Kyron Horman's general discussion thread for 2014

[MissJ]

I'm sorry, I provided the source not the link but two of the sources were actually threads here on websleuths so should be easy to look up....even the one in 2011 has a thread here.

 

[Chewy]

And how could Terri abandon her baby daughter? That's one thing we KNOW she did for certain. How many of us who are parents, step parents or guardians see ourselves voluntarily giving up baby in favor of our right not to incriminate ourselves? Of all the different parts of this case, that is the one that I can not get over. We KNOW she's done that, we've watched it happen. It's a fact.

How many innocent people would believe an attorney if they told us that if we kept telling the truth we would be arrested, so we should keep our mouths shut and lose our baby? And being given that choice over and over again through the years - your baby is now 2, now 3, and each year you know that you are innocent and COULD see your baby if you would only try again to explain your innocent actions to LE, yet keep your mouth closed and accept the loss of your child in exchange for living a half-life in your parents' house, a pariah, because telling the innocent truth MIGHT lead to an arrest, and because you somehow believe that even if the cops were totally unreasonable in disbelieving you, your expensive, talented attorneys MIGHT have no way of defending your innocent actions in front of a judge and jury?

I feel like I would fire even a very good, very high priced attorney who told me losing my baby was the only way to stay out of jail. I would be outraged to hear them say that an innocent person should abandon their baby lest they be seen as guilty, I would not believe them, and I would demand that they either find a way I could maintain my innocence while still parenting my child, or fire them and find another attorney.

All of Terri's experience with the courts have worked in her favor - even the DUI she got, she didn't do jail time and she was still allowed to drive and keep her license. She has been given child support from men who aren't the father of her child. She has no reason to think an innocent person would be railroaded in court. Yes she might believe that LE for some reason has it out for her and is focused unfairly on her and she could no longer get fair treatment from them, but would she really believe that with all the cards on the table and her own attorneys working diligently to prove all the perfectly innocent things she did that day - while also working hard to identify all the people who saw "the real kidnapper" - all of that wouldn't be enough to convince a judge and jury? Weighing her baby in one hand and the potential future chance of an unfair trial in the other hand, and deciding to lose her baby *just in case* she was arrested and *just in case* a future trial found an innocent woman guilty?

No, just no way. IMO.

Terri was accused of trying to hire a hit man to kill her husband. There's more to her situation than Kyron. After being accused of that her baby was taken away. Even if she was innocent of that, the risk of allowing her to have the baby considering all the issues that have arisen, is way too risky. So she seems to just have accepted the reality of her situation.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm sorry, I provided the source not the link but two of the sources were actually threads here on websleuths so should be easy to look up....even the one in 2011 has a thread here.

If it's easy to look up then it would be little trouble to provide a link to the thread, wouldn't it?

Alright?Sometimes I forget how old I am and miss it by a year or three.. Lol. But I gave the link in this very thread. I've been on this case since the beginning and I saw the clip of KH when he was asked could TMH possibly be telling the truth. he hesitated and admitted it was possible. he also said IIRC, in response to a question about DY blaming him and saying he should have known....that as far as he knew TMH had always been good to the kids. So if you want to label my statements as my own opinion its ok.:moo: Its been four years....I've seen a lot of interviews, Dr Phil, Nancy Grace, and various TV stations in the area. Just don't call me out for starting rumors. Everyone on here states TMH was the last person to see Kyron (no one accuses them of taking rumors from blogs) but it isn't necessarily fact. I pointed out in this very thread that on another thread or two here "What the School Staff and students say about the morning Kyron went missing" and another one that you mentioned in 2011 DY herself actually said that a man had been seen outside with Kyron and the source was reliable. KH acted as if he didn't want her to talk about it. My opinion of fence sitting is unpopular here but I don't deserve to be ridiculed about it because I verbalize my opinions just like everyone else.

Certainly but I think you're addressing this post to me by mistake as I didn't say any of the things you seem to think I have said.

My point is simply that since you know where these links are and remember what the post looked like where you posted them before, it would be far easier for you to locate them and post them again than for everybody else who reads this thread to go and look them up on their own and it would help to keep us talking about the facts of the case instead of vague remembrances.

Because, let's face it, when somebody posts and says the links are out there if just go look for them, you can pretty much take it for granted that most people won't and if they do many of them are likely to find the wrong things.

 

[JeannaT]

Could you please link where it gives the info that he was a known wanderer?

Thanks

There were stories early on that he was often able to quietly slip away from the group. There was a photo that Terri took of his class when she took the baby to class for some volunteer thing. Kyron was missing from the photo and she didn't realize it until later when she looked at the pic - and at that time made a comment (on facebook?) that he was missing again. i think we all know kids who kind of quietly slip away and he appears to have been one of them.

I'm not going to go find that discussion but if you try to find the photo of the class with the baby in her stroller in the center of the group, that's where that discussion can be found.

 

[human]

There were stories early on that he was often able to quietly slip away from the group. There was a photo that Terri took of his class when she took the baby to class for some volunteer thing. Kyron was missing from the photo and she didn't realize it until later when she looked at the pic - and at that time made a comment (on facebook?) that he was missing again. i think we all know kids who kind of quietly slip away and he appears to have been one of them.

I'm not going to go find that discussion but if you try to find the photo of the class with the baby in her stroller in the center of the group, that's where that discussion can be found.

Yes, I remember that picture now that you have talked about it.

I was very surprised at how snide her remarks were about him.

I remember the discussions in here on how clever she was to use the idea of him wandering off because of that photo. Kind of a great set up for a scenario.

If we are on the remembering path here without links, I believe I remember Grandma Moulton talking about how shy he was and how he would not be wandering around outside. Anyone remember that quote?

 

[Chewy]

Yes, I remember that picture now that you have talked about it.

I was very surprised at how snide her remarks were about him.

I remember the discussions in here on how clever she was to use the idea of him wandering off because of that photo. Kind of a great set up for a scenario.

If we are on the remembering path here without links, I believe I remember Grandma Moulton talking about how shy he was and how he would not be wandering around outside. Anyone remember that quote?

I am so biased against her, I admit it. I think the frog picture at school was a total set up as well as numerous other things. So as soon as I read this I just immediately felt it was more evidence of her premeditation.

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, I remember that picture now that you have talked about it.

I was very surprised at how snide her remarks were about him.

I remember the discussions in here on how clever she was to use the idea of him wandering off because of that photo. Kind of a great set up for a scenario.

If we are on the remembering path here without links, I believe I remember Grandma Moulton talking about how shy he was and how he would not be wandering around outside. Anyone remember that quote?

Moulton doubts Kyron wandered off on his own. It's just not in his character, she said.

"He's a little bit dreamy. He's a sweet kid. He gets distracted. He's your typical second-grader," she said. But he's no Huckleberry Finn. "He'snot real adventurous," she said. "He's a little timid. But if a friend wanted to go outside and look at something, he would follow the friend. He has a friend who he regularly gets in trouble with in the classroom because he talks too much."

Moulton said Kyron will not even venture far from his home in a wooded area. "He won't get out of sight of the house," she said. "He's pretty insecure about that. So I can't see him wandering off."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

 

[JeannaT]

I think these are two different qualities we are talking about here. It seems undeniable - in the face of photo proof - that this child was a wanderer and could slip out of the classroom unnoticed.

That's a different thing from being an adventuresome "outdoorsy" boy who wants to go explore the woods.

 

[cf0319]

I'm sorry, I provided the source not the link but two of the sources were actually threads here on websleuths so should be easy to look up....even the one in 2011 has a thread here.

Hi Miss J,
Is this the link you mean? See the underlined part.

June 9, 2010, KOIN News anchor Kohr Harlan’s interview with TP and his grandmother, Wendy Fuhrer. I transcribed this part. But it is also mentioned in a print article.

Kohr Harlan: “…Tonight an eight year old boy, a third grader and a deskmate of Kyron Horman’s, has been interviewed by the FBI and was visited by Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton as late as late this afternoon. Recently, we’re learning now that he may be providing investigators with new information that could help them provide answers. Eight year old TP remembers passing Kyron in the school hallway Friday morning as the two passed each other on the way to see different science experiments.”

TP: “I went downstairs and that was the last time I saw him. I never did see him after that.”

Harlan: “Forty-five minutes or so past nine in the morning last Friday as the science fair ended, TP and Kyron’s class was regrouping, Mrs. Porter, the regular teacher, accompanied by a substitute there to help with the science fair. It was the substitute, says TP, who noticed Kyron was missing.”

TP: “And she’s like, “Oh no, where’s Kyron? There’s only five. And Miss Porter’s like, ‘it’s alright, calm down, calm down, he’s probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water. And she’s like, “Alright, I’m going to leave. And she left.” …

Kohr Harlan: “Wendy has said TP told her he saw Kyron’s stepmom, Terri, leaving the school building; Kyron was not with his stepmom when she left school. Now TP’s grandmother says that both the FBI and the Sheriff’s office have asked them not to talk to the media there. She says they decided to go ahead and talk with some members of the media this week in an effort to keep a face on this investigation and hopefully keep it moving forward.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tAZ1FmHtcI
http://www.webcitation.org/6NBRB00QS

 

[Donjeta]

I think these are two different qualities we are talking about here. It seems undeniable - in the face of photo proof - that this child was a wanderer and could slip out of the classroom unnoticed.

That's a different thing from being an adventuresome "outdoorsy" boy who wants to go explore the woods.

That's not really proof of anything imo if there is only Terri's word that he had slipped out of the classroom unnoticed. There could easily be a photo where he's not without him being a habitual wanderer or even absent without anyone knowing that day.

 

[human]

That's not really proof of anything imo if there is only Terri's word that he had slipped out of the classroom unnoticed. There could easily be a photo where he's not without him being a habitual wanderer or even absent without anyone knowing that day.

Exactly! It was such a negative thing to say about a child on FB that I was astounded.

Was that the day she was there to celebrate Kiara's birthday?

 

[JusticeFever]

I admire all of you that keep this case going and won't give up..I wish I could follow more closely, but cases on children, especially after little Caylee, are too heartbreaking.
I pray there is new information or a lead.....someone needs to find little Kyron..

 

[Donjeta]

IIRC the mods don't like us to post minor children's names here.

 

[Shadowboy]

Re: "man in the truck" and links.

Links help us all quickly review exactly what was said by whom. For instance, the only time I see “a man in the truck” mentioned is in a question by a reporter. I haven’t seen a quote/report from LE, DY, or KH mentioning, specifically a “man in the truck.”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100455014.html

“During the news conference, they said they want to know if someone saw the Ford F250 pickup parked directly in front of Skyline School - on Skyline Road - and also a second location up the gravel road in front of the school about 60 feet from Skyline Road between 8:15 a.m. and 8:45 a.m.

They said they want to identify anyone who was in or around the truck during that half hour.

“A witness or witnesses have come forward and provided us with information about a person or persons associated with that pickup truck. … By associated we mean in or in immediate proximity to that truck,” said Rod Underhill, Multnomah County’s chief deputy district attorney.”


http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman...101688128.html

Reporter: Potentially one person in the truck... three people... the white truck, Terri's truck... can you talk...

Desiree: (interrupts) Kaine's truck (laughs)

Reporter: a little bit about that...

Reporter: Kaine's truck. I'm sorry... What are your thoughts on that new information? Do you feel as though Dede was in that truck?

Desiree: (interrupts) It just makes me feel stronger that, that there were people helping her... that Kyron saw it all and was involved and that there were other people helping her... which is what we suspected.

Reporter: So because... but do you believe that a man was spotted? I mean again, these are witness accounts, and I don't know how much information that you've been privy to about what the, what is the likeliest scenario?

Desiree: Well first of all, why would Kyron even be outside the school? Why would he even be near a truck with somebody else in it?

You know. I mean it's significant in a huge way to the case. If the timeline played out the way that it supposedly did? That contradicts that completely.

So I mean, other than that (shrugs), that's how significant it was to me.

Reporter: How authentic do you think that witness is? I mean how...

Desiree: (interrupts, shifts eyes to side) Very authentic.

Reporter: So it's a credible...

Desiree: (interrupts, shifts eyes to side and down) Yep.

Reporter: ...witness.

Reporter: And what exactly are they claiming that they saw?

Kaine: (audibly sighs/intakes breath, clears throat)

Kaine: Well I think, Sarah, I think to be more direct about it... I think that law enforcement needs to determine that still.

Desiree: Yeah, that part.

 

[rachaellouise]

I wasn't around when Kyron first went missing so hoping you more experienced OG sleuthers can help. It seems Kaine stood by TH until they divorced and then he suddenly switched into thinking it was her. Does anyone have any theories as to why this is? I mean he was living with TH when this all was going on so surely he must have some insight or reason to think so, right? Also what was the official reason they gave for divorcing? TIA

 

[Chewy]

I'm pretty sure it was her contracting his murder.

 

[Jo in Calif]

[modsnip]

Please note that TP said that Kyron was noticed missing when the class was re assembling after their tour, not before the tour of the other classrooms, if this was the case then there should have been other children, not to mention the chaperone for Kyrons group, that saw Kyron long after Terry had left the school, sorry this never happened.
One of the reasons that the FBI and LE asked TP and his grandmother not to talk to newsmedia about this story, not factual accounts, or some of the other students, sub teacher, that has been said was not the case, and Kyrons teacher would have backed this up.

 

[cf0319]

This article puts Kyron at the school when Terri was at Fred Meyers, making it impossible for Terri to have taken him:


Kyron Horman search attracts 1,200 tips, but still no sign of the Portland second-grader

Published: Monday, June 07, 2010, 8:40 PM Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:23 PM

"Kyron was last seen inside Skyline at 9 a.m. last Friday, a busy day thanks to a morning science fair and afternoon talent show. Authorities launched an intensive search and investigation into his disappearance that afternoon and continued through the weekend.

On Monday, 18 certified search and rescue volunteers resumed sweeping the area near the school as deputies canvassed the neighborhood, handing out fliers and jotting down license plate numbers of passing vehicles.

Kelly Ramirez, the sister of Kyron's mother, Desiree Horman, issued a statement on behalf of the family thanking searchers and the community.

She said her sister is struggling to keep positive. "There's no words. It's unfathomable," she said. "You just try to keep positive. We firmly believe that he will be found. We trust in the system. We know that everything humanly possible is being done."

Ramirez said the most important thing anyone could do was print fliers with Kyron's photo and post them wherever possible.

"Kyron needs to be seen," she said. "Above all, do not give up hope, as we certainly never will. He is out there and we are going to find him and bring him home safe where he belongs."

Gates, the incident commander, said he was feeling closer to finding the boy "because we're getting leads that we're following up on."

"We're also eliminating areas that Kyron is not," he said.

Some tips have reached into Washington state, he said, without elaborating. At the same time, he expressed frustration that some people have called in nonsensical tips. "Since he did his science fair project on tree frogs," Gates said, "they'll call and say, 'He went to live with the tree frogs.' It wastes a lot of time."

Authorities had previously reported that Kyron's stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, was the last to see the boy about 8:45 a.m. as he walked to his classroom. The two had attended a science fair, where the bespectacled boy with the gap-toothed grin posed for the photo now showing up on the missing fliers.

But investigators now say Kyron was last seen at 9 a.m. inside the school, but declined to say by whom or where.

Inside the long red brick building, Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said mental health coounselors and substitute teachers were available to help kids and staffers cope. Twice as many students stayed home as usual, Shelby said, 45 compared to the typical 20 absentees."


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_attracts_1.html


Amazingly, the Oregonian later edited the article to remove all of the references to Kyron being at the school at 9:00 a.m.

 

[cf0319]

Sorry for this serial posting, but I just realized that this is why so many people have said that they remember reading somewhere that Kyron was seen at 9:00 a.m. but can't find the link. It's because the Oregonian edited it out of their article, while leaving the title and URL the same. I retrieved the original from articles that had been posted on various boards.

 

[Jo in Calif]

This article puts Kyron at the school when Terri was at Fred Meyers, making it impossible for Terri to have taken him:


Kyron Horman search attracts 1,200 tips, but still no sign of the Portland second-grader

Published: Monday, June 07, 2010, 8:40 PM Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:23 PM

"Kyron was last seen inside Skyline at 9 a.m. last Friday, a busy day thanks to a morning science fair and afternoon talent show. Authorities launched an intensive search and investigation into his disappearance that afternoon and continued through the weekend.

On Monday, 18 certified search and rescue volunteers resumed sweeping the area near the school as deputies canvassed the neighborhood, handing out fliers and jotting down license plate numbers of passing vehicles.

Kelly Ramirez, the sister of Kyron's mother, Desiree Horman, issued a statement on behalf of the family thanking searchers and the community.

She said her sister is struggling to keep positive. "There's no words. It's unfathomable," she said. "You just try to keep positive. We firmly believe that he will be found. We trust in the system. We know that everything humanly possible is being done."

Ramirez said the most important thing anyone could do was print fliers with Kyron's photo and post them wherever possible.

"Kyron needs to be seen," she said. "Above all, do not give up hope, as we certainly never will. He is out there and we are going to find him and bring him home safe where he belongs."

Gates, the incident commander, said he was feeling closer to finding the boy "because we're getting leads that we're following up on."

"We're also eliminating areas that Kyron is not," he said.

Some tips have reached into Washington state, he said, without elaborating. At the same time, he expressed frustration that some people have called in nonsensical tips. "Since he did his science fair project on tree frogs," Gates said, "they'll call and say, 'He went to live with the tree frogs.' It wastes a lot of time."

Authorities had previously reported that Kyron's stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, was the last to see the boy about 8:45 a.m. as he walked to his classroom. The two had attended a science fair, where the bespectacled boy with the gap-toothed grin posed for the photo now showing up on the missing fliers.

But investigators now say Kyron was last seen at 9 a.m. inside the school, but declined to say by whom or where.

Inside the long red brick building, Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said mental health coounselors and substitute teachers were available to help kids and staffers cope. Twice as many students stayed home as usual, Shelby said, 45 compared to the typical 20 absentees."


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_attracts_1.html


Amazingly, the Oregonian later edited the article to remove all of the references to Kyron being at the school at 9:00 a.m.

You bet they edited the article because he was not seen "inside the school," at 9:00 am.