Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #2

[newsjunkie]

I’m going back to finding dirt under someone’s nails. Possibly someone who later used gardening as an excuse?

MOO.


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Or a neighbor with a muddy borrowed shovel. (ala Casey Anthony)

 

[Henry2326]

Also IMO the public isn't asked to search because LE now believes this is a recovery effort. Recall that WPD never even asked people to look in their backyards, sheds, etc. like we often see in other cases. This could mean that they had a good idea of events early on - but then again every PD works differently so without more info we don't know where the investigation is at this point.


Sorry for being so long-winded; I'm sitting on my hands right along with the rest of you.

Hi- well said. You hit the nail on the head. I believe it hit them on Sunday morning at the same time it hit me. By mid Sunday afternoon, IMO, they had a strategy. Clearly yesterday and today, they have no real need to update the public.

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[WillenFan21]

It appears you can't read it unless you're logged in to Facebook. Everything I click, all I get is the login-or-join screen.

Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156193361153979&id=120046028978

 

[WillenFan21]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156193361153979&id=120046028978

There are a few comments on here that are concerning. Look at the comments under BG’s original comment.


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FindLucasAllen if you are reading thread still I'd check this out if I were you.

 

[mistivon]

But why not ask for any kind of surveillance footage? That could be like the nail in a coffin.

 

[mistivon]

(sorry can't edit)
Or something like, "if you were in a park on Saturday between noon and three, we'd like to talk to you". Anything.

 

[haven71]

Still doesn't make sense why they're ignoring the water in the parks though. IMO.

 

[Stunned]

We reported someone to CPS for abuse/neglect and it was supposed to be kept anonymous. But the father came to our home, drunk and screaming threats, because his wife had figured out who reported the abuse.

The social worker apparently told her the very specific allegations. And since my husband and I were the only ones present when that abuse occurred, they knew it came from us. I had asked specifically for them not to make it specific enough to identify us---but I guess that did not happen.

We ended up moving before our lease was up and taking a loss, because this family was so scary.

Sometimes there is no getting around who reported it. You just have to breathe, and know you did the right thing. What always stunned me.. the more the specific, horrific abuse reported against me or the parents, the child would be in my classroom the next day. Safe...for the time being...

 

[WildcatRunner]

I am not sure if this is allowable by the rules due to the site source, but I saw the Zillow posting of the new house (assuming bought by the now landlord), and the marketing blurb states a fully fenced backyard. So a 5 year old got out the back door, and also a gate, and wandered off? That makes me even more skeptical.

 

[Steelslady]

I agree. It's specific and vague at the same time.

What are we missing?

jmo

Was there a shovel with dirt found at their home or in their garage?

Leaves or some plant life attached to a shovel, or inside the car or home that didn't come from any tree in their yard or the neighborhood?

Tree bark, again, not from the neighborhood?

Is there a different grass in the parks that isn't used on lawns in the neighborhood? Poison Ivy?

Is there any gravel at those parks that might get stuck on the bottom of shoes?

turf from a field?

twigs stuck on clothing or in the car from trees not in the neighborhood?

Old petals from flowered trees in car or house not from yard?

a torn jacket or piece of clothing soiled possibly from a park that belonged to Lucas?

Is there any concession stands or little restaurants that sell candy or something that can be bought at the park but not in a store, like penny candy, which might produce a wrapper stuck on step moms' or baby's shoe? A certain kind of bottled water or drink bottle?

Was there any chalk outlines of a baseball or soccer field and the chalk residue was on the bottom of someone's shoe?

A whistle piece from a referee?

A flashlight with soil from the park on it?

a blanket with soil and leaves on it?

folding chair with soil on it?

a disposable coffee cup with soil on it or chalk from a field? grass?

any special rocks there that wouldn't be found in the neighborhood, like mica, on the bottom of shoe or some other object?



A piece of sports net or equipment from the field?

 

[Stunned]

They are in the Jefferson district— which has a program. The issue is the pre-k programs are free and fill up VERY fast in these areas. So there is really no way to know if he could transfer unless we call the school and ask if they have openings.


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And they should not answer your guestions.

 

[mistivon]

Still doesn't make sense why they're ignoring the water in the parks though. IMO.

Agreed. I thought for sure they'd have divers out today.

 

[haven71]

Was there a shovel with dirt found at their home or in their garage?

Leaves or some plant life attached to a shovel, or inside the car or home that didn't come from any tree in their yard or the neighborhood?

Tree bark, again, not from the neighborhood?

Is there a different grass in the parks that isn't used on lawns in the neighborhood? Poison Ivy?

Is there any gravel at those parks that might get stuck on the bottom of shoes?

turf from a field?

twigs stuck on clothing or in the car from trees not in the neighborhood?

Old petals from flowered trees in car or house not from yard?

a torn jacket or piece of clothing soiled possibly from a park that belonged to Lucas?

Is there any concession stands or little restaurants that sell candy or something that can be bought at the park but not in a store, like penny candy, which might produce a wrapper stuck on step moms' or baby's shoe? A certain kind of bottled water or drink bottle?

Was there any chalk outlines of a baseball or soccer field and the chalk residue was on the bottom of someone's shoe?

A whistle piece from a referee?

A flashlight with soil from the park on it?

a blanket with soil and leaves on it?

folding chair with soil on it?

a disposable coffee cup with soil on it or chalk from a field? grass?

any special rocks there that wouldn't be found in the neighborhood, like mica, on the bottom of shoe or some other object?



A piece of sports net or equipment from the field?

These are all excellent possibilities of why they may be focused on a park. Thanks for brainstorming them!

But the tip was from a tipline so does that mean someone was at her home and saw something like these things, recognized the possible importance, and called LE?

And still...if he was at the park assumably from evidence such as this, Why oh Why aren't they checking the bodies of water there? I'm sorry, I just can't figure out why the water is not being searched. Just because dry soil or dry anything is found that relates to a park doesn't mean he didn't end up in the water...

 

[newsjunkie]

Agreed. I thought for sure they'd have divers out today.

The issues with divers today specifically is the cold, snow, rain, and ice. It’s my understanding Friday is the soonest for better diving conditions.

 

[LietKynes]

Still doesn't make sense why they're ignoring the water in the parks though. IMO.

RSBM

Agreed. Does anyone know if SAR dogs were used in the parks or around water ? Sorry if it's been mentioned.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Ugh. Those FB groups are a nightmare.

 

[DAnthrplgst]

Hey Everyone. There are a couple of questions/ideas being floated I just wanna address.

First, the question of why isn't LE searching the water. I suspect they are not searching the water because it would be impossible for someone to deposit a body in them without someone noticing. As I recall of the parks they have searched thus far, the ponds/lakes have been fairly exposed to the public with no real way of someone dropping a body without being noticed.

Second, the question of if some sort of natural debris led LE to the parks. It is possible but I find it doubtful. In most small geographical areas, like Wichita, the local species of trees, bushes and grasses will all be the same. Since Wichita is located in a fairly cold climate the diversity of naturally occurring floral species is going to be limited, in other words, you don't find a lot of different species of anything in colder areas. This means that what you find on the north side of town you're going to find all over town, there is no real way to differentiate them without using complicated and time consuming genetic analysis and even then you won't find much of a difference between a tree on the north side of town and the same species of tree on the east side. Same thing goes for soil, soil tends to be homogeneous in a highly developed area like Wichita. If they were searching areas outside of the city I'd say "sure, maybe soil led them there" but even that is doubtful since you can't tell the difference between types of soils just on sight unless they are vastly different (e.g. loamy soil versus sandy soil versus clay). I've been working in the dirt for close to 20 years and I still have to use charts and a hand lens to differentiate between some types of soil.

I suspect they are searching the parks because of the tip received and/or because the parks would probably be the best hiding spot for a little body. While going into the water would be a chore, especially with it being winter, hiding a body in underbrush or even a shallow grave would be easy to accomplish. But even a shallow grave I have my doubts, with it being winter I'm sure the ground is probably frozen solid up in Kansas this time of year.

 

[1&2&3]

Found it.
"Davidson said that information from a tip line led police to nearby Chisholm Creek Park. Police are also searching Grove Park but would not elaborate further on the tip."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-underway-missing-year-family-desperate-return/story?id=53203524

I'm not sure why there have been no water searches at those places.

The bio mother has said Lucas is scared/terrified of water. I don’t remember the word she used, however, in reading it I definitely got the point that the child would not go anywhere near water.

 

[sony12]

Agreed. I thought for sure they'd have divers out today.

They don't have divers because the ponds usually aren't deep enough for there to be a need for divers.

 

[Philigumbo]

The bio mother has said Lucas is scared/terrified of water. I don’t remember the word she used, however, in reading it I definitely got the point that the child would not go anywhere near water.

But then the dad said he loved fishing...hmmm...