Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022

[DFWNF]

opiates, visine, sleeping pills, rat poison, benzos, any of these things can easily kill a small child.

my grandmother was a detective and caught a woman poisoning her husband in the hospital with milkshakes.

mOO

I was thinking just ime , sleeping pills, even OTC, can knock someone out, quickly, no violence visible to others, and once asleep, it would be so simple to position them to not be visible. It's horrible and evil, and I am not a killer, but would so so very simple for a murderer to accomplish with no outward signs to anyone else. And Kyron would not have had to be deceased when disposed of. So sad to type that, so very sorry for Desiree and his loved ones. JMO

 

[OddOneOut]

@FergusMcDuck or @OddOneOut,

Do either of you recall whether cadavour dogs were utilized in the truck search when it was seized? By 28 June, the truck had been searched at least twice (Kyron Horman: Timeline of events since boy's disappearance) so I'm of mind that had Kyron been killed or his body hidden in that truck (no matter how he was killed - if indeed that is his fate), then that would have been known by 28 June at the latest.

IMO, any competant and well done search by authorities of that truck (twice) would have included at least once with cadavder dogs as the failed sting attempt and custodial issues had already occured along with the flier with the truck before this point in time (ie: they had their suspect firmly in their sights by then): surely to heavens LE utilized this tool that was available to them and had they ound any iota of evidence that Kyron was killed in, or transported deceased, within that truck their suspect uno would have been arrested at that point in time because it is quite clearly acknowledge that she was the sole possessor of, and user of that truck that fateful day. If LE did not use cadaver dogs in their search of the truck, I am disheartened and discouraged at their lack of forethought and investigative measures used (not used??) in this instance.

I guess the answer to that question either rules out certain scenarios (killed in truck/deceased and transported in truck) or not. I, for one, hope LE was competant enough to use the cadaver dogs as their suspicions were clear by this point and, IMO, they did.

No, I don't remember whether the truck was even searched. There has been so much opinion stated that it is impossible to remember what was fact, what was hearsay, and what was theory. The only way I know to resolve this is to start over, write down everything along with the source. I believe FergusMcDuck was planning to attempt something similar.

 

[DFWNF]

opiates, visine, sleeping pills, rat poison, benzos, any of these things can easily kill a small child.

my grandmother was a detective and caught a woman poisoning her husband in the hospital with milkshakes.

mOO

Bbm, wow, so evil, glad your Grandma caught her.

 

[DFWNF]

Is there a website where the known evidence - not rumors- is all laid out on one page, with links to source?

This is a case in which truth versus rumor is really muddied, IMO.

I would like to be clear on the facts/details, such as did items go missing from Kyron's home, and if so, which items? Did Terri send an email to his teacher, and what exactly did it say? Were there inconsistencies with the timeline, and if so, what were they?
Etc.

But my feeling is these sorts of details remain withheld by LE (?)

Bbm, oh definitely, I see no reason why LE would behave anything other than s.o.p, and see no reason why they would release anything that is part of their case. JMO Clearly they are not going to stop until the perp they continue to pursue until they get that crucial proof and lock the evil killer up for life. JMO

 

[Truth Prevails]

No, I don't remember whether the truck was even searched. There has been so much opinion stated that it is impossible to remember what was fact, what was hearsay, and what was theory. The only way I know to resolve this is to start over, write down everything along with the source. I believe FergusMcDuck was planning to attempt something similar.

Snipped quote: Terri Horman’s dad tells PEOPLE in the current issue she’s been interviewed repeatedly, as long as six hours at a time, and that police have inspected her truck twice. Asked if he thought authorities would arrest Terri, her father said it was “50-50.”

Missing Oregon Boy's Father Separates from Stepmother

As family unity crumbles, Kyron Horman's dad moves out – and takes their daughter with him, PEOPLE has learned

people.com

 

[katydid23]

What something would that be?

There are dozens of 'somethings' that could be used to knock a child out---temporarily or permanently. I am sure TH would have some ideas, being a registered nurse.

How long can you put a case before a grand jury before they indict? I've tried to look up precedents, but I haven't found any case where a grand jury was looking at the same case for twelve years without returning a bill.

LE will spend decades on a murder case if need be.

Maybe that's how it'll go. But if the police have actual genuine questions that Terri can answer, and aren't just itching to pressure her into a confession, shouldn't they try? People have heaped blame upon Terri for not lying down and letting everyone walk all over her and her rights, even in the case of her innocence, yet the police just throw up their hands and give up at the slightest setback?

I just saw this article about the kinds of trouble TH has gotten into since Kyron's disappearance. She appears to be a very troubled person with little self control and has a pattern of making threats towards others.

Kyron Horman's stepmother arrested for allegedly driving stolen car

Terri Horman was stopped by police and taken into custody after she was caught in Belvedere, a wealthy suburb of San Francisco, just before 1:30pm on Friday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Earlier this month, Horman was hit with a restraining order taken out on her by her boyfriend, after she allegedly threatened him with a knife.

Horman, 46, moved to Northern California last year to escape the 'haters' who think she killed Kyron, and that's where she met and started dating Joseph Cristobal.

Cristobal, a Sacramento adult caregiver, filed a restraining order against his live-in girlfriend on November 28, when she held a knife up to him and threatened him and his family.

'She was trying to put a knife – a kitchen knife to my face and then she was telling me that if I talked to law enforcement that something is going to happen to me or my family,' he told KGW.

He told the news station that he now fears for his life.

'I don't even know what she's capable of,' he added.

Cristobal also said that he didn't know about his girlfriend's connection to the Horman case until recently and that he is suspicious of her.

 

[Vern]

There are dozens of 'somethings' that could be used to knock a child out---temporarily or permanently. I am sure TH would have some ideas, being a registered nurse.

LE will spend decades on a murder case if need be.



I just saw this article about the kinds of trouble TH has gotten into since Kyron's disappearance. She appears to be a very troubled person with little self control and has a pattern of making threats towards others.

Kyron Horman's stepmother arrested for allegedly driving stolen car

Terri Horman was stopped by police and taken into custody after she was caught in Belvedere, a wealthy suburb of San Francisco, just before 1:30pm on Friday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Earlier this month, Horman was hit with a restraining order taken out on her by her boyfriend, after she allegedly threatened him with a knife.

Horman, 46, moved to Northern California last year to escape the 'haters' who think she killed Kyron, and that's where she met and started dating Joseph Cristobal.

Cristobal, a Sacramento adult caregiver, filed a restraining order against his live-in girlfriend on November 28, when she held a knife up to him and threatened him and his family.

'She was trying to put a knife – a kitchen knife to my face and then she was telling me that if I talked to law enforcement that something is going to happen to me or my family,' he told KGW.

He told the news station that he now fears for his life.

'I don't even know what she's capable of,' he added.

Cristobal also said that he didn't know about his girlfriend's connection to the Horman case until recently and that he is suspicious of her.

People are suggesting this was the method - Fergus is asking them what she used in their opinion to support their theory; Not Terri's opinion.

Cases do not sit before grand juries for 12 continuous years just as Fergus stated: cases can be taken back to the Grand Jury if/when new evidence arises.

Yet, she was never charged pertaining to a knife incident. She has been charged with other stuff, yet was found not guilty at trial. None of which has bearing on what happened to Kyron on June 4th, 2010 nor is any 'evidence' of guilt as it pertains to Kyron.

And, IMO, it may only indicate the absolute stress post-disappearance that she has been placed under by being deemed guilty without trial (the anti-thesis to the way the system is supposed to work) and being called upon "to prove her innocense" vice the reality of the requirement actually being the system requirement to use evidence to prove her guilt.

Edited for typos.

 

[Truth Prevails]

There are dozens of 'somethings' that could be used to knock a child out---temporarily or permanently. I am sure TH would have some ideas, being a registered nurse.

Respectfully snipped.

Yes, I agree there are dozens of easily attainable street drugs, poisons, and medications that could knock a child out quickly for a temporary length of time or permanently. And all are easily attainable, too.

I don't believe I've ever heard she was a registered nurse. I've heard she is an ex-bodybuilder and she has a master's degree in education, but only taught school a few times as a substitute teacher.

I think it's fair to say many ex-bodybuilders have an understanding of the use of amphetamines, anabolic steroids, and probably the list goes on and on. I'm not saying that's the case here.

Snipped quote: A former teacher and ex-bodybuilder, Terri Horman had become increasingly isolated from family members.

Dad of missing Ore. boy says he suspects stepmom

The father of a 7-year-old Portland boy missing for more than a month told a judge he believes the boy's stepmother is involved in the disappearance, according to a court document released Thursday.

komonews.com

Snipped quote: She has a bachelor's and a master's degree in education but has never held a full-time teaching job.

Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman's stepmother is a profile in contradictions

The missing boy's stepmother, focus of the inquiry into his disappearance, is described as a giver and a taker, caring but controlling, sweet but manipulative.

www.oregonlive.com

In 2005, she had a DUI with a "reckless endangerment of another" clause attached. In my opinion, the following could be why she was never able to land a full-time teaching job.

Snipped quote: A records search of Terri Horman under her current, maiden and previous married names turned up a DUI conviction in 2005 in which she pleaded guilty not only to driving under the influence, but also to "reckless endangerment of another."

Oregon State Police Lt. Gregg Hastings told ABCNews.com that the endangerment charge stemmed from the fact that her son, who was 11 at the time, was in the vehicle when she was stopped.

A spokeswoman for the court in Marion County, Ore., said Horman was sentenced to 12 months probation, a 90-day suspension of her driver's license and she had to attend alcohol counseling programs and attend a victim impact statement.

In addition, she wracked up nine traffic infractions, including several for speeding and one for driving with an expired license, between 1988 and 2004.

Mystery 911 Call to Kyron Horman's Home Adds to Police Case

A 911 call on Saturday made by someone at Kyron Horman's home is now part of the investigation into his disappearance, police said. In addition, ABC News has discovered that in 2005 step-mother Terri Horman pleaded guilty to DUI and endangerment. Police tell ABC News that her son, who was 11, at...

abcnews.go.com

Snipped quote: 6. Respondent has historical problems with the abuse of alcohol, which have impaired her functioning since [the baby’s] birth. Respondent was convicted for driving while under the influence of alcohol and child endangerment in 2005. Her son [oldest child, not Kyron] was in the car with her when she was arrested. That was not an isolated incident of alcohol abuse. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes [the baby] would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with [the baby]. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. [The baby] would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting [the baby] to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/petition.PDF

 

[Truth Prevails]

People are suggesting this was the method - Fergus is asking them what she used in their opinion to support their theory; Not Terri's opinion.

Cases do not sit before grand juries for 12 continuous years just as Fergus stated: cases can be taken back to the Grand Jury if/when new evidence arises.

Yet, she was never charged pertaining to a knife incident. She has been charged with other stuff, yet was found not guilty at trial. None of which has bearing on what happened to Kyron on June 4th, 2010 nor is any 'evidence' of guilt as it pertains to Kyron.

And, IMO, it may only indicate the absolute stress post-disappearance that she has been placed under by being deemed guilty without trial (the anti-thesis to the way the system is supposed to work) and being called upon "to prove her innocense" vice the reality of the requirement actually being the system requirement to use evidence to prove her guilt.

Edited for typos.

Most of us know cases don't sit continuously before the grand jury for 12 years. The words we type while we are pressed for time are being twisted and manipulated, in my opinion.

By that man's own words, in the link above, we know he was terrified in those moments when he saw her for what she was. She held a kitchen knife to his face and told him that if he talked to law enforcement 'something' was going to happen to him or his family.

He was afraid for his life because of her threats and violent actions. Let's think about that--she made a grown man afraid.

It doesn't matter if he dropped the charges later or not. When he got the restraining order against her, he was afraid for his life because of the force of violence she exhibited and he witnessed, in my opinion.

Explaining her actions as resulting from "absolute stress post-disappearance" (about 6-years removed from Kyron's disappearance) does not change what she revealed she was capable of.

Terri is not the victim.

I hope law enforcement had a nice long sit-down interview with the guy where he told them everything he had discovered.

Here is the link and quote again:

Snipped quote: Horman, 46, moved to Northern California last year to escape the 'haters' who think she killed Kyron, and that's where she met and started dating [redacted by me].

[Redacted], a Sacramento adult caregiver, filed a restraining order against his live-in girlfriend on November 28, when she held a knife up to him and threatened him and his family.

'She was trying to put a knife – a kitchen knife to my face and then she was telling me that if I talked to law enforcement that something is going to happen to me or my family,' he told KGW.

He told the news station that he now fears for his life.

'I don't even know what she's capable of,' he added.

Cristobal also said that he didn't know about his girlfriend's connection to the Horman case until recently and that he is suspicious of her.

'She has two phones. One that she calls a burner phone and one that she normally uses for her personal stuff,' he said.

No charges have been filed in the incident, but Horman was a no-show at a December 16 court hearing in Sacramento, according to KGW.

Kyron Horman's stepmother arrested for allegedly driving stolen car

Terri Horman was stopped by police and taken into custody after she was caught in Belvedere, a wealthy suburb of San Francisco, just before 1:30pm on Friday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Justice for 7-year-old Kyron!

 

[cocomod]

Sometime it does take years and multiple attempts at a grand jury to get someone behind bars. That doesn't make them not guilty of the crime, but just LE lacking that one piece of critical evidence. David Swift was just recently arrested. Shawn Atkins is finally behind bars. Neither have been convicted yet, but both have been POI since the beginning.

We need to remember to that the presumption of innocence until proven guilty is in a courtroom and with jurors. The public can speculate and presume all day long; and we do! That doesn't mean that we can't change our minds when/if the evidence is finally made public. We are all presuming based on the evidence that we DO know. We obviously in most cases do not have the mountain of evidence that LE has.

 

[Truth Prevails]

... the presumption of innocence until proven guilty is in a courtroom and with jurors. The public can speculate and presume all day long ...

Respectfully snipped, bolded, font enlargement, and color added by me.

Sometimes a comment is made that I want to thank a hundred times, maybe a million. And this is one of those comments.

Thank you.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

One theory. One scenario. She knew there would be witnesses and she also knew it would be to her advantage to limit their numbers as much as possible.

Yet if a mail exists, the number of witnesses would not matter. It would be there, readily available for LE. Terri would have been indicted in 2010.

Just as Ted Bundy took risks during his stealing escapades. He knew the risks but chose to take them.

The difference here is that Terri was part of the community, and expected to remain so after the abduction. The equivalent of Bundy here would be a stranger walking into the school, acting like he belonged and luring a boy with him. He could have been stopped, noticed or photographed. That's a risk.

However, I wonder where these hundreds of parents were when she was at the top of the stairs by the gym and Kyron was way down the hallway near his classroom door? I would think some of them would be walking in the hallway. But apparently, she had a clear line of sight.

I don't see why all hundreds of parents would be in the hallway at the same time. They'd be spread out in the school, in classrooms and the gym, or going out in the parking lot. There's no reason there had to be enough in the hallway at that point to block sight of Kyron.

<modsnip - quoted post and response have been removed>

No one could see what was going on way down that curved access road; there is no line of sight there. None. And no one at the church could see through the vehicle, in my opinion.

The pictures clearly show that the access road isn't curved until after the chain, and certainly not at the point where the photos placed the truck.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

opiates, visine, sleeping pills, rat poison, benzos, any of these things can easily kill a small child.

my grandmother was a detective and caught a woman poisoning her husband in the hospital with milkshakes.

mOO

Whatever was used had to be instantaneous, quiet and not leaving any trace in the vehicle (which was investigated and nothing was found). Would any of the above qualify?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

There are dozens of 'somethings' that could be used to knock a child out---temporarily or permanently. I am sure TH would have some ideas, being a registered nurse.

What would take a minimum of time to work, leave no trace in the truck and still be readily available to a stay at home mother?

LE will spend decades on a murder case if need be.

LE, yes. A grand jury, though? Bringing a case to a grand jury is supposed to generate an indictment - for which probable cause is needed. Yes, it can assist with the investigation, but a true bill is still the end goal. I have looked for, and haven't found, any case where an open-ended grand jury has been empaneled and heard evidence in the same case for twelve years. Any legal expert who can weigh in? @gitana1 perhaps?

What it seems like to me is that they tried the grand jury in 2010, and either got a no bill or retracted the case (if that's possible), then tried again a few years later with a new grand jury (Dede Spicher said she testified before a grand jury in 2013) with the same result. They might have tried again, but I don't think the grand jury is an active part of the investigation. Not since 2013 anyway.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Author: KGW Staff
Published: 6:02 PM PDT May 18, 2017
Updated: 6:37 PM PDT May 18, 2017

Snipped quote: The new details about grand jury activity in the Horman case came to light after a public records request. KGW requested a Multnomah County Sheriff’s office report into a murder-for-hire plot allegedly involving Terri Horman. Her ex-boyfriend said Horman tried to have him killed in Roseburg in 1990.

Investigators denied the public records, citing ongoing investigations.

The Multnomah County DA’s office referred the public records appeal to Clackamas County to avoid a conflict-of-interest.

On appeal, Clackamas County upheld the decision to keep the police reports confidential.

“These reports contain potential evidence, witnesses, and information that is helpful for developing leads as to the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman,” Semritc wrote. “The Kyron Horman investigation is active and ongoing.”

Grand jury hearing evidence in Kyron Horman case, document reveals

Portland, Ore. — A grand jury continues to hear evidence in the disappearance of Kyron Horman and has met multiple times.

www.kgw.com

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726784-Appeal-Decision-Clackamas-County-Watermark

 

[Laughing]

opiates, visine, sleeping pills, rat poison, benzos, any of these things can easily kill a small child.

my grandmother was a detective and caught a woman poisoning her husband in the hospital with milkshakes.

mOO

Dramamine or Benadryl could put him to sleep. Alcohol in the suggested milkshake could work.

IIRC it was said that TH had a drinking problem? Had she been giving Kyron alcohol to cause him to go to sleep at home?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[ReadySet]

The first I ever heard of Kyron being with a "man" at the school was from Terri herself, in emails she wrote the day after Kyron's disappearance. Is this the man she claims took him? Or was it a different man?

Again, if anyone saw this man, why wasn't a description put out? Someone must have told Terri about this man, why didn't Terri put out the description?


was seen with a male chaperone and two girls after she left Skyline School on June 4, the morning the boy disappeared.

New Terri Moulton Horman e-mails detail day of Kyron Horman's disappearance

In personal e-mails obtained by KATU, Terri Moulton Horman vents to an unidentified person about being targeted by bloggers who've implicated her in Kyron's disappearance. "I just want to scream."

www.oregonlive.com

 

[ReadySet]

Dramamine or Benadryl could put him to sleep. Alcohol in the suggested milkshake could work.

IIRC it was said that TH had a drinking problem? Had she been giving Kyron alcohol to cause him to go to sleep at home?

jmho ymmv lrr

Yes, if that's what happened, Benadryl was what I was thinking of. An overdose could have put Kyron to sleep and subdued him. Once subdued, concealed under blanket on floor or in container. He was so small. Then, easily killed with violence if the overdose didn't kill him.
jmo

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Yes, if that's what happened, Benadryl was what I was thinking of. An overdose could have put Kyron to sleep and subdued him. Once subdued, concealed under blanket on floor or in container. He was so small. Then, easily killed with violence if the overdose didn't kill him.
jmo

I think where I find this to falter is, when is she supposed to have done this, and where was she when she was waiting for whatever she gave him to take effect? Benadryl isn't instantaneous and her schedule is pretty tight as is.

 

[katydid23]

What would take a minimum of time to work, leave no trace in the truck and still be readily available to a stay at home mother?

There are many over the counter drugs that would put a child to sleep and/or unconscious pretty quickly.

Allergy pills like Benadryl, Claritin, for I.E. Chewable children's aspirin, if given by the handful, as if they were candies would take longer but would knock them out, perhaps permanently.

So would the sweet tasting antifreeze---it could be deadly and fast acting. Antifreeze can cause kidney failure and death if swallowed.

Also:

• Alcohol: when children swallow alcohol, they can have seizures, go into a coma, or even die. This is true no matter where the alcohol comes from. Mouthwash, facial cleaners, and hair tonics can have as much alcohol in them as alcoholic beverages.

LE, yes. A grand jury, though? Bringing a case to a grand jury is supposed to generate an indictment - for which probable cause is needed. Yes, it can assist with the investigation, but a true bill is still the end goal. I have looked for, and haven't found, any case where an open-ended grand jury has been empaneled and heard evidence in the same case for twelve years. Any legal expert who can weigh in? @gitana1 perhaps?

What it seems like to me is that they tried the grand jury in 2010, and either got a no bill or retracted the case (if that's possible), then tried again a few years later with a new grand jury (Dede Spicher said she testified before a grand jury in 2013) with the same result. They might have tried again, but I don't think the grand jury is an active part of the investigation. Not since 2013 anyway.

We have no idea how many times they presented evidence because the Grand Jury works secretly.