Kyron Horman General Discussion thread 2023 - 2026

[Sleuth2010]

An unknown man is consistent with how the investigation unfolded and was spoken about already in 2010. The supposed witnesses that saw Kyron and Terri leave together, not so much (if they are indeed properly identified by Desiree).

The police haven't acted on the information about these witnesses in 2015 (when Desiree first made her claim) anymore than they did in 2010 (based on her claim in the book). Perhaps they realized that CL would have been inside the school at the time, not in the parking lot. And perhaps the list released in December 2010 of all the adults at Skyline that morning didn't have CL's grandmother on it.

Of course, if Desiree had this info in 2010, she could have deposed the witnesses for her civil suit - their statements would have essentially proven her case.

A negative/ accusatory tone toward a grieving parent(s) and constant dismissal of her intuition/ knowledge/ victim information from law enforcement matters.
So does Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a from philosophy. If an abduction has two possible explanations. The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also appears in everyday life.

Kyron was suffering under his stepmother. <modsnip - mischaracterization>
This imo, was done by a sickophant step parent, who lied repeatedly. And has more mental health and soul-sickness than can be covered here.
Every logical and legal step points there.

It is ashame that the D.A. in Oregon were not equipped to deal with a case of Kyron's magnitude.

Heartprints to those grieving.

imo moo omo

 

[Truth Prevails]

So willing to accept that “witnesses” saw a man in a white truck. But not the other witnesses who saw something involving Terri.

Kaine avoided directly answering the question asked. I agree that his appearance is surprising, let alone the venue he chose to appear on? Where was he last month on the anniversary of Kyron missing? So many local reporters he could have chosen to interview with. Very interesting.

Regarding the white truck sightings--I agree. I think Nancy Grace's panel guest, Ms. Newell of KXL, has been doing her research on Reddit.

The sightings of a white truck driven by a red-haired woman interest me, though. There have been quite a few actually. Four or five that we know of. A lot of credibility was given to each witness statement and all areas were professionally searched more than once.

Here is Desiree (from her Mother's Day interview) explaining how every possible angle was exhausted, and nothing was overlooked.

[24:03] I will say that they have gone out of their way to exhaust every other angle and suspect out there. They ruled out every parent that was in the school that day, every registered sex offender in the area, every house that neighbors up to the school. They have ruled out every single possible other person. Except one. I should two.
7-year old ABDUCTED from Portland SCHOOL: a mothers fight for JUSTICE

One last thought, by accident I came across an interview Kaine did with Annette Newell, KXL, on Father's Day of this year. I think it was released on the 26th, but Ms. Newell mentions a father missing his son on Father's Day. Kaine is a victim and I'm sure he misses Kyron every Father's Day (and each and every day). However, could he have chosen Father's Day because Doug Bishop released Desiree's interview on Mother's Day? It doesn't matter but I couldn't help noticing.

All the interviews are great for raising public awareness and renewing public interest in Kyron's case. They will help to show the new DA that the public supports Desiree's and Kaine's 14-year quest for justice for their son. Kyron was 7-years old.

Justice for Kyron!

 

[Vegan1234]

Regarding the white truck sightings--I agree. I think Nancy Grace's panel guest, Ms. Newell of KXL, has been doing her research on Reddit.

The sightings of a white truck driven by a red-haired woman interest me, though. There have been quite a few actually. Four or five that we know of. A lot of credibility was given to each witness statement and all areas were professionally searched more than once.

Here is Desiree (from her Mother's Day interview) explaining how every possible angle was exhausted, and nothing was overlooked.

[24:03] I will say that they have gone out of their way to exhaust every other angle and suspect out there. They ruled out every parent that was in the school that day, every registered sex offender in the area, every house that neighbors up to the school. They have ruled out every single possible other person. Except one. I should two.
7-year old ABDUCTED from Portland SCHOOL: a mothers fight for JUSTICE

One last thought, by accident I came across an interview Kaine did with Annette Newell, KXL, on Father's Day of this year. I think it was released on the 26th, but Ms. Newell mentions a father missing his son on Father's Day. Kaine is a victim and I'm sure he misses Kyron every Father's Day (and each and every day). However, could he have chosen Father's Day because Doug Bishop released Desiree's interview on Mother's Day? It doesn't matter but I couldn't help noticing.

All the interviews are great for raising public awareness and renewing public interest in Kyron's case. They will help to show the new DA that the public supports Desiree's and Kaine's 14-year quest for justice for their son. Kyron was 7-years old.

Justice for Kyron!

That must be a local station. I’ll have to look for it!

As for ruling out every possible scenario that’s just not true. There are so many people that have made statements that they called in a tip and were never called back even after multiple attempts. Including a law professor who found a bloody sock on a hiking trail.

Another person found a bloody children’s sweater in October 2010 and zero response from anyone. How does LE know the perpetrator had Kyron change? And still why would LE not collect these items even if they didn’t think they belonged to Kyron. There are so many missing children in Oregon. DNA could have been possibly matched to someone. And now we’ll never know.

Multiple Grand juries heard this case and here we are. According to the book even Desiree’s husband said the GJ looked bored.

Web exclusive: A bloody find on Black Butte and a broken system

<strong>Stephen Kanter:</strong> Little did I know that a routine morning hike and the discovery of a bloody sock on the trailhead would lead me into a tangle of bureaucratic bungling and jurisdictional disputes and the realization that a well-meaning citizen can be thwarted by broken...

www.oregonlive.com

 

[FergusMcDuck]

A negative/ accusatory tone toward a grieving parent(s) and constant dismissal of her intuition/ knowledge/ victim information from law enforcement matters.

Facts are facts. They don't become true or false depending on the status of the person saying them.

So does Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a from philosophy. If an abduction has two possible explanations. The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also appears in everyday life.

Occam's razor doesn't supersede facts. And in this case, facts end up destroying any "simplicity" the Terri-did-it theory has. Look at all the cruft that has accumulated just to make sense of it - fake appointments, deliberate confusion, strategic parking places, Dede Spicher - and still no one has ever come up with a coherent theory.

Kyron was suffering under his stepmother.

Not really.

<modsnip - quoted post and response removed>

It is ashame that the D.A. in Oregon were not equipped to deal with a case of Kyron's magnitude.

It has nothing to do with the DAs in Oregon, who have had no issue handling high profile murder cases or cases based solely on circumstancial evidence.

But you need to have some evidence - at the very least enough to have probable cause before indicting. And it would appear that they just don't.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

and still no one has ever come up with a coherent theory.

Respectfully disagree. I know I've read coherent theories on these very threads in the past. There are plenty of theories of what may have happened that fit the timeline, IMO.

Also it is possible that people do things you wouldn't believe someone would do. (Gannon Stauch's case comes to mind.)

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Respectfully disagree. I know I've read coherent theories on these very threads in the past. There are plenty of theories of what may have happened that fit the timeline, IMO.

Also it is possible that people do things you wouldn't believe someone would do. (Gannon Stauch's case comes to mind.)

Perhaps that was a bit harsh. But the theories I've read, even here, have been very contrived, internally contradictory or glossing over important facts. If you know of some persuasive ones, I'd be happy to have them pointed out - I'm always open to changing my mind.

 

[Vegan1234]

Respectfully disagree. I know I've read coherent theories on these very threads in the past. There are plenty of theories of what may have happened that fit the timeline, IMO.

Also it is possible that people do things you wouldn't believe someone would do. (Gannon Stauch's case comes to mind.)

Except in Terri’s case she has friends and family that she still maintains relationships with that support her. It’s really unfortunate that LE didn’t put a stop to all the rumors. While I understand it’s an ongoing investigation and they can’t comment they could have quashed some of the rumors that continue to this day. Just recently Kaine said in an interview with Nancy Grace that much of what has been said was only second hand information. Yet it’s out there as the gospel. And if Terri is guilty, unless she admits to it she is never going to see a day in court. This case has been so damaged by a book, one sided media reporting and all the stalking her family and friends have endured over the years that no one of authority told them to stop. If the DA couldn’t get one of many Grand Juries who heard all the other details we have not to indict her, the chances are slim to none they ever will.

 

[ReadySet]

I wonder if there is a lonely, isolated place, beneath a canopy of fir, hemlock, and maple, and a further layer of thimble berry, fern and trillium; maybe down a ravine, even beside a little stream; a place that witnessed a horror all those years ago.

Hidden then, and even more so now, but still alive with plants and animals that witnessed death.

The sounds of jays and thrush and owls, a trout jumping in the stream, squirrels and chickadees and woodpeckers.

Seemingly bucolic and innocent, but there was violence and death that day.

There are predators there. Eagles, bobcats, coyotes and bear.

But the predator that day was human. Terry Horman Vasquez and DDS were the dangerous, merciless predators disturbing the forest that day. And Kyron Horman was the victim, now abandoned and alone.

 

[cnygrandma]

<modsnip - off topic>

I would love to see something new break on this case. We have a very well known missing child case in my state (I'm not in Oregon) and it, too, has been dormant for 30 years as far as the child's remains never being found (despite a man in prison for killing her).

Not much of a forum user these days, but thought I'd just poke at this thread to see if anyone has heard anything (factually) new.

 

[Sleuth2010]

" When Terri spoke privately with police, they told her she failed two polygraph tests. Although a judge and a lawyer for Terri have called her a suspect in court papers, she has never officially been named a suspect or person of interest by police. "

imo moo omo

Wondering if the wording should be: Terri is the TARGET of the investigation...

This news information was a year ago.
It sounds like a planned murder. Including knock-out-meds. Just incredible.

Search continues for Kyron Horman, Oregon boy whose 2010 disappearance made global headlines

Kyron Horman was excited to show off his science project before the 7-year-old disappeared from his school.

fox59.com

Now 14 years later. We still believe arrests will be made. The civil lawsuit ( if possible) could also help bring JUSTICE4KYRON.

Heartprints to his true justice seekers, friends and family.

 

[minazoe]

" When Terri spoke privately with police, they told her she failed two polygraph tests. Although a judge and a lawyer for Terri have called her a suspect in court papers, she has never officially been named a suspect or person of interest by police. "

imo moo omo

Wondering if the wording should be: Terri is the TARGET of the investigation...

This news information was a year ago.
It sounds like a planned murder. Including knock-out-meds. Just incredible.

Search continues for Kyron Horman, Oregon boy whose 2010 disappearance made global headlines

Kyron Horman was excited to show off his science project before the 7-year-old disappeared from his school.

fox59.com

Now 14 years later. We still believe arrests will be made. The civil lawsuit ( if possible) could also help bring JUSTICE4KYRON.

Heartprints to his true justice seekers, friends and family.

I know this sounds crazy..but I know someone who grew up in Portland, they know it like the back of their hand like they know it blindfolded....I feel like someone who is very intuitive should go around, maybe with a Cadaver dog..go around that area where she was driving and intuitively find places where one might turn in to find a hiding place. perhaps the wooded areas, logging areas are not where she went with Kyron, perhaps he is in the water weighted down in a container... lots of estuaries and little rivers, etc. This was a financially motivated murder as she wanted no outside heirs to her husband's money. I feel like they need to go back to all the clues and re read all her statements, writings and emails to parse out possible "tells"..I wish they could arrest her and get a search warrant for all of her belongings.

could Terri have a storage unit somewhere?

I am convinced her husband would have been the next to go missing....or found dead from " suicide" .

time to reopen it and charge Terri. mOO

 

[Vegan1234]

I was reading an interesting post in another forum. In Kaine’s recent interview with Nancy Grace he mentions he’s also gotten secondhand information that people saw Kyron get into a car not the truck with Terri. Is it possible these are the sworn statements of witnesses that Terri’s lawyer has? The only way Kaine would have been told this is from LE who had interviewed witnesses. JMO

 

[OddOneOut]

I was reading an interesting post in another forum. In Kaine’s recent interview with Nancy Grace he mentions he’s also gotten secondhand information that people saw Kyron get into a car not the truck with Terri. Is it possible these are the sworn statements of witnesses that Terri’s lawyer has? The only way Kaine would have been told this is from LE who had interviewed witnesses. JMO

I'd sure like a description of the car, people he was with, and what the police found out about it.

 

[Vegan1234]

I'd sure like a description of the car, people he was with, and what the police found out about it.

Kaine doesn’t go into that only that he has heard other information which I am assuming means witness statements.

 

[ReadySet]

Second hand information could be gossip, social media, made-up information, read, overheard, heard from a 3rd or 4th or 5th party, not new, passed down through multiple people, speculation, assumption, etc. "My grandma's cousin's neighbor's barber's doctor's friend said.."

How second hand information is defined as statements from sworn witnesses is puzzling to me.

But ask Terri Horman Vasquez, she has the answer to these questions. She has first hand information about what happened to Kyron, because she was there.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Second hand information could be gossip, social media, made-up information, read, overheard, heard from a 3rd or 4th or 5th party, not new, passed down through multiple people, speculation, assumption, etc. "My grandma's cousin's neighbor's barber's doctor's friend said.."

How second hand information is defined as statements from sworn witnesses is puzzling to me.

I agree. What Kaine describes is pretty clearly gossip or other unconfirmed information. Which is why it is interesting that he describes Desiree's claim that multiple people saw Kyron leave with Terri in the exact same way. Bear in mind, Desiree made the claim many years after the fact that it had been the police who told them about the witnesses back in 2010, despite the clear discrepancy with statements and actions from police, Kaine and even herself (before 2015). This now appears to be untrue.

So the oft spread factoid that Kyron's classmate and the bus driver saw Kyron leave with Terri shouldn't be treated as anything more that gossip.

But ask Terri Horman Vasquez, she has the answer to these questions. She has first hand information about what happened to Kyron, because she was there.

I don't think that's a claim that can be made with certainty. If Terri left at 8:45 and Kyron was taken from the school after that, how could she possibly know how he was taken? She wasn't there.

 

[ReadySet]

Right, it goes like this, for those who are not familiar with the pattern of many years. Desiree, who has the most information and just won't be quiet about it, must be continually discredited.

Terri tells the truth. Desiree does not.
You can trust Terri. You can't trust Desiree.
Everything Terri says is factual. Desiree is delusional.
Believe Terri. Desiree is mistaken, wrong, mixed up.
If only Desiree would just give up, Terri could stop worrying and relax. But Desiree keeps on and on, telling the truth, maligning poor Terri. If Desiree would just shut up and curl up and disappear. Stop talking about Kyron and reminding everyone that Terri Horman Vasquez is responsible for Kyron being gone.

That's the pattern and history that has gone on for over a decade. But you keep on, Desiree, keep on telling the truth. Because you have the truth on your side. Terri just has lies and manipulation.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Right, it goes like this, for those who are not familiar with the pattern of many years. Desiree, who has the most information and just won't be quiet about it, must be continually discredited.

Terri tells the truth. Desiree does not.
You can trust Terri. You can't trust Desiree.
Everything Terri says is factual. Desiree is delusional.

But this isn't Desiree Vs Terri. It's Desiree Vs Kaine. Desiree made a weak, unlikely claim and said it was something factual the police had told her and Kaine. Kaine, on the other hand, said that same claim was gossip on the same level as other gossip.

This isn't the first time Kaine and Desiree made divergent claims. Desiree claimed the emails from Terri she and Kaine were shown by the police said that Terri hated Kyron. Kaine disagreed with that - he hasn't seen any such emails.

This isn't just some unimportant discrepancy,. Desiree has spread her claim far and wide as fact. If it isn't, if it's just gossip as Kaine claims, there are other possibilities for how Kyron left the school and who took him. Possible sightings that are discounted because Desiree's statements are taken as fact.

Personally I'm less interested in taking sides between Terri and Desiree. I'm interested in finding out what happened to Kyron.

 

[ReadySet]

Discrediting the parents, who know much much more about what happened than the public.
Desiree's claims are "weak and unlikely." But Terri has never said anything weak, unlikely, false, delusional, mixed up, or ever outright lied.

We would know what happened to Kyron if Terri Horman Vasquez would just tell us.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Discrediting the parents, who know much much more about what happened than the public.

The parents are in blatant disagreement. Which one do we believe in the case of the witnesses-saw-Terri-leave-with-Kyron issue? If we believe one, we're discrediting the other. Kaine or Desiree?

Desiree's claims are "weak and unlikely." But Terri has never said anything weak, unlikely, false, delusional, mixed up, or ever outright lied.

She probably has. She's human, like the rest of them. Though the only lie I've been able to confirm is when she told a gaggle of reporters right after Kaine left with her child that everything was "fine".

And I don't think there's a human on the planet who has never told a lie like that

We would know what happened to Kyron if Terri Horman Vasquez would just tell us.

We would know what happened to Kyron Horman if the MCSO and the MCDA swallowed their pride, admitted they were wrong, and handed the case over to the FBI.

If we're stating beliefs as facts, that is.