Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[rogue ant]

Is the theory that these daughter's number was saved under another contact name corroborated anywhere?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Is the theory that these daughter's number was saved under another contact name corroborated anywhere?

Not that I’m aware of- just speculation- moo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Is the theory that these daughter's number was saved under another contact name corroborated anywhere?

Not that I'm aware of. Just speculation.

Even if the number was not properly saved in the phone, if it had ever been dialed from that phone, it'd come up as soon as you start putting in the digits. It happens on my phone all the time with numbers I've called before, but have never actually saved to my phone. I don't know about iPhone but I have Android and it happens all the time. Just happened again yesterday with a plumbing company I've called before, but never actually saved the number. Your phone just does that on it's own.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Not that I’m aware of- just speculation- moo

Jinx.

 

[tlcya]

Is the theory that these daughter's number was saved under another contact name corroborated anywhere?

Kentucky State Police later clarified that they have no evidence the daughter’s phone number was on the judge’s phone before the sheriff dialed it
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/01/g-s1-25793/video-shows-the-moment-a-kentucky-judge-was-shot-to-death

I assume this means they looked and not just under her given name.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Kentucky State Police later clarified that they have no evidence the daughter’s phone number was on the judge’s phone before the sheriff dialed it
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/01/g-s1-25793/video-shows-the-moment-a-kentucky-judge-was-shot-to-death

I assume this means they looked and not just under her given name.

That was my assumption as well…

 

[OldAce]

"Trooper Matt Gayheart, a state police spokesman, attributed the confusion to what he called a “misleading” exchange during the preliminary hearing. “It was very confusing,” Gayheart said. “I was even confused watching it.” It’s not clear why the sheriff called his daughter from the judge’s phone. Gayheart says Stines’ daughter did not answer."

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/01/g-s1-25793/video-shows-the-moment-a-kentucky-judge-was-shot-to-death

This very clearly says the girl did not answer the phone.

It does. Wonder how he knows, as supposedly "they had sent phones on to the lab" and had no info at that time. (This was given as to why so little could be/would be given at the hearing.)
And even he was confused. Really.
To many cooks spoil the broth..." Spilled broth usually causes hasty clean up...

 

[Ontario Mom]

Kentucky State Police later clarified that they have no evidence the daughter’s phone number was on the judge’s phone before the sheriff dialed it
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/01/g-s1-25793/video-shows-the-moment-a-kentucky-judge-was-shot-to-death

I assume this means they looked and not just under her given name.

If the daughter gave information during interviews about what occured during her phone conversations with the judge...
And her phone was not obtained by LE but the judge's was, and whatever evidence of those conversations from her phone would also be found on the judge's cell records, as the detective testified to during the prelim, the only reason her phone number would not be on the judge's phone, is if he manually deleted all record of it from the phone itself. However, it would definitely still be in his phone records.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It does. Wonder how he knows, as supposedly "they had sent phones on to the lab" and had no info at that time. (This was given as to why so little could be/would be given at the hearing.)
And even he was confused. Really.
To many cooks spoil the broth..." Spilled broth usually causes hasty clean up...

My guess would be, based on the interviews the daughter gave to LE about her phone conversations with the judge.

 

[fsngruv]

I can't recall exactly, but I believe the daughter's number being saved in the judges phone has been discussed up thread? Iirc, a previous poster shared a zoomed in photo of the judges phone during the return call, and I think it wasn't a saved number? Forgive me for not having the posts. I'll see if I can't find them. I wasn't sure if anyone else recalls those posts? I also am not sure if it was confirmed that the daughter was the call on the judges phone during the shooting.

 

[OldAce]

If the daughter gave information during interviews about what occured during her phone conversations with the judge...
And her phone was not obtained by LE but the judge's was, and whatever evidence of those conversations from her phone would also be found on the judge's cell records, as the detective testified to during the prelim, the only reason her phone number would not be on the judge's phone, is if he manually deleted all record of it from the phone itself. However, it would definitely still be in his phone records.

So, we will not know until testimony is presented at trial? Square one is beginning to circle, again...

 

[Deleted member 296739]

If the daughter gave information during interviews about what occured during her phone conversations with the judge...
And her phone was not obtained by LE but the judge's was, and whatever evidence of those conversations from her phone would also be found on the judge's cell records, as the detective testified to during the prelim, the only reason her phone number would not be on the judge's phone, is if he manually deleted all record of it from the phone itself. However, it would definitely still be in his phone records.

I was having trouble making sense of the we didn’t need her phone

why not? What if they were messaging and one party had deleted things? Especially if using an app like WhatsApp

If her number wasn’t in his phone how would it also contain the necessary info

Phone records only give up so much information- not necessarily all in app data or photos or whatever…

I’m still confused- can’t see why they wouldn’t at least want a look- unless all they needed or wanted was that this phone called that phone at this time- type info and that would be in the cell phone company records…

But still not making the most logical sense to me - guessing much more to the story … moo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

So, we will not know until testimony is presented at trial? Square one is beginning to circle, again...

Yup - and we’ve Got to get a GJ indictment before we can even get to trial… (which I wouldn’t be surprised if it never happened… but that’s just me…) moo

 

[OldAce]

I was having trouble making sense of the we didn’t need her phone

why not? What if they were messaging and one party had deleted things? Especially if using an app like WhatsApp

If her number wasn’t in his phone how would it also contain the necessary info

Phone records only give up so much information- not necessarily all in app data or photos or whatever…

I’m still confused- can’t see why they wouldn’t at least want a look- unless all they needed or wanted was that this phone called that phone at this time- type info and that would be in the cell phone company records…

But still not making the most logical sense to me - guessing much more to the story … moo

You know, that hearing was the most inept legal act ever put together or one of the smoothest productions from start to gone. Even the LE testifying seemed embarrassed by his sketchy offering.

 

[sunspun]

"Trooper Matt Gayheart, a state police spokesman, attributed the confusion to what he called a “misleading” exchange during the preliminary hearing. “It was very confusing,” Gayheart said. “I was even confused watching it.” It’s not clear why the sheriff called his daughter from the judge’s phone. Gayheart says Stines’ daughter did not answer."

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/01/g-s1-25793/video-shows-the-moment-a-kentucky-judge-was-shot-to-death

This very clearly says the girl did not answer the phone.

But it's possible she called right back after not answering his call. Some think they see the phone getting a call during the shooting, which could easily have been the last person called calling back, after not having made it in time to answer the call or something.

 

[fsngruv]

I can't recall exactly, but I believe the daughter's number being saved in the judges phone has been discussed up thread? Iirc, a previous poster shared a zoomed in photo of the judges phone during the return call, and I think it wasn't a saved number? Forgive me for not having the posts. I'll see if I can't find them. I wasn't sure if anyone else recalls those posts? I also am not sure if it was confirmed that the daughter was the call on the judges phone during the shooting.

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2' Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

Forgive The screenshot, the post can be found on thread #2 page 29

 

[Deleted member 296739]

You know, that hearing was the most inept legal act ever put together or one of the smoothest productions from start to gone. Even the LE testifying seemed embarrassed by his sketchy offering.

I tend to agree and was met with stiff opposition to my suggestion that the hearing seemed perhaps lax and vague earlier in the thread- it felt to me like a rubber stamp to get bound over to grand jury with ONLY the option of murder and giving as little information as possible as quickly as possible

I can only think of 2 reasons- they were that inept and shook up that they blundered along, or it was an “on purpose” and wanted to get things to the GJ in a very specific way and there’s just a lot more going on behind the scenes - but IANAL and don’t know KY law and will wait to see what the GJ returns with in a few weeks- moo

 

[Ontario Mom]

I was having trouble making sense of the we didn’t need her phone

why not? What if they were messaging and one party had deleted things? Especially if using an app like WhatsApp

If her number wasn’t in his phone how would it also contain the necessary info

Phone records only give up so much information- not necessarily all in app data or photos or whatever…

I’m still confused- can’t see why they wouldn’t at least want a look- unless all they needed or wanted was that this phone called that phone at this time- type info and that would be in the cell phone company records…

But still not making the most logical sense to me - guessing much more to the story … moo

All really good questions.

Let's say you and me were messaging back and forth and I'd sent you texts, or emails, pics, links, etc.
One day I decide to end our convo and then I delete your number & every message/email thread we had.
All pics, texts, links, etc. are all gone from my phone. Zero evidence on my phone.

For whatever reason then, you're interviewed about our previous phone conversations.
You mention all the details about pics, texts, links or whatever.

To verify any of what you've said - even without ever looking at your physical phone or your cell provider records, my phone provider would verify every time I answered a call or text from you, and it would also verify every time I made a call or text to you. Further, if LE had to run data recovery software on my phone, it would be a secondary confirmation of what you'd said, and show every single message/email/link/pic/etc. even if I deleted it all from my phone.

Your phone wouldn't even be required to show what was going on with my phone, if all you stated was true about our former phone conversations.

I hope all that made sense. This is the kind of digital evidence that comes up in cases all the time in the last 10 years or so, as data recovery software just gets better and better.

 

[Leilei]

DBM

 

[Deleted member 296739]

All really good questions.

Let's say you and me were messaging back and forth and I'd sent you texts, or emails, pics, links, etc.
One day I decide to end our convo and then I delete your number & every message/email thread we had.
All pics, texts, links, etc. are all gone from my phone. Zero evidence on my phone.

For whatever reason then, you're interviewed about our previous phone conversations.
You mention all the details about pics, texts, links or whatever.

To verify any of what you've said - even without ever looking at your physical phone or your cell provider records, my phone provider would verify every time I answered a call or text from you, and it would also verify every time I made a call or text to you. Further, if LE had to run data recovery software on my phone, it would be a secondary confirmation of what you'd said, and show every single message/email/link/pic/etc. even if I deleted it all from my phone.

Your phone wouldn't even be required to show what was going on with my phone, if all you stated was true about our former phone conversations.

I hope all that made sense. This is the kind of digital evidence that comes up in cases all the time in the last 10 years or so, as data recovery software just gets better and better.

Yes that follows- was more thinking of the apps and encryption stuff that isn’t as easy to get at- voip calls, messaging apps, etc that don’t always show up and aren’t easily accessible at times- but there would be a lot of data from just one phone-

No indication that that’s what was happening- more shocked at the why wouldn’t you collect the phone?? moo