KC's "Brain Development"

[butwhatif?]

Hmmmm....This made me think back to one of the earlier transcripts, where George was being asked about Cindys pregnancy.. ie: If their were any complications, if it had been a c-section etc.

I can't remember now what the answers were. Was it a C-section or complicated birth? Anyone remember which transcript this was in?

My DD has an intellectual disability and at every different appt with specialists I'm asked if there were any pregnancy and/or birth complications, because a major theory is that it stems from a traumatic birth.

I'll have to go back over the transcript if I can find it, because the milestones are significant also. (Age of crawling, walking, talking etc) to see if they can try this one as another mitigating factor.

A couple of things I've noticed could fit a few of the LD's out there (and many have co-morbid issues like anxiety/depression) . ICA's constant fidgeting, 'zoning out', inappropriate reactions/facial expressions are just some of them.
Remember that many people who have LD's are of average to above average intelligence, but they have difficulty with certain academics, and seem to excel in the arts...ICA thought she could be a famous singer one day, didn't she?

Even if ICA is found to have an LD- there are many people who aren't dx'ed until they are adults....and it doesn't make them killers.

JMO

Sorry to quote myself, but I eventually found GA's transcript and by his account, everything was 'normal'.

- Claims CA said ICA's birth was much easier than LA's- no C-sections.
- CA did not drink during the pg.
- Says ICA was a 'healthy, well adjusted, smart child'.
- CA had healthy pg's that went to term.

IMO, this transcript is a must-(re)read to look at what the DT may use as mitigating circumstances since it focuses so much on ICA's early life.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310228/detail.html

When I typed the quoted post I forgot to include I had noticed ICA's odd pencil grip, which is another feature of a LD.
Interestingly there were 3 posts in this mornings jury selection thread that mentioned her 'childish' pencil grip.

ICA may have a LD. The DT may claim that her parents failed her by not getting her the help she needed. But the weight of this as a mitigating factor is lighter than a feather IMO. It's not going to take her far.
JMO

 

[Marina2]

I could care less about Casey's brain or its development of lack of.

This topic brought forth by the defense is just another item they need to try and make it seem she should not be held responsible for Caylee's death. I think presenting this shows me the defense is looking far ahead to the sentencing phase of the trial. Mainly because they are pretty certain their client will be found guilty and they need to gear up now to prevent the jury from voting death.

jmo

Me either. I don't even think it deserves discussion other than in the defense strategy thread under "lame excuses they will use to try and save her life". I'd "consider" it for about a nanosecond.

 

[Panda's eye]

No matter if she was slow or not it really doesn't matter because it NEVER SLOWED CASEY DOWN FROM PARTYING. They are reaching for anything they can.......

I thought it was stated that Casey did well in school. Don't see how they can claim mental slowness, lack of mental function in any areas or the like. she seemed to be alway thinking on her feet, switching, changing and twisting facts and down out creating lies to fit her every move. As Cindy stated Casey was brilliant on the computer....Really. The mental defense as an excuse is really weak.....Just don't see her finishing strong with this lead balloon.......JMO

 

[Knot4u2no]

I haven't read this thread, but the title relates to a now closed thread: What Kind of Defense for Casey in a Trial. On 11-01-08, I made the following post in that thread (same apology stands for this thread):

I haven't had time to read this thread yet, so I apologize if something similar has already been posted.

If I were advising the defense on a strategy to avoid the death penalty, one that that at least one or more members of a jury would buy, I would have Casey have a series of different types of brain scans and find an expert witness to testify that at least one of them indicated damage/underdevelopment of the prefrontal cortex, or at least that such damage could not be ruled-out. The expert would testify that such damage would be consistent with the cognitive-behavioral characteristics of the DSM Cluster B personality disorders (Borderline, Histrionic, Narcissistic, and Antisocial). Given the mere POSSIBILITY of such an underlying physical rationale related to Casey’s lack of a moral compass, the jury may still find her guilty, but is not likely to sentence her to death. Of course, the defense expert witness would cite tons of research about how the prefrontal cortex relates to judgment and impulse control, particularly including substance abuse and sexual acting-out.

Just my opinions.
Russell

Still my opinion,
Russell

 

[sleutherontheside]

My notes....


This is the SA depo transcript......http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310228/detail.html

pg. 24 George commented about why he left LE and went back into family car business..... "Having a son gives you a different perspective on a lot of things. Yeah, you value your life differently when you have children."

Then they ask if Lee was planned and he says "Absolutely".

Then on page 29.......
SA says...Alright and what year was Casey born?
GA: 1986
SA: So she was born while you were still working for your Dad?
GA: Yes, with my father.

Then they go into how GA started his own business after KC was born.

pg 35
SA: Anything at all unusual or difficult about Casey's birth or infancy or those first three years in Ohio?
GA: No she was a very health, well adjusted smart child.
SA: No problems?
GA: No problems.
SA: Any difficulty any ----prenatal issues with Cindy when Casey was---
GA: No, as a matter of fact I remember Cindy even stating to me that when Casey was born--she says she--she was so much easier--easier delivery than it was for Lee.
SA: Yeah
GA: Yeah, it was a lot easier.

Then there is discussion about alcohol consumption between GA and CA. Questions about Cindy's weight during pregnancy. Questions about whether there were concerns about her prenatal habits.

SA: And how long was Casey in the hospital before they sent her home after she was born?

 

[sleutherontheside]

IMO...there is nothing at all wrong with KC's brain or her development. She is a narcissist not disabled.

KC loved drama...she loved being the center of attention. She used drama to redirect attention to her when she started to feel like her "celebrity" was waning.

IMO...the headaches and other immaginary ailments have been part of her repertoire for years. It just so happens that the DT can squeeze them into their theory during mitigation.

I have no doubt that the jail letters where CA asked about KC getting tests and seeking help for ailments were sent to bolster her future story.

JB argued against everything under the sun being released to the public...EXCEPT those darned jail letters. HE HAD NO ISSUE WITH THE LETTERS BEING RELEASED???? Of course not...they were setting up the mitigation STORY...and FICTION it is.

 

[HOTNTX]

KC has not one iota of a mental deficiency. She is a narcissist of the highest order and is "crazy like a fox".

I wish the DT would go back and check the testimony they give about their client. Ann Finnell is trying to drop hints that KC may have every mental disorder known to man, while CM states she is really smart -- bright.

All the prosecution needs to do is refer the jury to all of this dumb mockery of the justice system.

I have never seen a more blatent and dismal defense in my life.

 

[Anais]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet but Jesse Grund insists she was perfectly NORMAL while they were together..It wasn't til after they split up that she changed dramatically..As he has said numerous xs in media interviews "I don't KNOW this Casey".

I have heard of certain mental disorders that sometimes don't show up in a person til around their 20's..Could this possibly be the case with her?

eta..I just watched one of those old JG videos (with NG 2009) yesterday, before I even saw this thread, cos CNN added it (along with NG & Baez from 2008) probably cos of the trial.

Amysmom I have often thought about this and last week or so I listened to Jesse's police interviews and I think what happened is he realized way after the fact what a prolific liar that she was the whole time they were together. He also said he realized that her proficiency to lie was diabolical!

Side note ICA is soooo far from Asperger's. One of my closest friends has a child with this disorder and it is so rough on the whole family!

 

[BigFatMommyDog]

KC has not one iota of a mental deficiency. She is a narcissist of the highest order and is "crazy like a fox".

I wish the DT would go back and check the testimony they give about their client. Ann Finnell is trying to drop hints that KC may have every mental disorder known to man, while CM states she is really smart -- bright.

All the prosecution needs to do is refer the jury to all of this dumb mockery of the justice system.

I have never seen a more blatent and dismal defense in my life.

Remember - AF always prefaces her statements with (paraphrasing) "The burden is on the state - "we" don't have to prove mitigating circumstances..." And the don't. They only have to suggest it as a possible - plant a seed if you will - none of this has to be backed up with much during penalty phase. So there will be lots of hand wringing and gnashing of teeth, but there won't be much behind it.

Always MOO

 

[Pink Panther]

There is discussion elsewhere that the Defence will somehow use Chiari Malformation in their mitigating factors. Apparently they will attempt to propose that Caylee died of this and that ICA also has this condition. Given that she was cremated, it will be impossible to prove whether or not Caylee had this. If they can prove that ICA has it, I'm not sure how it could possibly mitigate her having covered up her daughter's death for 31 days while out dancing.

moo

 

[Pink Panther]

So...Caylee suddenly dies of complications due to Chiari Malformation (I guess possible as she never had a single medical check up after she was born and taken "home"). ICA (who may also suffer from the same condition) is beside herself (given that she is immature, young, raised in an incredibly abusive family) doesn't know what to do. So, in her panick, she decides to try to make it look like her daughter was kidnapped (hence the duct-tape linked to her family's garage)...A BIG stretch so far. But then, the evening that all of this is likely to have happened, she's so stunted mentally that she goes out to rent a movie with one of her many potential marrying material boyfriends of the moment!

Given all the other evidence that we have.

Ok Jose.

Um. You serious? Does anyone else think its possible that the jurors will buy this carp?

moo

 

[Anais]

I think a vast portion of the population has borderline personality disorder to some degree. If they want to use mitigation, they will have to go deeper than that.

As well as Bipolar disorder! Hope they don't pull that out of a hat too.

 

[Anais]

There is discussion elsewhere that the Defence will somehow use Chiari Malformation in their mitigating factors. Apparently they will attempt to propose that Caylee died of this and that ICA also has this condition. Given that she was cremated, it will be impossible to prove whether or not Caylee had this. If they can prove that ICA has it, I'm not sure how it could possibly mitigate her having covered up her daughter's death for 31 days while out dancing.

moo

Nope will not fly, the M.E. would have found this post mortem I believe...or certainly during a health exam. I know I have this. Mine wasn't diagnosed til about 6 years ago. I have had many neurosurgeries.

 

[Pink Panther]

As well as Bipolar disorder! Hope they don't pull that out of a hat too.

I don't believe that they can pull out all disorders. They will have to pick one and defend based on that one. The only one I can think of is Social Personality Disorder (aka Sociopath/Psychopath) and so far as I can see, they will have no luck with that. ROLF.

moo

 

[Pink Panther]

Nope will not fly, the M.E. would have found this post mortem I believe...or certainly during a health exam. I know I have this. Mine wasn't diagnosed til about 6 years ago. I have had many neurosurgeries.

Anais - Given that you know about this condition, do you think that they would have found this post-mortem with only scattered skeletonized remains?

 

[Pink Panther]

Nope will not fly, the M.E. would have found this post mortem I believe...or certainly during a health exam. I know I have this. Mine wasn't diagnosed til about 6 years ago. I have had many neurosurgeries.

If I remember correctly, Caylee was so healthy that she had never been to a Doctor after she was born. (I have my own opinion about how negligent that is but I will refrain.)

So...no "health exam" in existance for Caylee.

moo

 

[Anais]

Anais - Given that you know about this condition, do you think that they would have found this post-mortem with only scattered skeletonized remains?

Yes because her skull would have been smaller and misshapen. My bones in the area of the cella pituitary region are also malformed and I may be confusing the two! I shall ask my neuro surgeon tomorrow when I see him.

Mine is/was severe and required many surgeries.

Here is a link to explain it:

http://www.bing.com/health/article/mayo-126515/Chiari-malformation?q=arnold-chiari+malformation

 

[Pink Panther]

Yes because her skull would have been smaller and misshapen. My bones in the area of the cella pituitary region are also malformed and I may be confusing the two! I shall ask my neuro surgeon tomorrow when I see him.

Mine is/was severe and required many surgeries.

Here is a link to explain it:

http://www.bing.com/health/article/mayo-126515/Chiari-malformation?q=arnold-chiari+malformation

Thank you for your answer and I'm sorry for what you have been through.

ETA - I can't get your link to work!

 

[ladonna]

AF always prefaces her statements with (paraphrasing) "The burden is on the state - "we" don't have to prove mitigating circumstances..." And they don't. They only have to suggest it as a possiblity.

 

[Anais]

Thank you for your answer and I'm sorry for what you have been through.

ETA - I can't get your link to work!

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chiari-malformation/DS00839/DSECTION=symptoms


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chiari-malformation/DS00839

sorry try this one!