows his parents would be angry and who is trying to explain away what exactly happened and that he was sorry and didn’t mean to, being very upset. If John got there first, he yelled for Patsy to come, and if Patsy was the first, she would yell for John.

Why do I think that? Because I would see that happening in that situation as a parent. There is no reason why one would hide it from another at this point because it is just an accident. I believe that Burke was honest and told them through his crying and shock what exactly happened and John and Patsy, at the same time they were listening, were on the ground with JB, trying to wake her up and starting to panic themselves.

They would probably send Burke away to his room as he would cry and need attention that Patsy and John would not be able to give him at this point. They understand that the situation is severe and send him away to go calm down. And I believe that is what he did.

I see him walking upstairs, crying and distraught, and going to his bed sobbing and afraid to move, thinking about what he had done and if JB will wake up or not. Hearing his mom crying and praying downstairs and John calling for JonBenet's name to wake her up. And in my theory, I believe that he stayed in his bed for the whole night. Whether sleeping or not, I don’t know. But I do not think that he actually believed or was told by the parents that JB was dead. Unless he asked his parents himself in disbelief when they arrived at the scene – “Is she dead???” He was 9. He thought that she had passed out from the blow or was just in a coma for some time and hoped that she would wake up soon and mom and dad would fix it. Just like the last time with the golf club accident.

At some point at night in his bed, he may have fallen asleep and was woken by the “act” of her mother screaming, “Oh my god,” to rehearse for the 911 call that she was just about to make (or was already making). Something must have woke him up to come out of his bed and head downstairs to see what was happening. In his last memory from the kitchen, Mom and Dad were “helping” JB to wake up, and he hoped it was already all fixed and life would go on as normal. He came down to Patsy panicking on the phone, and after hearing Patsy say, “Just found the note…“ he genuinely asked his dad, “What did you find?” As he did not know anything about any note and what it was. John replied to him, “We are not speaking to you,” as they weren’t speaking to him and sent him back to his bed and asked him to stay there so that he would not ask any more questions. He obeyed because he understood that JB was missing, his parents seemed distraught, and something totally different had occurred that night that he had no idea about.

I also believe that this is why they sent him away to the Whites a couple of hours later straight from his room. He really did not know about the staging part or kidnapping part or anything that Patsy and John had done at night. All he remembered was that he hit his sister, and she fell, and Mom and Dad tried to wake her up, and he hoped that everything would be ok.

So when he heard about the kidnapping, he, still as a 9-year-old boy, believed it. His parents told him that JB had been taken. He did not know what happened after he went to bed. Patsy and John might have told him that JB woke up later that night after the accident and she was ok and went to bed, then they also went to bed, and an intruder broke into their home and kidnapped her. Why wouldn’t he believe his parents?

As parents who did all this to cover up for their child, I believe that they did not tell him that JB did die after he hit her on the head. Why would they tell him that? I could rather see them both answering NO to his question, “Did I kill my sister?” And I think he has asked that later in life. And there is a possibility that to this day he still does not know for sure how big of a part he played in all of this. Patsy and John probably made each other promise that they will never discuss or answer for anything that really happened that night. All they told him was that he can never talk about the “accident” that had happened before with the flashlight and if someone should imply to him that he killed her with the blow to the head, that simply just is not true. If his parents both repeatedly told him from the young age that JB woke up after the accident and everything was ok, he just might have believed that and that is why he has always answered that he did not kill his sister. Maybe he still likes to belive that it’s the truth even to this day, although I would guess he would have his doubts by now. If he does, he just goes along and plays the role of an innocent child that he has adapted to, because I believe John and all the lawyers have told him multiple times that this is in his best interest to no raise any questions.

Now what did Patsy and John do after they sent Burke to bed? I have not seen anyone entertaining the idea that maybe one of the reasons why they both decided to cover up the crime is that they really did not want their son to grow up knowing that he killed his sister when he was 9. That he is a murderer and responsible for a crime. To have this stigma to send his whole life. To always have to explain that he did not mean to do it, and be part of the never-ending scrutiny. As they were a respected and well known family in Boulder, they also had the same thoughts about themselves and their loved ones. If you think about it, even if you can explain it all away with an accident and you know that Burke is only nine and could not be prosecuted, you’d still have the permanent stain on your family's name. People asking, watching, blaming. Why did you let this happen? Where were you when this happened? Letting it all be public and not sealing the medical records would raise even more questions about Burke's past behavior. You’d have to live with the never-ending shadow of guilt and shame. Are they the family who would want that negative attention? I really do not see that.

What I believe is that as they sent Burke away to bed, their panic had set in as they saw that JB was not responding or waking up. As her breathing was probably shallow and her body was slowly shutting down from the excessive brain injury, they were trying to think what to do. I really see one of them thinking about calling 911, but as they start to understand that there is nothing that medics could do for her at this point, as Burke told them that he hit her on the head with the flashlight, they must have asked him how and where. Any parent would. And I could imagine that as they were trying to figure out the severity of her situation, they must have touched her scalp with their fingers and felt that there is a fracture and a hole underneath the skin. Why do I think that? As a parent, when my child has an accident and bumps their head, the first thing I do when they come to me is ask them where it hurts, and I touch the head to see if there is a bump to put ice on it.

So as Patsy and John knew that Burke had hit her on the head, I see that they or one of them also searched with their fingers if there is a bump from that blow, but they did not feel a bump but a fracture. So no 911. And I think that they really believed that she had already passed away from the blow because there were no visible signs of life for a period of time.

Now, it is a long story in writing, but if you think about this scenario in real life, all this to happen might take only 30-60 minutes from the time they came home to the accident to happen. Kids ate their snack and played with toys, Patsy packing around the house. So if they got home around 22, the accident might have happened an hour later. Maybe less, maybe more; it does not matter, as it does not change anything. Burke was sent to bed and had time to fall asleep, and Patsy and John had at least 6 hours to go from shock and panic to collect themselves, talk it all through, and come up with a solution that they saw as best for their family—hiding it all away. Why?

• So that Burke would never know for sure and never have to grow up knowing that he is responsible for murdering his sister.
• So that they all could be and stay the victims, not criminals.
• So that they would never have to feel the shame and guilt of being the parents of a child who killed his sister at 9 years old and have their reputation and life destroyed.
• So that the previous sexual abuse could be explained away.

Regarding the sexual abuse, I believe something of this kind was happening to her. But… who did it, when they did it, how long they had done it… again does not really matter. We know that there was something done to her, as there was blood that was wiped away from her thighs. Do we really know that this bleeding had happened while covering up the crime for sure, i.e staging a sexual assault? Why couldn’t it have happened at the Whites party? Why couldn't it have happened the previous night or before they left for the Whites? Someone could have wiped out her thighs from the blood at the party or at any time between her last bath and that night that she died. We know she did not take a bath at home later that night and that there was no visible blood seen on her thighs (except the little spot on her underpants). So why exactly should we connect the sexual assault with the staging or what evidence we have for that?


What I think is that the staging in the basement happened a few hours after the accident. After they both had gone through the initial shock and realised that this is the reality of the situation. I believe they talked about what to do next and did it all together. Took her little body carfully into the basement and placed her on the carpet. Looking around and thinking on the go, what and how could they use to make it look as a terrible crime. As they came up with the plan to make it look like a crazed monster had entered their house, they knew they had to make it look like a real monster did it, not a 9-year-old child or her loving parents.

I even tend to think that the garroting device was maybe something that was already premade and was just lying around somewhere in the basement. Why? We know Burke was in the Boy Scouts and John had been in the Navy. Burke had to learn about all the different knots and might have had interest in them. I see them both taking time together to practice making knots. I think Burke, as a 9-year-old boy, really liked to learn about the knots. I know my son did at that age and also practiced knots. So maybe they, or Burke himself, made that “garrot” type thing for whatever reason sometime much earlier and just left it there and forgot about it. We know that this knot/device is typically used for moving weights, so it had to have a long cord from one end. Why is it not possible that John saw it in the basement and thought that they could make it as a device to look like she was strangled? They believed that she was already gone and that garrot was exactly that “monster killing device” that they needed to make it look cruel. Exactly thinking because what parent would do that to their child? I see John tying that around her neck as she was lying on her stomach, and he tied it tight to be embedded in her neck and strangled her. Of course it was it was very difficult to do for them because she was their beloved daughter, but they had decided that they had no choice. What might have made it more bearable for them is that they really believed she was dead already. But at that point her heart and breathing really stopped, and this is where the urine stain comes from that is on her long johns and on the carpet at the cellar. A new shock, as they probably did not expect it to happen, believing that she had died before the strangulation. But now it was done…

Patsy brought her favourite blanket and wrapped her in it like a baby because she cared for her and loved her daughter. She was sorry; they both were. I see them both crying, holding her, and apologising to her through the night. They could not place her lying on that cold cement floor. They decided to add the loose binding to her hands and gently placed duct tape on her lips and left her there. Possibly returning some more times to see her and to be with her during that remaining night. After that they still had a few hours to make the ransom note that was needed to make it look like a crazy kidnapping monster had taken and later killed their daughter.

With the ransom note I have two theories. One is that Patsy and John made the text up together and Patsy wrote it down. The other one is that maybe Patsy had some sort of screenplay or a story/text of that kind written somewhere, and she took it as an example, rewrote it, and made adjustments as needed. She did have a mayor in journalism. Why I think that is because of the length of it. To me, it just seems like it is something that was put together from multiple pieces of text that were just rewritten and rephrased, not necessarily made up on the go. Why not just write a short ransom note? It would serve the same purpose. I see only reason to add confusion with the length and all the unnecessary details. Or that Patsy was left to do it alone and got carried away… but again, it does not matter and won’t change anything.


When the morning came they desided to call for friends to come to their house because they did not want o be and feel alone at this terrible time. Then needed someone to colsole and be there to vitness the dreadfullness of the situation with them. So that none of their friends could never ever think that Patsy and John could be inolved in any way, because they were so distraught, shocked and praying for JB. They also called the priest because they knew that they would need him to be there soon, as the body was going to be found. There is no other logical reason to call a priest to a kidnapping where a child is just missing.


I believe that they did not worry about Burke going to the Whites is because if he did not know what had happened he could not talk about anything. They also knew that there is no kindnapper so Burke was safe. Again a point of thinking logically. As a parent, when one of my child has gone missing I would never let my other kids out of my sight because I would just be paranoid that anyone, anywhere could be the kidnapper. They would be sitting in the same room with me so that I could see them all the time. They would not be going to any fiends house or to school a few days later. Patsy's and Johns behavior clearly shows that had nothing to worry about regarding Burkes safety or what he might ask or say other than JB is missing, cause that is all he knows.

Maybe Patsy and John knew that he would not tell about hitting JB with the flashlight because he was shamed and afraid of telling. Kids don’t usually go bragging about something like that, they’d be ashamed and afraid what others might think of that. At 9 (almost 10) years old I see that. And even if he did talk to his friends about that he had hit JB and she fell, they knew that they told Burke that she woke up and everything was ok, so he’d say the same thing to his friend. That would make the accident a totally separate story from the kidnapping. Of course they later learned that JB suffered a massive head blow before or at the time of her death and I believe that is why the Whites have later acted the way they did.


Well, that’s my two cents.
Thank you for taking the time to read it and I would love to read your thoughts about my theory.

Wow, I appreciate your putting all this in writing. It is so plausible and meets a lot of my own theories. I'm trying to digest this so I'll be reading this again.

 

[lonetraveler]

John Ramsey's fibers were found located in his daughter's vaginal folds and underpants crotch.

Patsy's fibers were found inside the knot of the ligature found tied around her daughter's neck.

Both the only member of law enforcement present at the time the body was recovered from the basement and the investigator who took over for her as lead detective believed a parent was responsible for sexual abuse and murder.

Detective Linda Arndt, the first detective to arrive on the scene was present both at the time the body was recovered and at the autopsy. Arndt was an experienced sex crimes investigator. She stated her belief in a 2000 sworn deposition that she believed John Ramsey sexually abused and killed JonBenet and that Patsy participated in staging. She implied that the Boulder department of social services agreed with her conclusion.

A 9 yr. old child had NOTHING to do with what happened.

I've always thought that the sexual assault evidence was part of the staging. JMO

 

[Ponytale]

I have not followed this thread much, but if what you say is true, that Patsy's fibers were found inside the knot of the ligature found tied around her daughter's neck and
John's fibers were found in his daughter's vaginal folds and underpants crotch why weren't they arrested and charged with murder?

They were living together in the same house.
All fibers are transferrable. So is the DNA. There can be many different ways that any fibers could have been easily transferred. If one lives in the same household with others and is in contact with other people living there, it is quite certain that they all have some amounts of each others fibers and DNA on them.
As we do not know the time they were transferred nor the way that they were transferred, there is no factual evidence of guilt or foul play.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I have not followed this thread much, but if what you say is true, that Patsy's fibers were found inside the knot of the ligature found tied around her daughter's neck and
John's fibers were found in his daughter's vaginal folds and underpants crotch why weren't they arrested and charged with murder?

Unfortunately @ilovewings ….. I don’t know. But I agree that is a very good question posed there at the end. Maybe it would be best answered by the Boulder DA office IMO? MOO

 

[Swirlz]

why weren't they arrested and charged with murder?

Because the DA was intimidated by John Ramsey's money and by his connections.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Because the DA was intimidated by John Ramsey's money and by his connections.

So very true also IMO @Swirlz ….. and IMO my impression is that any data and new evidence that Mr. Ramsey obtains I surely hope he will share it with the investigating authorities and the district attorneys office. So that they can properly investigate this again. Actually for the first time. And not in a documentary. Other than that, there is nothing more that needs to be said in this miscarriage of justice IMO. MOO

 

[Swirlz]

John was asked extensive questions about whether or not he helped JBR in the bathroom or with dressing that day and he adamantly denied having had that kind of contact with her and Patsy didn't say she recalled him doing this either. Both John and Patsy were asked extensive questions about laundering and both denied the sweater John's fibers in JBR's vulva had been shed from had ever been either worn or laundered before, their position was that the sweater had been taken from straight out of the package.

The fibers that were found INSIDE the ligature knot could NOT have been transferred by Patsy touching or caressing JBR's neck after she'd found the body. Either Patsy tied the knot or handled the cord very shortly before and handed it to the person who did.

No investigator other than James Kolar has ever suggested they believe Burke Ramsey is the perpetrator of this crime. Kolar reviewed evidence while working briefly for the Boulder DA in 2005 and self-published a book titled Foreign Faction.

 

[Ponytale]

John was asked extensive questions about whether or not he helped JBR in the bathroom or with dressing that day and he adamantly denied having had that kind of contact with her and Patsy didn't say she recalled him doing this either. Both John and Patsy were asked extensive questions about laundering and both denied the sweater John's fibers in JBR's vulva had been shed from had ever been either worn or laundered before, their position was that the sweater had been taken from straight out of the package.

And we also know of many times when both John and Patsy have told lies, changed their stories, and had forgotten about things they should have known about. When they say that they "do not recall" something, I can not take it as the truth as there are no facts like photographs or third party statements to support any of this.

The fibers that were found INSIDE the ligature knot could NOT have been transferred by Patsy touching or caressing JBR's neck after she'd found the body. Either Patsy tied the knot or handled the cord very shortly before and handed it to the person who did.

Can you please provide actual official forensic documents that corroborates with the information that there were fibers found inside the ligature knot? And if you do, please explain exactly how is it in any way not possible to have been transferred by Patsy in some simple and logical way, like the ones I described in an above comment?

I have never written that Patsy absolutely did not tie the knot or handled the cord. It is a possibility that she did and I sure believe that she was present at the time of the strangulation. But being present or handling the ligature does not mean for the absolute truth that the fibers got there because she was the one who must have strangled her. If there were any actual fibers there to begin with, as I have not seen any other factual documentation about this than what has been written in Kolar's book.

No investigator other than James Kolar has ever suggested they believe Burke Ramsey is the perpetrator of this crime. Kolar reviewed evidence while working briefly for the Boulder DA in 2005 and self-published a book titled Foreign Faction.

There were also FBI agent Jim Clemente, forensic scientist Dr. Henry Lee, forensic pathologist Dr. Werner Spitz, former FBI agent James R. Fitzgerald, former Scotland Yard criminal behavior analyst Laura Richards, and former FBI agent Stan Burke who all have reviewed the case and formed their opinions. Yes, they were not the investigators on the case, but they are all well respected professionals in their fields whos opinions are not less significant and should also be considered.
Like I wrote before, it all comes down to what one believes.

 

[ilovewings]

The fiber evidence is circumstantial, especially in consideration of the fact that this was in the Ramsey home where one would expect to find Ramsey DNA and clothing fibers. Is it suspicious? Yes, possibly. But it isn't indisputable evidence that proves guilt. A good defense attorney would rip that to shreds in a trial.

yep--- that is definitely the case- that is my point--- where is the direct, or even persuasive circumstantial evidence that John and Patsy are guilty?

 

[Swirlz]

@Ponytale, you're suggesting the R's would lie about evidence that would provide innocent explanations for the fiber transfer? Why would they do that?

Snipped from John and Patsy's 2000 Atlanta interview, Bruce Levin is a prosecutor, unlike the police, lawyers are NOT allowed to lie to a suspect:

Bruce Levin (attorney with the DA's office): Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her [Patsy's] jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is: can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death? And I understand you are not going to answer those.

[...]

MR. LEVIN: I understand your position. In addition to those questions, there are some others that I would like you to think about whether or not we can have Mrs. Ramsey perhaps in the future answer. I understand you are advising her not to today, and those are there are black fibers that, according to our testing that was conducted, that match one of the two shirts that was provided to us by the Ramseys, [John Ramsey's] black shirt. Those are located in the underpants of JonBenet Ramsey, were found in her crotch area, and I believe those are two other areas that we have intended to ask Mrs. Ramsey about if she could help us in explaining their presence in those locations.

(There's also an additional reference I didn't include from the same interview about John's fibers being in, specifically, JBR's underpants crotch.)

If the prosecutor is making this up and again; by law he's not permitted to but if hypothetically, he is, trust me, John's lawyer is going to be loudly DEMANDING a copy of the lab report. John and his attorney don't deny the truth of this but rather, go on to have hissy fits and don't ask to for the lab report to be produced.

And back to Patsy's fibers are described as being tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck. There is an additional source for this in Kolar's book. How can fibers get into, a ligature without the fibers having been shed by the individual who either tied or handled the ligature very shortly before it was tied?

Also, you say Patsy was present during the strangulation. I'm not sure I understand how that would support BDI. Why would Patsy observe Burke strangling JBR?

The CBS series was scripted and was produced for ratings and entertainment purposes.

 

[CloudedTruth]

yep--- that is definitely the case- that is my point--- where is the direct, or even persuasive circumstantial evidence that John and Patsy are guilty?

Oh, I think the circumstantial evidence is persuasive, it's just that it's circumstantial. It was obviously persuasive enough for the GJ to return two true bills for each parent.

On the other side of the coin, where is the direct or persuasive evidence of an intruder? That theory along with very weak, almost non-existent evidence was also presented to the GJ and they didn't find it persuasive at all.