Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

[Vegan1234]

I don't know. I've seen clips where he tells a reporter that the place they were standing is where Terri said she last saw Kyron (which matches direct statements from Terri), but adds that this was a thing she changed - again, without any kind of details of what changed and how. I'm always suspicious when a lie is postulated based on the difference between something said by A and something else B claims A said, and I'm doubly so when B won't even say what A said, just that it was different from what A's other statement. People misunderstand, people misspeak, information gets garbled when moving from person to person.

Take the staircase. Based on what Terri has said (on Dr Phil), she ascended the staircase by the gym to reach the 2nd floor hallway, and that she then saw Kyron last from the top of the staircase by the offices (this is the staircase Kyron ascended). I think it's fair to say that if you tell this to someone ("I climbed the stairs by the gym to get to the 2nd floor hallway, and that is where I last saw Kyron. I was standing at the top of the stairs at the time.") with everything perfectly clear in your mind, they will interpret the staircases as the same one. So when Terri is confronted with this ("There's a door between the top of the gym stairs and the hallway, so how could you see him?") an explanation will invariably sound like she's changing her story ("No, I walked out the door, walked to where the office staircase is, and that's where I last saw Kyron") when she really isn't.



Terri has never said anything about a line at the dry cleaners. All that comes from Desiree, who also claimed (in the Morris book) that the dry cleaners hadn't seen Terri coming in - which we know is false. Considering Terri's lawyers were the ones who supoena'd the dry cleaner staff, I doubt Terri ever denied being in there.



Perhaps the most interesting thing in the Morris book is the revelation that the emails were between Terri and the stepmother of Desiree's other son, Q. The two were in regular contact since they cooperated in getting Kyron and Q to Desiree for their visits. The topic was apparently an incident where Terri had to talk to Kyron about bad touching, and the difficulty involved in stepparenting. We know Kaine and Terri had disagreements on discipline (here's Kaine's side). I think Desiree in general reacted very badly to anything negative about Kyron, so I very much doubt there was any actual hate in these emails - especially since Kaine, who also read them, said there wasn't (on dr Phil). A further point in that favor is that Desiree had an almost equally visceral reaction to the leaked emails - and we can read these and see that they are very innocuous.



I think debunked is the wrong word to use here, unsubstantiated more like. I know that when the details emerged from the deposition of the landscaper, it made very little sense - this supposedly happened in a public restaurant, and Terri had her daughter with her. The language barrier was certainly there, as the landscaper needed an interpreter for his deposition.



Desiree claimed on multiple occasions that Kyron cried when he was going to go back to Kaine and Terri - nothing about Terri in particular that I'm aware of. On Dr Phil, Kaine countered her, saying that Kyron would also cry when he was going to Desiree. It seems, despite the best efforts of everyone, Kyron had problems adjusting to the split family life.



Desiree has gone back and forth on this - first he wasn't, now he was. At the time, neither Kaine nor Desiree claimed to be aware of Kyron being in the talent show. However, at least two parents in the school mention that he was. Whatever the case was here, we don't know the whole of it. It's possible Kyron was just assisting a friend and didn't tell his parents about it.



There has never been an official confirmation, but there has also never been an official denial. We simply don't know. I find it ludicrous that Terri would claim there was one if there wasn't - since she had to know she would have been found out immediately.

I don’t get how people don’t understand that it’s very possible Terri was in shock and panicking just like everyone else. If I dropped my kid off at school and they went missing and then questioned, I too would be wracking my brain trying to remember any and everything and my story might change somewhat also. Was that something I did yesterday? Did we run up this staircase last week or was that today. When someone can show me a manual of how someone is supposed to act and what they need to remember during a crisis….let me know. Not everyone reacts the same way and for some reason folks can’t grasp that concept.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I don’t get how people don’t understand that it’s very possible Terri was in shock and panicking just like everyone else. If I dropped my kid off at school and they went missing and then questioned, I too would be wracking my brain trying to remember any and everything and my story might change somewhat also. Was that something I did yesterday? Did we run up this staircase last week or was that today. When someone can show me a manual of how someone is supposed to act and what they need to remember during a crisis….let me know. Not everyone reacts the same way and for some reason folks can’t grasp that concept.

Agreed. I think most people know how it can be when you're faced with traumatic events, but when public suspects fail to perfectly recall every detail immediately, all that falls out the window.

 

[KristopherKolumbo]

Somehow this case had become an investigation of Desiree. Probably because the only news for this ongoing story continues to be her efforts to find her missing son. She ends up in the spotlight and under scrutiny.

Terri Horman failed her polygraph and has remained silent, and her then best friend DeDe Spicher pleaded the fifth.

Grieve how you need to, but this is not how innocent people proceed when a loved one, especially a child, goes missing on their watch. They would cooperate, stay involved with the investigation and support Desiree and Kaine with whatever is required to assist. Of course that would only apply to someone who has an interest in Kyron being found.

If shock, panic or grief were ever an issue for TH, she's had plenty of time to deal with that and come back around to be involved and helpful. Where is she now?

How do we get to the point where Terri gets the benefit of the doubt and Desiree doesn't? If my child went missing under the watch of an uncooperative Terry, I don't think i could ask for more than to have a Desiree beside me in his search.

Don't get it twisted.

Terri was the last person to see Kyron.
Terri has an unverifiable timeline for the day he went missing in her care.
Terri has continued to be uncooperative.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,
We need your help keeping Websleuths ad-free.
Subscribe to DNA Solves and make a monthly donation. Five dollars or whatever you can do is greatly appreciated. That's all you have to do to keep the obnoxious ads off of Websleuths.
CLICK HERE TO SIGN UP FOR A MONTHLY DONATION TO DNA SOLVES
By subscribing and making a monthly donation, you will be helping the families finally get the answers they deserve.
Please do not discuss this on this thread. CLICK HERE if you would like to discuss further or have any questions.
Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Manager/Websleuths.com

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Somehow this case had become an investigation of Desiree. Probably because the only news for this ongoing story continues to be her efforts to find her missing son. She ends up in the spotlight and under scrutiny.

Because Desiree has given increasingly implausible information about the case in the last decade, contradicting not only what we know of the case or logic, but sometimes herself.

Terri Horman failed her polygraph

Polygraphs are bunk and don't matter.

and has remained silent,

She talked to the police repeatedly and without representation for nearly a month - until the police attempted to ensnare her in a sting operation. After that she got a lawyer, and has said she is willing to talk to the police but they have not requested it since she got representation.

and her then best friend DeDe Spicher pleaded the fifth.

At Desiree's civil trial, not during the investigation or grand jury. Since the police had leaked her name via the parents, who in turn levelled public accusations against her, any lawyer would have told her to plead the fifth until she was cleared by law enforcement - which she says she was the year after.

Grieve how you need to, but this is not how innocent people proceed when a loved one, especially a child, goes missing on their watch.

When you leave a child in school, and the child disappears from there, it's on their watch.

They would cooperate, stay involved with the investigation and support Desiree and Kaine with whatever is required to assist.

Terri cooperated until the police began targeting her. That's not on her, that's on the police - since they did so without evidence that rose to even probable cause.

Of course that would only apply to someone who has an interest in Kyron being found.

If shock, panic or grief were ever an issue for TH, she's had plenty of time to deal with that and come back around to be involved and helpful. Where is she now?

What exactly should she do?

How do we get to the point where Terri gets the benefit of the doubt and Desiree doesn't?

It depends on their public statements. Terri has not embellished her story beyond belief and contradicted herself.

Facts matter, not the role of the person in question.

If my child went missing under the watch of an uncooperative Terry, I don't think i could ask for more than to have a Desiree beside me in his search.

Don't get it twisted.

Terri was the last person to see Kyron.

Yet at least two persons publicly stated they saw Kyron alone in the school, without Terri. Three school officials were deposed to say they saw Kyron after Terri left. The police reported that a student saw Kyron in school at 9:00, when Terri left the school at 8:45 and was either at or on her way to Fred Meyer in Hillsboro by then.

Terri has an unverifiable timeline for the day he went missing in her care.

Terri's timeline is verifiable during the time Kyron vanished from school. She was on CCTV, confirmed by multiple witnesses, and Kyron was not with her.

Terri has continued to be uncooperative.

The police have not asked her for an interview since she got representation. She has told the police everything during the first month. What else can she do?

 

[Vegan1234]

Somehow this case had become an investigation of Desiree. Probably because the only news for this ongoing story continues to be her efforts to find her missing son. She ends up in the spotlight and under scrutiny.

Terri Horman failed her polygraph and has remained silent, and her then best friend DeDe Spicher pleaded the fifth.

Grieve how you need to, but this is not how innocent people proceed when a loved one, especially a child, goes missing on their watch. They would cooperate, stay involved with the investigation and support Desiree and Kaine with whatever is required to assist. Of course that would only apply to someone who has an interest in Kyron being found.

If shock, panic or grief were ever an issue for TH, she's had plenty of time to deal with that and come back around to be involved and helpful. Where is she now?

How do we get to the point where Terri gets the benefit of the doubt and Desiree doesn't? If my child went missing under the watch of an uncooperative Terry, I don't think i could ask for more than to have a Desiree beside me in his search.

Don't get it twisted.

Terri was the last person to see Kyron.
Terri has an unverifiable timeline for the day he went missing in her care.
Terri has continued to be uncooperative.

Terri has been stalked and every little thing she does scrutinized and twisted. People since 2010 have called her employers over the years and she has had to leave numerous jobs so not to draw negative attention to the business. She goes out to restaurants and stalkers leave negative reviews about the business if they continue to serve her. People drive by her house and videotape her everywhere yelling at her while she’s shopping. And Desiree joins in on some of these happenings. How is that helping to find her missing son? These crazy stalkers make terrorist like comments about taking an “eye for an eye” “water board” and threatening to get her talk and “she’ll sees what happens next.”And NO ONE tells them to stop. Instead they post laughing emojis. And then they wonder why she doesn’t respond or ignores them.
If LE wants to so badly talk to Terri they know how to get in touch with her. No one has called her in 14 yrs. If she is the dangerous person being claimed LE would have gotten her off the street by arresting her for a bogus murder for hire plot.
I think it’s great Desiree goes to all these CART trainings to tell a parents perspective. But then she says things about Kyrons case that make no sense and only because sleuths have come out online to say no that’s not true. The last day of school was the 15th not the 4th. So it’s possible Kyron did have an appointment the next week. No there is no wall blocking Terri’s sight. We’ve all seen the pictures. Yes DD has had immunity since 2013 for unemployment fraud. Yet up until 2020 Desiree vehemently posted that SHE told the DA no immunity and that DD is lying about having immunity. Now the new story is DD did the crime and has full immunity and can’t be arrested. We all understand she is a grieving mother but the things she has said over the years have not helped find Kyron.
And it’s not just Terri she goes after. Claims are made that Kaine Horman has done nothing to find his son. That is the farthest thing from the truth. He is out at events almost every month promoting awareness in finding Kyron. He still lives in the same house and talks to LE on a regular basis and his comments are contradictory to what Desiree has said. He believes Kyron is possibly still alive out there from what he has been told. So which is it? There was a phone DD turned over to police with a picture of Kyron unalived? Or as Kaine has said he may still be alive and told never to give up hope? 2 very opposite stories. There is only 1 person of the 3 who has tried to change Kyrons story over the years and one of them is not Terri.

 

[ReadySet]

Before LE, before media, before "stalkers," before Desiree said anything about anything, Terri Moulton Horman Vasquez did what she did. She planned and plotted and disappeared Kyron. None of the rest has anything to do with what SHE did. Terri, where is Kyron?

 

[EllaMae]

Because Desiree has given increasingly implausible information about the case in the last decade, contradicting not only what we know of the case or logic, but sometimes herself.



Polygraphs are bunk and don't matter.



She talked to the police repeatedly and without representation for nearly a month - until the police attempted to ensnare her in a sting operation. After that she got a lawyer, and has said she is willing to talk to the police but they have not requested it since she got representation.



At Desiree's civil trial, not during the investigation or grand jury. Since the police had leaked her name via the parents, who in turn levelled public accusations against her, any lawyer would have told her to plead the fifth until she was cleared by law enforcement - which she says she was the year after.



When you leave a child in school, and the child disappears from there, it's on their watch.



Terri cooperated until the police began targeting her. That's not on her, that's on the police - since they did so without evidence that rose to even probable cause.



What exactly should she do?



It depends on their public statements. Terri has not embellished her story beyond belief and contradicted herself.

Facts matter, not the role of the person in question.



Yet at least two persons publicly stated they saw Kyron alone in the school, without Terri. Three school officials were deposed to say they saw Kyron after Terri left. The police reported that a student saw Kyron in school at 9:00, when Terri left the school at 8:45 and was either at or on her way to Fred Meyer in Hillsboro by then.



Terri's timeline is verifiable during the time Kyron vanished from school. She was on CCTV, confirmed by multiple witnesses, and Kyron was not with her.



The police have not asked her for an interview since she got representation. She has told the police everything during the first month. What else can she do?

Naw. Desiree has gotten ALL of her information from LE. She hasn't said anything that's implausible. It's not worth going through all these ridiculous long posts because there is nothing to any of it. Terri did it....we know she did it with DeDe's help. There is no other credible suspect, and people didn't say they saw Terri leave with Kyron just for kicks, or to harm Terri for some reason. They reported what they witnessed. Desiree visits LE around the country and is very well respected as an adviser to LE on missing children cases. Terri continues to lead a dysfunctional life including several arrests. She's a sociopathic narcissist who uses some pathetic, gullible souls online to do her dirty work. She has manipulated people her entire life, and she's still at it.

 

[KristopherKolumbo]

Because Desiree has given increasingly implausible information about the case in the last decade, contradicting not only what we know of the case or logic, but sometimes herself.



Polygraphs are bunk and don't matter.



She talked to the police repeatedly and without representation for nearly a month - until the police attempted to ensnare her in a sting operation. After that she got a lawyer, and has said she is willing to talk to the police but they have not requested it since she got representation.



At Desiree's civil trial, not during the investigation or grand jury. Since the police had leaked her name via the parents, who in turn levelled public accusations against her, any lawyer would have told her to plead the fifth until she was cleared by law enforcement - which she says she was the year after.



When you leave a child in school, and the child disappears from there, it's on their watch.



Terri cooperated until the police began targeting her. That's not on her, that's on the police - since they did so without evidence that rose to even probable cause.



What exactly should she do?



It depends on their public statements. Terri has not embellished her story beyond belief and contradicted herself.

Facts matter, not the role of the person in question.



Yet at least two persons publicly stated they saw Kyron alone in the school, without Terri. Three school officials were deposed to say they saw Kyron after Terri left. The police reported that a student saw Kyron in school at 9:00, when Terri left the school at 8:45 and was either at or on her way to Fred Meyer in Hillsboro by then.



Terri's timeline is verifiable during the time Kyron vanished from school. She was on CCTV, confirmed by multiple witnesses, and Kyron was not with her.



The police have not asked her for an interview since she got representation. She has told the police everything during the first month. What else can she do?

You're a defense lawyer. OK. Unfortunately that doesn't help Kyron. Very few if any missing persons cases have been solved by DLs. Because they sit on the other side of the courtroom.

Terri has been stalked and every little thing she does scrutinized and twisted. People since 2010 have called her employers over the years and she has had to leave numerous jobs so not to draw negative attention to the business. She goes out to restaurants and stalkers leave negative reviews about the business if they continue to serve her. People drive by her house and videotape her everywhere yelling at her while she’s shopping. And Desiree joins in on some of these happenings. How is that helping to find her missing son? These crazy stalkers make terrorist like comments about taking an “eye for an eye” “water board” and threatening to get her talk and “she’ll sees what happens next.”And NO ONE tells them to stop. Instead they post laughing emojis. And then they wonder why she doesn’t respond or ignores them.
If LE wants to so badly talk to Terri they know how to get in touch with her. No one has called her in 14 yrs. If she is the dangerous person being claimed LE would have gotten her off the street by arresting her for a bogus murder for hire plot.
I think it’s great Desiree goes to all these CART trainings to tell a parents perspective. But then she says things about Kyrons case that make no sense and only because sleuths have come out online to say no that’s not true. The last day of school was the 15th not the 4th. So it’s possible Kyron did have an appointment the next week. No there is no wall blocking Terri’s sight. We’ve all seen the pictures. Yes DD has had immunity since 2013 for unemployment fraud. Yet up until 2020 Desiree vehemently posted that SHE told the DA no immunity and that DD is lying about having immunity. Now the new story is DD did the crime and has full immunity and can’t be arrested. We all understand she is a grieving mother but the things she has said over the years have not helped find Kyron.
And it’s not just Terri she goes after. Claims are made that Kaine Horman has done nothing to find his son. That is the farthest thing from the truth. He is out at events almost every month promoting awareness in finding Kyron. He still lives in the same house and talks to LE on a regular basis and his comments are contradictory to what Desiree has said. He believes Kyron is possibly still alive out there from what he has been told. So which is it? There was a phone DD turned over to police with a picture of Kyron unalived? Or as Kaine has said he may still be alive and told never to give up hope? 2 very opposite stories. There is only 1 person of the 3 who has tried to change Kyrons story over the years and one of them is not Terri.

I don't take issue with Desiree considering any and all possibilities. That would be expected from a parent. She doesn't have the answers and she is trying to find them. IMO she gets the benefit of any doubt over TH.

If you've spent time with this case, understand the dynamic TH and KH had, and the events leading up to his disappearance, and your gut instinct is to find legal loopholes to explain away TH's actions, involvement and responsibility in her stepson's disappearance, & then frame her as a victim, all while critiquing D on the way she's dealing, we won't find any common ground.

Maybe some folks are here on behalf of TH.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I need to better understand Terri’s whereabouts after leaving the school and whether she was near Sauvie island. I also need to better understand DeDe’s time accountability that day.

Amateur opinion and speculation only

 

[OddOneOut]

Terri has been stalked and every little thing she does scrutinized and twisted. People since 2010 have called her employers over the years and she has had to leave numerous jobs so not to draw negative attention to the business. She goes out to restaurants and stalkers leave negative reviews about the business if they continue to serve her. People drive by her house and videotape her everywhere yelling at her while she’s shopping. And Desiree joins in on some of these happenings. How is that helping to find her missing son? These crazy stalkers make terrorist like comments about taking an “eye for an eye” “water board” and threatening to get her talk and “she’ll sees what happens next.”And NO ONE tells them to stop. Instead they post laughing emojis. And then they wonder why she doesn’t respond or ignores them.
If LE wants to so badly talk to Terri they know how to get in touch with her. No one has called her in 14 yrs. If she is the dangerous person being claimed LE would have gotten her off the street by arresting her for a bogus murder for hire plot.
I think it’s great Desiree goes to all these CART trainings to tell a parents perspective. But then she says things about Kyrons case that make no sense and only because sleuths have come out online to say no that’s not true. The last day of school was the 15th not the 4th. So it’s possible Kyron did have an appointment the next week. No there is no wall blocking Terri’s sight. We’ve all seen the pictures. Yes DD has had immunity since 2013 for unemployment fraud. Yet up until 2020 Desiree vehemently posted that SHE told the DA no immunity and that DD is lying about having immunity. Now the new story is DD did the crime and has full immunity and can’t be arrested. We all understand she is a grieving mother but the things she has said over the years have not helped find Kyron.
And it’s not just Terri she goes after. Claims are made that Kaine Horman has done nothing to find his son. That is the farthest thing from the truth. He is out at events almost every month promoting awareness in finding Kyron. He still lives in the same house and talks to LE on a regular basis and his comments are contradictory to what Desiree has said. He believes Kyron is possibly still alive out there from what he has been told. So which is it? There was a phone DD turned over to police with a picture of Kyron unalived? Or as Kaine has said he may still be alive and told never to give up hope? 2 very opposite stories. There is only 1 person of the 3 who has tried to change Kyrons story over the years and one of them is not Terri.

Well said. I agree completely. I've followed this thread from the beginning, and I've not seen the slightest evidence that Terri did anything to Kyron.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Naw. Desiree has gotten ALL of her information from LE.

Very doubtful, and certainly not something LE has ever confirmed.

She hasn't said anything that's implausible.

Except Dede leading the police to tossed burner phones that contained pictures of Kyron after his abduction, and this not only not leading to an arrest but to Dede getting "accidental" immunity three years later.

Except Terri stabbing a man in 2016 (an embellishment of an already tall tale) and the local DA (no connection to the Portland DA) was too afraid to charge her.

Except Terri washing every single thing Kyron owned (an embellishment of an earlier tale when she just washed his jacket and backpack) so the dogs wouldn't have any scent samples.

Except Terri telling the teacher Kyron would be back by 11 before taking him to the doctor, so he could participate in the talent show (which Desiree insisted up until last year, Kyron wasn't supposed to be in) - yet no one lifts an eyebrow (or a telephone) when Kyron fails to return at 11.

Her stories not only keeps getting "better" (as in, incriminating to almost cartoonish levels), they're also crowd-pleasing. Many of these I've seen before Desiree claimed them as truth, but then as amateur speculation - sometimes here on Websleuths.

It's not worth going through all these ridiculous long posts because there is nothing to any of it. Terri did it....we know she did it with DeDe's help.

We know no such thing.

There is no other credible suspect, and people didn't say they saw Terri leave with Kyron just for kicks, or to harm Terri for some reason.

We don't know what they say, because we've never heard them say it. All we have is Desiree claiming they did.

They reported what they witnessed.

According to Desiree.

Desiree visits LE around the country and is very well respected as an adviser to LE on missing children cases.

I'm sure she has valuable things to say in how to handle parents in her situation, but I don't see how anything she says there relates to the investigation.

Terri continues to lead a dysfunctional life including several arrests.

Terri has been acquitted, though, and the other charges dropped. And that was in the summer of 2017. She's been doing well since, recently married and seems to have found happiness, going on trips to Europe and generally seems to have moved on. I like that for her.

She's a sociopathic narcissist who uses some pathetic, gullible souls online to do her dirty work. She has manipulated people her entire life, and she's still at it.

I think "sociopathic narcissists" fit her Facebook harassers more than her. Let's not forget they harass Dede too.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

You're a defense lawyer. OK. Unfortunately that doesn't help Kyron. Very few if any missing persons cases have been solved by DLs. Because they sit on the other side of the courtroom.

That's a strange way to put it. Of course, cops with tunnel vision don't help Kyron either. We saw that in the Jacob Wetterling saga.

I believe Terri is innocent because there genuinely isn't any evidence she's guilty, and the timeline makes her guilt improbable, bordering on impossible.

I don't take issue with Desiree considering any and all possibilities. That would be expected from a parent. She doesn't have the answers and she is trying to find them. IMO she gets the benefit of any doubt over TH.

I can't say I see that when I look at Desiree. From what she says and does, it's hard to conclude something other than that she's not considering any possibility but Terri and believes she does have the answers. Her appeals to the incoming DA isn't to restart the investigation and look at all angles - it's to arrest and charge Terri because the other three DAs haven't done so.

If you've spent time with this case, understand the dynamic TH and KH had, and the events leading up to his disappearance, and your gut instinct is to find legal loopholes to explain away TH's actions, involvement and responsibility in her stepson's disappearance, & then frame her as a victim, all while critiquing D on the way she's dealing, we won't find any common ground.

I suppose "lack of evidence" is a legal loophole, in a way, but I don't believe it's limited to that.

And I think it's well worth criticizing Desiree for some of her actions, regardless of Terri's guilt. Encouraging harassment of a person or persons you believe committed a crime should never be sanctioned by anyone. Lobbying DAs? Perfectly fine. Give her opinions to the media? No issue. But she has gone beyond that and I think it is to everyone's detriment.

Maybe some folks are here on behalf of TH.

Do you actually believe that?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I need to better understand Terri’s whereabouts after leaving the school and whether she was near Sauvie island. I also need to better understand DeDe’s time accountability that day.

Amateur opinion and speculation only

Here's what we do know.

8:45 - given as the last time Terri saw Kyron (1 2 3 4). This is also when the bell rang (5).
9:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Hillsboro Fred Meyer parking lot (6). Google maps has the driving time between Skyline and FM as 9 minutes (not counting walking to and from the car, strapping in the baby, etc) (7)
9:12 - Terri claims in an email to have a receipt from the Hillsboro Fred Meyer with that timestamp (8 9 10)
9:30 - some time after this time but before 10:00, Terri meets with Andrea L in the Beaverton Fred Meyer. The witness saw the baby in Terri's arms, noted that she was not feeling well, and that Terri showed her the picture of Kyron at the fair. (11 12) Google maps has the driving time between FM1 and FM2 as 8-10 minutes (again, not counting additional time) (13)
10:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Beaverton Fred Meyer parking lot. (14)
(witnesses from Magic Cleaners dry clener in the Beaverton FM building say Terri entered their store, probably during this timespan - 9:30-10:00 - but not confirmed) (15)
10:15 - the start of the time Terri was driving on rural roads to keep the baby asleep, which she says ultimately failed. (16) We don't know her exact route, but according to leaked emails she told friends she was up on highway 30 but never on Sauvie Island. (17) She also said she gave her daughter medicine and sat in the truck for a while to get her to sleep before starting the drive. (18)
11:39 - the 24 Hour Fitness gym clocks Terri coming in with the baby. (19)
12:40 - about this time Terri leaves the gym and drives home. (20)
13:21 - Terri uploads the picture of Kyron at the fair onto Facebook. (21)

As for Dede:

9:00 - just before this time Dede arrived at her worksite, 9 minutes from the school (22 23)
10:00 (or 10:30) - Dede says she went to work at an area of the farm not visible from the main house (24)
11:30 - The farm served lunch for the workers, Dede didn't return. They shouted from the house and called her cell phone, which Dede says was left in her truck (and she didn't hear the shout) (25)
13:00 - Dede comes to the farm house and discovers she missed lunch (26)

For both times (10:00 and 11:30) it's claimed by some media sources that Dede "left" the farm (originated here) but no one is ever claimed to have seen her leave, and of course she can't have left on both times. What makes sense is that they first noted her "absence" at 11:30 when she failed to turn up for lunch, and later told media they hadn't actually seen her since 10:00, when she left for her worksite. No one ever claims to have gone to search for her.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Here's what we do know.

8:45 - given as the last time Terri saw Kyron (1 2 3 4). This is also when the bell rang (5).
9:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Hillsboro Fred Meyer parking lot (6). Google maps has the driving time between Skyline and FM as 9 minutes (not counting walking to and from the car, strapping in the baby, etc) (7)
9:12 - Terri claims in an email to have a receipt from the Hillsboro Fred Meyer with that timestamp (8 9 10)
9:30 - some time after this time but before 10:00, Terri meets with Andrea L in the Beaverton Fred Meyer. The witness saw the baby in Terri's arms, noted that she was not feeling well, and that Terri showed her the picture of Kyron at the fair. (11 12) Google maps has the driving time between FM1 and FM2 as 8-10 minutes (again, not counting additional time) (13)
10:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Beaverton Fred Meyer parking lot. (14)
(witnesses from Magic Cleaners dry clener in the Beaverton FM building say Terri entered their store, probably during this timespan - 9:30-10:00 - but not confirmed) (15)
10:15 - the start of the time Terri was driving on rural roads to keep the baby asleep, which she says ultimately failed. (16) We don't know her exact route, but according to leaked emails she told friends she was up on highway 30 but never on Sauvie Island. (17) She also said she gave her daughter medicine and sat in the truck for a while to get her to sleep before starting the drive. (18)
11:39 - the 24 Hour Fitness gym clocks Terri coming in with the baby. (19)
12:40 - about this time Terri leaves the gym and drives home. (20)
13:21 - Terri uploads the picture of Kyron at the fair onto Facebook. (21)

As for Dede:

9:00 - just before this time Dede arrived at her worksite, 9 minutes from the school (22 23)
10:00 (or 10:30) - Dede says she went to work at an area of the farm not visible from the main house (24)
11:30 - The farm served lunch for the workers, Dede didn't return. They shouted from the house and called her cell phone, which Dede says was left in her truck (and she didn't hear the shout) (25)
13:00 - Dede comes to the farm house and discovers she missed lunch (26)

For both times (10:00 and 11:30) it's claimed by some media sources that Dede "left" the farm (originated here) but no one is ever claimed to have seen her leave, and of course she can't have left on both times. What makes sense is that they first noted her "absence" at 11:30 when she failed to turn up for lunch, and later told media they hadn't actually seen her since 10:00, when she left for her worksite. No one ever claims to have gone to search for her.

Thank you. Very much appreciate this recap.

 

[KristopherKolumbo]

I believe Terri is innocent

Do you actually believe that?

Innocent. Noted.

Of course. There are agents all over the internet working in chats to peddle influence. Some more obvious that
others.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are playing devil's advocate with this line of pro TH/anti D theorizing. That becomes more of a challenge when you proclaim TH's innocence. That flirts with agenda.

What i can understand and where i officially sit, in spite of my gut feeling, is an open verdict. It would be irresponsible to rule anyone out at this time. And that is more than fair to TH.

Here's what we do know.

8:45 - given as the last time Terri saw Kyron (1 2 3 4). This is also when the bell rang (5).
9:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Hillsboro Fred Meyer parking lot (6). Google maps has the driving time between Skyline and FM as 9 minutes (not counting walking to and from the car, strapping in the baby, etc) (7)
9:12 - Terri claims in an email to have a receipt from the Hillsboro Fred Meyer with that timestamp (8 9 10)
9:30 - some time after this time but before 10:00, Terri meets with Andrea L in the Beaverton Fred Meyer. The witness saw the baby in Terri's arms, noted that she was not feeling well, and that Terri showed her the picture of Kyron at the fair. (11 12) Google maps has the driving time between FM1 and FM2 as 8-10 minutes (again, not counting additional time) (13)
10:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Beaverton Fred Meyer parking lot. (14)
(witnesses from Magic Cleaners dry clener in the Beaverton FM building say Terri entered their store, probably during this timespan - 9:30-10:00 - but not confirmed) (15)
10:15 - the start of the time Terri was driving on rural roads to keep the baby asleep, which she says ultimately failed. (16) We don't know her exact route, but according to leaked emails she told friends she was up on highway 30 but never on Sauvie Island. (17) She also said she gave her daughter medicine and sat in the truck for a while to get her to sleep before starting the drive. (18)
11:39 - the 24 Hour Fitness gym clocks Terri coming in with the baby. (19)

What we know?

"TH claims.. TH said..." Since when is hearsay from a POI credible let alone definitive? Provide the audio, video or physical evidence and then we can talk.

There is no such evidence to document THs whereabouts in the time between leaving the school and arriving at the gym, some 3 hours.

Has the exonerating receipt been provided & documented?

Dry cleaner claim is unsubstantiated.

Andrea Leckey is related to TH. Conflict of interest. If TH was in a Fred Meyer store and parking lot, how come there aren't any images of her from FM cameras. In fact she claims she went to 2 FM stores in that time period. But no evidence.

Convenient story that she's on "rural roads/sitting in the truck" during this time. And DD's whereabouts are in question?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Innocent. Noted.

Of course. There are agents all over the internet working in chats to peddle influence. Some more obvious that
others.

I always thought that was a ridiculous accusation from people who can't accept that others can come to other conclusions than they have.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are playing devil's advocate with this line of pro TH/anti D theorizing. That becomes more of a challenge when you proclaim TH's innocence. That flirts with agenda.

Personalizing like this is against Websleuths rules, though.

What i can understand and where i officially sit, in spite of my gut feeling, is an open verdict. It would be irresponsible to rule anyone out at this time. And that is more than fair to TH.

The timing takes it over the edge for me.

What we know?

"TH claims.. TH said..." Since when is hearsay from a POI credible let alone definitive? Provide the audio, video or physical evidence and then we can talk.

There is no such evidence to document THs whereabouts in the time between leaving the school and arriving at the gym, some 3 hours.

Except for CCTV and witness statements.

Has the exonerating receipt been provided & documented?

No, but we do know she was at the store at that time, so it's another point in her favor.

Dry cleaner claim is unsubstantiated.

The staff were interviewed by Kyle Iboshi and confirmed Terri had entered, as the link I gave said.

Andrea Leckey is related to TH. Conflict of interest.

Related? Leckey was an acquaintance from the gym, that's not a conflict of interest.

If TH was in a Fred Meyer store and parking lot, how come there aren't any images of her from FM cameras. In fact she claims she went to 2 FM stores in that time period. But no evidence.

Except the CCTV footage was provided and verified, and Terri's truck was in it. Not only does Desiree admit to this in the Morris book, the embedded text in the files of the fliers clearly state that Terri's truck was visible on the CCTV.

Sources tell KGW that Terri has told friends and investigators that she stopped by the two stores, and investigators have verified those statements. Sources say investigators now want to know if anyone was seen with her.

IMG_0134 Corn Pass Fred Meyers, looking from Terris parking spot.JPG

IMG_0158 View from the enterence and exit at Walker Rd Fred Meyers, Looking at Terri parking spot on the far rock wa.JPG

Convenient story that she's on "rural roads/sitting in the truck" during this time. And DD's whereabouts are in question?

None of this matters. Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00 (when his absence was noted). During this time, both Terri and Dede had alibis confirmed by witness statements. The "convenient story" and Dede's whereabouts take place after this time.

 

[KristopherKolumbo]

I always thought that was a ridiculous accusation from people who can't accept that others can come to other conclusions than they have.

Sure thing.

Personalizing like this is against Websleuths rules, though.

Fair enough. I just don't see a lot of sleuthers here working so hard to convince of a widely considered questionable POIs innocence. Why is it so important she be considered innocent when the crime is yet to be solved? Doesn't serve the purpose of the investigation. It only serves 1 person, and it's not Kyron.

IMO TH can be exonerated when the case is solved and it's not her.

Related? Leckey was an acquaintance from the gym, that's not a conflict of interest.

This is from your link:

Kyron Horman Update: Witness Saw Stepmother Day 7-Year-Old Vanished - Crimesider - CBS News

Ore. Boy Vanished June 4 Following a Science Fair at Skyline Elementary School Read more by Edecio Martinez on CBS News' Crimesider.

web.archive.org

Kyron vanished June 4 following a science fair at Skyline Elementary School.
That same day, between 9:30 and 10 a.m., Andrea Leckey ran into his stepmother, Terri Horman, at a Fred Meyer Department store in Beaverton, west of Portland. Lecky said it was the longest encounter they ever had.

Grand jury witness dubs encounter with Kyron Horman's stepmother 'odd,' according to KOIN

Andrea Leckey tells KOIN 6 a chance grocery store conversation with Terri Moulton Horman on June 4 in Beaverton was the longest she ever remembered.

www.oregonlive.com

Except for CCTV and witness statements.
No, but we do know she was at the store at that time, so it's another point in her favor.

There are confirmed sightings of a similar looking white truck but nothing to specifically confirm regarding TH, DD or KH related to these sightings.

Maybe i missed it. Is there FM or other camera footage of TH between the school and the gym? Other than pics of a white truck in the parking lot?

"Another point in her favor." - That's just, odd.

Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00 (when his absence was noted). During this time, both Terri and Dede had alibis confirmed by witness statements.

If this was accurate, no one would continue to question THs involvement. The alibis in question here are a matter of opinion.

The "convenient story" and Dede's whereabouts take place after this time.

And? While Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00, It's absolutely imperative to know TH & DDs actions and whereabouts after 10. For anyone concerned with finding KH.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Sure thing.

Fair enough. I just don't see a lot of sleuthers here working so hard to convince of a widely considered questionable POIs innocence. Why is it so important she be considered innocent when the crime is yet to be solved? Doesn't serve the purpose of the investigation. It only serves 1 person, and it's not Kyron.

The investigators have focused on Terri for fourteen years, with zero results. It would serve the investigation to change that perspective, because it obviously isn't working.

IMO TH can be exonerated when the case is solved and it's not her.

This is from your link:

Kyron Horman Update: Witness Saw Stepmother Day 7-Year-Old Vanished - Crimesider - CBS News

Ore. Boy Vanished June 4 Following a Science Fair at Skyline Elementary School Read more by Edecio Martinez on CBS News' Crimesider.

web.archive.org

Kyron vanished June 4 following a science fair at Skyline Elementary School.
That same day, between 9:30 and 10 a.m., Andrea Leckey ran into his stepmother, Terri Horman, at a Fred Meyer Department store in Beaverton, west of Portland. Lecky said it was the longest encounter they ever had.

Grand jury witness dubs encounter with Kyron Horman's stepmother 'odd,' according to KOIN

Andrea Leckey tells KOIN 6 a chance grocery store conversation with Terri Moulton Horman on June 4 in Beaverton was the longest she ever remembered.

www.oregonlive.com

That's Kyron's stepmother, not Andrea's.

There are confirmed sightings of a similar looking white truck but nothing to specifically confirm regarding TH, DD or KH related to these sightings.

Maybe i missed it. Is there FM or other camera footage of TH between the school and the gym? Other than pics of a white truck in the parking lot?

Yes, as the link I gave said, they have verified her in those locations. Here's another one:

The infection plays a key role in what Terri claims she did after the science fair. Surveillance video shows she visited two different Fred Meyer stores to get medication for {her daughter].

The question the police asked wasn't if the truck was there, it was if anyone had seen anyone else by it. Furthermore we have a witness placing her at the Beaverton Fred Meyer, with her daughter and without Kyron.

"Another point in her favor." - That's just, odd.

If she didn't have a receipt, but we know she was there at that time, what purpose would be gained by lying about it?

If this was accurate, no one would continue to question THs involvement. The alibis in question here are a matter of opinion.

The problem here is that there are two views of Terri's culpability. One is the popular view, championed by Desiree and her facebook groups, and most amateur sleuthers believing she's guilty. Terri somehow took Kyron from school and disposed of him that morning, with or without Dede.

But there's no indication that is the police opinion. Kaine has spoken about there being another, unknown suspect (that he believes is connected to Terri).

"Somebody else is involved with his disappearance and we need investigators to continue to focus on other avenues that might reveal who those person or persons are," said Kaine Horman.

From the start, the police have targeted a landscaper, Dede, a mysterious unknown person sitting in the truck. No question has ever been asked if anyone saw Kyron in Terri's truck at the Fred Meyers, just if she met with someone else while there.

So I believe the evidence points to the police going with an unknown associate of Terri's doing the actual deed (and then perhaps meeting up on Sauvie Island when they still believed she pinged there). And in that case her 9-10 alibi wouldn't matter. But they've had 14 years, and have apparently not found a single shred of evidence of this mystery person or his connection to Terri.

And? While Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00, It's absolutely imperative to know TH & DDs actions and whereabouts after 10. For anyone concerned with finding KH.

But it means they weren't the ones who took him.

 

[minazoe]

it always surprises me when someone who is educated and has had so many opportunities in life ends up in a low class lifestyle of crime, violence and alcoholism. it also surprises me that Terri has found people who would actually marry her. she is the only criminal who was in Kyron's inner circle, she is the violent person who stabbed someone...she is a known liar and a drunk. she has no excuse..no alibi and people saw her. I pray for break in this case and to see her in prison where she belongs..mOO