KY - Breonna Taylor, 26, unarmed, fatally shot multiple times by police, Louisville, 13 Mar 2020

[IceIce9]

I very clearly put IMO on the post and as such I do not need to provide a link.

It is my honest opinion that the officers and officials involved on many levels were negligent in their responsibilities to informational accuracy, due diligence, professionalism, and integrity. The evidence is an innocent civilian being murdered by men paid with her own tax dollars.

In your opinion, what should officers do if they are fired upon?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

In your opinion, what should officers do if they are fired upon?

Excellent question.

 

[Alderyn]

In my opinion the situation never should have happened. Their lack of due diligence before the actions of that night were what kicked everything off. That is the core situation that lead to everything that happened.

I work in compliance in banking. There are more concrete failsafes and regulations and policies in regards to AML and anti terrorist funding in regards to ‘nabbing the bad guys’ than I have seen of equivalent nature in policing procedures.

Due diligence is either completely absent or an afterthought. And in banking, due diligence is a verb. It is something that is expected of every employee. And there are consequences when it is not done.

This entire situation could have been avoided with pro active policies in regards to vetting information before the police have the potential to put untrained, unprepared civilians in situations where they have right to defend their homes but are not given the time to properly asses the situation.

In traumatic and high charged situations filled with danger our natural responses fall into fight,flight,freeze, or fawn. These are biological responses that sometimes we have limited or no control over.

And this is especially true in the middle of the night when your door is busted open and you don’t have the time to process before responding.

All of this is in my opinion.

 

[tresir2012]

There is no evidence the officers were negligent. The only exception is for the one officer who is being charged with wanton endangerment, not negligence. I just want to clarify this fact.

 

[Alderyn]

So all of that to say, there would have been no shot fired if the police had not instigated the chain of events that led them to Breonnas door.

Ultimately, the responsibility for what happened lies with the police. They are after all, supposed to be a professional organisation.

The system may have allowed them slip through with this horrendous miscarriage of justice, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t rotten to the core.

 

[tresir2012]

In my opinion the situation never should have happened. Their lack of due diligence before the actions of that night were what kicked everything off. That is the core situation that lead to everything that happened.

I work in compliance in banking. There are more concrete failsafes and regulations and policies in regards to AML and anti terrorist funding in regards to ‘nabbing the bad guys’ than I have seen of equivalent nature in policing procedures.

Due diligence is either completely absent or an afterthought. And in banking, due diligence is a verb. It is something that is expected of every employee. And there are consequences when it is not done.

This entire situation could have been avoided with pro active policies in regards to vetting information before the police have the potential to put untrained, unprepared civilians in situations where they have right to defend their homes but are not given the time to properly asses the situation.

In traumatic and high charged situations filled with danger our natural responses fall into fight,flight,freeze, or fawn. These are biological responses that sometimes we have limited or no control over.

And this is especially true in the middle of the night when your door is busted open and you don’t have the time to process before responding.

All of this is in my opinion.

The GJ disagrees with your opinion.

 

[Alderyn]

The GJ disagrees with your opinion.

So?

 

[sds71]

Les Abramson, a professor of criminal procedure at the University of Louisville’s Brandeis School of Law, said the absence of a “no true bill” suggests the grand jury never voted on whether to indict Mattingly and Cosgrove.

Cameron told reporters he would not disclose if he made a recommendation to the panel because of grand jury secrecy rules.

But commonwealth's attorneys in Jefferson County in previous police shootings have disclosed that.

Despite the decision, Cosgrove and Mattingly are not entirely exonerated.
Breonna Taylor: Why homicide charges weren't filed against police

 

[tresir2012]

So?

The GJ knows the facts - with respect the general public do not.

 

[Alderyn]

The GJ knows the facts - with respect the general public do not.

I don’t find the GJ credible in this case and obviously the internal culture/ control within the various departments involved are suspect considering the heartbreaking tragedy that resulted.

So from that context, I don’t feel the need to weigh the GJ on as high a pedestal as many on this thread seem to.


Also, I adhere to a very strong conviction that right and wrong are not majority concerned with what can be gotten away with within the current broken system that the United States currently has.

 

[sds71]

Kenneth Walker’s attorney : The one witness the D.A. said heard the police announce themselves initially claimed they did not. It took 2 more interviews before he said he may have heard them announce one time. 11 other neighbors did not hear an announcement.

Prosecutors should not act "as kings," says lawyer for Breonna Taylor's boyfriend

 

[kaen]

Kenneth Walker’s attorney : The one witness the D.A. said heard the police announce themselves initially claimed they did not. It took 2 more interviews before he said he may have heard them announce one time. 11 other neighbors did not hear an announcement.

Prosecutors should not act "as kings," says lawyer for Breonna Taylor's boyfriend

And....... this is why the documents need to be released. Release what was presented to the grand jury, release the make-up of the grand jury, release it all. A fair process can certainly withstand the daylight. A lack of transparency and "trust us" is not going to cut it in situations that are this volatile.

 

[IceIce9]

Breonna was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but also had a “wrong” associate. Her ex-boyfriend Glover was connected to drug dealing.


Glover's car had made "frequent" trips to Taylor's Springfield Drive apartment.

Glover walked directly into Taylor's apartment on Jan. 16.

A U.S. postal inspector verified Glover received packages at Taylor's apartment.

Taylor's car had been seen in front of Elliott Avenue on "different occasions."


And there is more in the linked article.
Breonna Taylor shooting: A minute-by-minute timeline of how she died
[/QUOTE]

Ten miles away on Elliott Avenue, police have Glover, her ex-boyfriend — the main target of the narcotics investigation — and three of his associates in custody. Officers seize drugs, guns and cash from the Elliott Avenue properties.[/QUOTE]

 

[tresir2012]

I don’t find the GJ credible in this case and obviously the internal culture/ control within the various departments involved are suspect considering the heartbreaking tragedy that resulted.

So from that context, I don’t feel the need to weigh the GJ on as high a pedestal as many on this thread seem to.


Also, I adhere to a very strong conviction that right and wrong are not majority concerned with what can be gotten away with within the current broken system that the United States currently has.

Why do you not find the GJ credible in this case? Or do you just not trust the GJ system at all in the US? (which is what it sounds like imo)

What other process is open to the victim?

 

[tresir2012]

Breonna was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but also had a “wrong” associate. Her ex-boyfriend Glover was connected to drug dealing.


Glover's car had made "frequent" trips to Taylor's Springfield Drive apartment.

Glover walked directly into Taylor's apartment on Jan. 16.

A U.S. postal inspector verified Glover received packages at Taylor's apartment.

Taylor's car had been seen in front of Elliott Avenue on "different occasions."


And there is more in the linked article.
Breonna Taylor shooting: A minute-by-minute timeline of how she died


Ten miles away on Elliott Avenue, police have Glover, her ex-boyfriend — the main target of the narcotics investigation — and three of his associates in custody. Officers seize drugs, guns and cash from the Elliott Avenue properties.

(Hope I fixed the broken quotes)


I read that timeline just today and thought it was very explanatory. It also mentions that Glover's car was registered to Breonna's apartment.

 

[tresir2012]

And....... this is why the documents need to be released. Release what was presented to the grand jury, release the make-up of the grand jury, release it all. A fair process can certainly withstand the daylight. A lack of transparency and "trust us" is not going to cut it in situations that are this volatile.

That would be down to the victim's family and attorney to decide.

 

[tresir2012]

Kenneth Walker’s attorney : The one witness the D.A. said heard the police announce themselves initially claimed they did not. It took 2 more interviews before he said he may have heard them announce one time. 11 other neighbors did not hear an announcement.

Prosecutors should not act "as kings," says lawyer for Breonna Taylor's boyfriend

Well what made them get out of bed and enter the hall?

 

[kaen]

From: Frequently Asked Questions - Kentucky Court of Justice.

What does a grand jury do?

A grand jury determines whether or not to indict, which means to bring a formal, criminal charge against an individual for a felony. Grand jurors do not decide guilt or innocence. The grand jury hears evidence and determines if there is sufficient proof to support an indictment and require the accused to stand trial. One member of the grand jury is elected foreperson of the other jurors. The foreperson is responsible for swearing in all witnesses who come before the grand jury. The commonwealth’s attorney examines each witness and advises the jury. No one is to be present in the grand jury room during the examination except the commonwealth’s attorney, a stenographer, the witness and anyone else required, such as a guardian for a child or disabled witness.

After all evidence has been presented, the grand jurors will deliberate and decide whether to return an indictment. Nine of the 12 grand jurors must be in agreement to return an indictment. All indictments must be signed by the jury foreperson, even if he or she personally voted not to return an indictment. If the grand jury votes not to return an indictment, the jury foreperson must report that fact in writing. It is the responsibility of the foreperson to report the vote results of the grand jury for or against indictment to the judge in open court.


It would be good to see the no true bill (in writing from the foreperson).

And, to know how many grand jurors agreed to not indicting.

Sunlight/transparency is a great disinfectant.

 

[Deleted member 267032]

My thought is the AG went to the GJ due to public pressure. He handed the job to two carrer prosecutors in the AG office. My reading of the history of their careers led me to believe they would fairly explore the case. I believe they would have been wrong to try to convince the GJ to indict if they thought no crime was comitted.

 

[IceIce9]

1 warning shot.

The warning shot hit the officer, then the officers returned fire.