LA - Michael Noel, mentally ill man killed by deputy

[Teche]

I am a retired LPC and often times families call the sheriff's dept. to "transport" individuals to the hospital. I can't imagine that a mentally ill and agitated individual would respond favorably to uniformed LE.

 

[Teche]

Our parish is extremely rural and has been hit hard with burglaries where the break-ins are occurring in day and night hours. The thieves are going after guns, bows, rifles, 4 wheelers, boats, etc. Homeowners are on high alert and most are packing. KATC and KLFY are the local news stations. I believe that their news would be more up-to-date and accurate then the Daily Mail.

 

[scmom]

Examining the use of force continuum may help understand whether a shooting is valid or not.
http://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/Pages/continuum.aspx

 

[bluesneakers]

This is from the 22nd. Why hasn't there been an update from LE yet?

Mentally ill Breaux Bridge man dead as officer-involved shooting investigation continues

His mother called the sheriff’s office to help her with her son who was having a breakdown; something she had done many times before.

“They could have gave him a shot, they could have put him in a jacket. You know so many things they could have think about doing other than shooting him.” said Noel.

“One of them pulled Michael close to him and they shot him.” said Noel.

Since the investigation is still active, state police could only confirm that one man is dead after the officer involved shooting.

 

[Teche]

I'm not sure how it is in other regions, but here when an officer shoots an individual, LA. State Police conduct an investigation. Our sheriff usually does not make a statement until they investigate. I believe that all law enforcement need continued training on dealing with the mentally ill. Longterm treatment and in-patient hospitals are lacking, poor medication compliance make it difficult for the community.

 

[bluesneakers]

I am a retired LPC and often times families call the sheriff's dept. to "transport" individuals to the hospital. I can't imagine that a mentally ill and agitated individual would respond favorably to uniformed LE.

Maybe, maybe not, but in this case his mother said she's done this before so he might know what to expect. Although IMO it doesn't matter because it's not on him to act favorably. If he's in crisis and/or experience psychosis he might not be in control of his thoughts or actions. We can't expect a sick person to not act sick just because the police are there.

JMO

 

[Teche]

Do you know where they would have taken him?

I would think that he would be transported to a hospital Lafayette or if there's space at the Joseph Tyler Mental Health Center. Joseph Tyler Center is the regional mental health facility that provides counseling/medicine management. It has a few inpatient beds. Our large government owned hospital closed down after years of operation. It had a small psych. unit. The hospital was recently reopened by Lafayette General Medical Center with a collaboration with LSU Medical Center (medical school). It's a teaching hospital. I don't think it has a psych rotation.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm not sure how it is in other regions, but here when an officer shoots an individual, LA. State Police conduct an investigation. Our sheriff usually does not make a statement until they investigate. I believe that all law enforcement need continued training on dealing with the mentally ill. Longterm treatment and in-patient hospitals are lacking, poor medication compliance make it difficult for the community.

It might be different because in the other officer shootings I've followed LE has made a statement by now. Maybe holding off is the way to handle it so they don't make claims they're forced to change later. But it would still be nice to get an update.

I feel like this case isn't getting nearly as much attention as others and that troubles me.

 

[Teche]

Maybe, maybe not, but in this case his mother said she's done this before so he might know what to expect. Although IMO it doesn't matter because it's not on him to act favorably. If he's in crisis and/or experience psychosis he might not be in control of his thoughts or actions. We can't expect a sick person to not act sick just because the police are there.

JMO

I agree with you. I don't think he was in control of his thoughts or actions. My point is that mentally ill individuals and their families have very, very little services and available options. My heart goes out to the family. I can't imagine having to face this difficult journey.

 

[katydid23]

His mother called the sheriff’s office to help her with her son who was having a breakdown; something she had done many times before.

“They could have gave him a shot, they could have put him in a jacket. You know so many things they could have think about doing other than shooting him.” said Noel.

“One of them pulled Michael close to him and they shot him.” said Noel.



BBM

What kind of a shot can a cop give someone? What kind of a jacket? Is she referring to a straitjacket? I think she is mixing up patrol officers with psych techs. Patrol officers do not give shots or use strait jackets.

They tased him twice and he was still being aggressive and combative. That means he was very amped up. If it is true that the officer pulled him close, then I am going to speculate that it was in reaction to the man trying to grab his weapon.

 

[Teche]

It might be different because in the other officer shootings I've followed LE has made a statement by now. Maybe holding off is the way to handle it so they don't make claims they're forced to change later. But it would still be nice to get an update.

I feel like this case isn't getting nearly as much attention as others and that troubles me.

I'll keep checking the news station's FB. They post all kinds of updates...weather, traffic reports nonstop.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe, maybe not, but in this case his mother said she's done this before so he might know what to expect. Although IMO it doesn't matter because it's not on him to act favorably. If he's in crisis and/or experience psychosis he might not be in control of his thoughts or actions. We can't expect a sick person to not act sick just because the police are there.

JMO

No, he is not in control of his thoughts or actions. That is what makes it very dangerous and volatile for the officers to deal with.

 

[bluesneakers]

From the Coroner's office. This isn't the same parish - I couldn't find a link for St. Martin Parish - but I assume it's statewide. Teche, do you know?

Mental Health

An Order for Protective Custody may be completed by a peace officer, emergency medical technician or other credible person when, to the best of his/her knowledge and belief, a person is mentally ill OR suffering from substance abuse and is in need of immediate treatment to protect the person or others from physical harm.
...
The Order for Protective Custody allows law enforcement personnel to enter a residence where the subject is known to be, and take that subject, by force if necessary, to the nearest Emergency Room for a psychiatric evaluation.
...
Any person that wants to submit an O.P.C. must come in person to the St. Tammany Parish Coroner’s Office, at which time they will be required to fill out and sign an affidavit which includes a statement of facts, including observations, leading to the conclusion that the person is mentally ill, dangerous to himself/herself or others, suffering from substance abuse, or gravely disabled. Orders of Protective Custody can not be done over the telephone.

If I'm reading this correctly it means his mother didn't just call 911 that night and the officers were dispatched.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'll keep checking the news station's FB. They post all kinds of updates...weather, traffic reports nonstop.

Especially weather! I was just on KLFY's FB page and checked their photos thinking it might be a shortcut to find the story. It was ALL weather maps.

 

[Tawny]

I'll keep checking the news station's FB. They post all kinds of updates...weather, traffic reports nonstop.

Please keep us updated! Thank you for posting

 

[Teche]

Dr. Joseph Tyler Mental Health Center is named after wonderful doctor that worked at the mental health center when he was killed by a chronically ill mental health patient. He was beloved by many.

 

[Teche]

Especially weather! I was just on KLFY's FB page and checked their photos thinking it might be a shortcut to find the story. It was ALL weather maps.

The news stations also give constant updates on fishing, hunting (wild boar, deer, alligator, duck) and local festivals.

 

[katydid23]

Barbara Noel said her son was afraid of hospitals, courthouses and police, but law enforcement had successfully intervened before to help control him during a breakdown.

She said her son requested a mental health professional to come Monday.

"I don't think they (police) know anything to do about that — how to deal with a mental patient," she said.

Higgins said deputies receive crisis intervention training and are trained to de-escalate a situation when an individual is suffering a mental crisis.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/12/michael_noel_mentally_ill_man.html


So it appears that these LEOs are trained to deescalate these situations. And as I have previously stated, it is not always effective. The man was diagnosed as a bipolar, paranoid schizophrenic. It will not always be possible to calm him down.

 

[Montjoy]

It's worth bearing in mind that just because some group has received some training, it doesn't mean that they are capable, or inclined, to use or apply what they've been taught. The training may have been effective, but the application may have been indifferent or inept. We'll need to wait and see.

 

[katydid23]

It's worth bearing in mind that just because some group has received some training, it doesn't mean that they are capable, or inclined, to use or apply what they've been taught. The training may have been effective, but the application may have been indifferent or inept. We'll need to wait and see.

If there was an effective way to teach someone to calm someone and convince them to come along to the mental hospital, why couldn't that training work for the family members or the EMT's ? Why only the LEOs? I say because the training also relies upon brute force and compulsion. And when that is used , sometimes, bad things happen.