Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[Deleted member 296739]

Computing Time. KY Court Orders & Statutes

@Harriett_Eva
"Stupid questions alert"???
No worries. Everybody has 'stupid questions.'
But the subject matters are different for each of us.

W, a quick search, I found in this in KY. statutes, which seems to apply imo:

"446.030 Computation of time."
"(1) (a) In computing any period of time prescribed or allowed by order of court, or by any applicable statute or regulation, the day of the act, event or default after which the designated period of time begins to run is not to be included. The last day of the period so computed is to be included, unless it is a Saturday, a Sunday, a legal holiday, or a day on which the public office in which a document is required to be filed is actually and legally closed, in which event the period runs until the end of the next day which is not one (1) of the days just mentioned. When the period of time prescribed or allowed is less than seven (7) days, intermediate Saturdays, Sundays and legal holidays shall be excluded in the computation.
"(b) When a statute, regulation, or order of court requires an act to be done either a certain time before an event or a certain time before the day on which an event occurs, the day of the event shall be excluded in computing the time. If the day thereby computed on which or by which the act is required to be done falls on a Saturday, Sunday, legal holiday, or a day on which the public office in which the act is required to be completed is actually and legally closed, the act may be done on the next day which is none of the days just mentioned.
"(2) If any proceeding is directed by law to take place, or any act is directed to be done, on a particular day of a month and that day is Sunday, the proceeding shall take place, or the act shall be done, on the next day that is not a legal holiday."

(Please, don't ask me to open a calendar on this. LOL)

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19391#:~:text=Computation%20of%20time.-,(1)%20(a)%20In%20computing%20any%20period%20of%20time,is%20not%20to%20be%20included.

Thanks! Wasn’t exactly sure how to even look it up!
So if the clock started on Oct 2 and 60 days would be Saturday 11/30- it looks like GJ should return by 12/2 at the latest- thank you

 

[OldAce]

Legit question. If the lead detective didn't know (because he wasn't qualified to examine the phone, and the phone records hadn't yet come back from the lab, and the phone itself was at the lab), then how did the 2 other officers know?
I don't think they did. The statement issued was "there is no evidence" that her number was on his phone. Unless one of them checked, there's no way they could have known either way.

jmo

Yes, true as in "There is no evidence a particular weapon fired the shot". Because we have not fired it in a test shot as yet...
We have not seen/examined the phones ourselves. Double speak.. Lots here is being purposefully "clouded" or the floor plan being laid for a cover up of the cause. JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Yes, true as in "There is no evidence a particular weapon fired the shot". Because we have not fired it in a test shot as yet...
We have not seen/examined the phones ourselves. Double speak.. Lots here is being purposefully "clouded" or the floor plan being laid for a cover up of the cause. JMO

I had to go back and refresh my memory of where that info came from:

"While many have interpreted that to mean the number was saved, two separate law enforcement officials with knowledge of what happened said that is not the case. One, who asked not to be identified, said a security video taken from a camera mounted behind Stines near the ceiling in the judge’s office shows Stines punched in the numbers to dial. The other, Kentucky State Police spokesman Trooper Matt Gayheart, confirmed that the number was dialed, and said he knew when the question was asked in the way that it was that the answer would be misinterpreted. That kind of got taken out of context. Mickey had dialed his daughter’s number from the Judge’s phone, it wasn’t in there already as far we know,” Gayheart said. “From the preliminary examination we got to do, Mickey dialed the number." Testimony about phone number of sheriff’s daughter taken ‘out of context,’ sources say - The Mountain Eagle

It is interesting that both of them immediately took up for the judge & denied that number was stored on his phone, without knowing for a fact if it was, or wasn't. Especially in light of the detective's testimony that the minor daughter was interviewed about her conversations (plural) with the judge, and what occurred during those conversations.

LE: her number wasn't stored on his phone - it's all been misinterpreted & taken out of context
Daughter: we had phone conversations, and here's what occurred during them
Detective: the kid's phone wasn't collected but records of those calls will be on the judge's cell phone records

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I had to go back and refresh my memory of where that info came from:

"While many have interpreted that to mean the number was saved, two separate law enforcement officials with knowledge of what happened said that is not the case. One, who asked not to be identified, said a security video taken from a camera mounted behind Stines near the ceiling in the judge’s office shows Stines punched in the numbers to dial. The other, Kentucky State Police spokesman Trooper Matt Gayheart, confirmed that the number was dialed, and said he knew when the question was asked in the way that it was that the answer would be misinterpreted. That kind of got taken out of context. Mickey had dialed his daughter’s number from the Judge’s phone, it wasn’t in there already as far we know,” Gayheart said. “From the preliminary examination we got to do, Mickey dialed the number." Testimony about phone number of sheriff’s daughter taken ‘out of context,’ sources say - The Mountain Eagle

It is interesting that both of them immediately took up for the judge & denied that number was stored on his phone, without knowing for a fact if it was, or wasn't. Especially in light of the detective's testimony that the minor daughter was interviewed about her conversations (plural) with the judge, and what occurred during those conversations.

LE: her number wasn't stored on his phone - it's all been misinterpreted & taken out of context
Daughter: we had phone conversations, and here's what occurred during them
Detective: the kid's phone wasn't collected but records of those calls will be on the judge's cell phone records

And the sheriff dialing the number directly doesn’t indicate if the number was or wasn’t stored- you can still dial the number regardless, so I found it odd that the fact that he dialed the number was somehow indicative of the number not being stored- just rather odd- moo

 

[Wallendo]

On an iPhone, we a number is dialed which has an entry in contacts, the name of the contact (and possibly an emoji or picture associated with it) appears on the screen. IF LE had a good view of the screen, they would know whether or not this happened.

I wonder if the video referenced was the same video made public, or a different view. If there were multiple cameras, this would raise suspicions that there was some other reason for video surveillance than simply deterring sexual activity in the room. Most of the recent information released seems poorly worded and confusing. At this point there is little evidence in MSM upon which to make a deduction. IMHO, the statutory rape rumors are probably false. I can imagine a few situations where contact between the judge and the sheriff's daughter could be legitimate but misinterpreted by a man under great stress. I will not post about them since these possible situations are pure speculation.

Everybody involved in this case has been quiet lately. I suspect we will not know much until trial.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Everybody involved in this case has been quiet lately. I suspect we will not know much until trial.

RSBM
Still in the hands of the GJ- and no one seemed to want to talk too much to start with- moo

GJ needs to return by Dec 2

 

[Seattle1]

Unlike getting into the contacts of Mullins phone, it's not so difficult to confirm incoming, outgoing, and/or missed calls on any mobile phone and this is what KSP was able to confirm by simply viewing the "call log."

https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/for...-killing-judge-to-appear-in-court/?nxsparam=1
10/2/24

Kentucky State Police Trooper Matt Gayheart told FOX 56 News on Wednesday that contrary to how it was stated in court, investigators won’t know if her number was saved in Mullins’ phone until forensic reports come back in a few weeks. However, the call log reportedly showed her number had been called prior to the shooting.

Surveillance video showed that the shooting occurred just moments after the calls were made.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Unlike getting into the contacts of Mullins phone, it's no so difficult to confirm incoming, outgoing, and/or missed calls on any mobile phone and this is what KSP was able to confirm by simply viewing the "call log."

So in the call long but not “saved” per se, is that what KSP is saying?

 

[Ontario Mom]

On an iPhone, we a number is dialed which has an entry in contacts, the name of the contact (and possibly an emoji or picture associated with it) appears on the screen. IF LE had a good view of the screen, they would know whether or not this happened.

I wonder if the video referenced was the same video made public, or a different view. If there were multiple cameras, this would raise suspicions that there was some other reason for video surveillance than simply deterring sexual activity in the room. Most of the recent information released seems poorly worded and confusing. At this point there is little evidence in MSM upon which to make a deduction. IMHO, the statutory rape rumors are probably false. I can imagine a few situations where contact between the judge and the sheriff's daughter could be legitimate but misinterpreted by a man under great stress. I will not post about them since these possible situations are pure speculation.

Everybody involved in this case has been quiet lately. I suspect we will not know much until trial.

From what I understood via the MSM links previously posted, the video the public saw was an edited version of the full video - all recorded from one camera (same angle). In the full video, there are several people in the judge's chamber, they all leave and then Stines comes in. They talk then he takes out his phone & dials his daughter's number. Then he takes the judge's phone and does the same. It's the same view we all saw when Stines was walking around the desk shooting at the judge.

Based on the section of the video that was made public, I don't believe anyone had a high (enough) res view of the judge's phone screen when Stines was calling his daughter's number on it, to be able to discern whether her number came up or not, as Stines was dialing it. The claim was made that because he manually dialed in the number, it wasn't stored as contact (with the implication it was never dialed from the phone previous to Stines dialing it himself).

The problem with that argument is, it simply doesn't hold water. From the wee research I've done via google's new AI, iPhone does the same thing Android does, and pre-poplulates the number field as you're dialing the number, even if you've never manually saved a number as a contact. If it's ever been dialed before, it's still in the phone. You can manually dial it, or you can just click the pre-populated number as it comes up. The other part of that argument is, the lead detective's testimony about the daughter's interview detailing what occurred during her phone conversations with the judge, and the records of those calls being on the judge's cell phone records as well. So we know they had phone conversations regardless of who called who.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

So in the call long but not “saved” per se, is that what KSP is saying?

It is curious someone was able to access the call log before the phone was handed over to the state lab. The article doesn't state who that was though, just that the log "reportedly" showed her number.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

It is curious someone was able to access the call log before the phone was handed over to the state lab. The article doesn't state who that was though, just that the log "reportedly" showed her number.

That part didn’t make much sense to me because if you saw the number in the log you’d see the contact associated with it I’d think - so I’d figure you’d know without a deep dive into contacts if it was saved vs just repeatedly dialed or incoming call - moo

 

[fred&edna]

Doesn't the grand jury meet the first Tues of each month?

 

[Ontario Mom]

That part didn’t make much sense to me because if you saw the number in the log you’d see the contact associated with it I’d think - so I’d figure you’d know without a deep dive into contacts if it was saved vs just repeatedly dialed or incoming call - moo

I just pulled up my call log. Out of the last 6 numbers either dialed out or incoming, only 1 of them is in my contacts. I know that, but no one else would, unless they also accessed my contacts.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Doesn't the grand jury meet the first Tues of each month?

I can't seem to find that info. I know they had 60 days as of the first of October. So my guess would be we'll hear something in the next 2 weeks. Ish.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I just pulled up my call log. Out of the last 6 numbers either dialed out or incoming, only 1 of them is in my contacts. I know that, but no one else would, unless they also accessed my contacts.

On my call log it shows the contacts name/label not the actual number and the only phone numbers that are displayed are ones not saved in my contacts - so you’d easily be able to tell which numbers weren’t in my contacts but might not know who “Zan new FM” or AKH were and don’t see their numbers displayed

 

[Deleted member 296739]

And upon further inspection, some phone numbers who aren’t in my contacts have a suggested name below the number- but my saved contacts have the name/label and not the number

So it obviously varies by phone/carrier and why I was confused about what has been mentioned regarding what they know/don’t know about the daughter’s number being saved in the phone or not- moo

 

[fred&edna]

I can't seem to find that info. I know they had 60 days as of the first of October. So my guess would be we'll hear something in the next 2 weeks. Ish.

I found the info here but unsure if it's applicable for Letcher Co.

View Document - Kentucky Court Rules

govt.westlaw.com

I tried this business days calc site for a "guess" using Oct 1 2024 as the begin date and Jan 3 2025 as an end date which is 61 business days. (I was just playing loose with the end date to give me an estimate)
I sure hope we don't have to wait more than a couple weeks beyond today, personally.

Business Days Calculator – Count Workdays

Business Days Calculator counts the number of days between two dates, with the option of excluding weekends and public holidays.

www.timeanddate.com

jmo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I found the info here but unsure if it's applicable for Letcher Co.

View Document - Kentucky Court Rules

govt.westlaw.com

I tried this business days calc site for a "guess" using Oct 1 2024 as the begin date and Jan 3 2025 as an end date which is 61 business days. (I was just playing loose with the end date to give me an estimate)
I sure hope we don't have to wait more than a couple weeks, personally.

Business Days Calculator – Count Workdays

Business Days Calculator counts the number of days between two dates, with the option of excluding weekends and public holidays.

www.timeanddate.com

jmo

We went through this a day or so ago trying to figure it out and it looks like calendar days not business days and if its a holiday or weekend then it’s the next business day- and it doesn’t include the day it was ordered- so counting starts Oct 2, and 60 days is a Saturday so Dec 2 Monday is the best guess- state statutes on computing time linked above in previous post- this was as best we could figure so if not the week of 11/25 then 12/2

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Computing time in KY

 

[Seattle1]

Motive vs Mens Rea​

Motive is often confused with mens rea which means "guilty mind" and refers to the defendant's culpability or intent to commit the criminal act.

To be clear, while motive might help the prosecution explain why Stines executed Mullins in his Chambers, it's not necessary to convict him. There was no motive presented at the PC hearing and the grand jury doesn't need one to indict him for murder.

Citing examples posited on the thread thus far, whether Stines perceived drug treatment financial fraud or wrong doing against his child, it doesn't make Stines any less guilty from acting as the judge and jury here, and following through with intentionally shooting Mullins multiple times and leaving him to die on the floor of his Chambers that the world witnessed on video.

If the defense wants to introduce claims beyond Stines relied on speculation and hearsay, he's going to have to produce specific evidence to show a nexus between his claim outlined in his defense Motion that Stines didn't intend to kill Mullins.

As we just saw in the Delphi trial, case law is quite clear that the nexus must not be based on speculation, conjecture, rumors, or hearsay, but rather on admissible evidence.

KY 507.020 MURDER