Laos poisonings

[vls12345]

Laos methanol deaths: Three more tourists named

The local governor visited the hostel in which some of the victims were staying, promising justice for those responsible.

www.bbc.com

 

[Skigh]

Laos doctor who treated 'methanol poisoning' victim recalls tragedy

Holly Bowles, 19, (pictured) of Melbourne in Australia, died from suspected methanol poisoning on Friday during her travels, just one day after the death of her best friend.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 83851]

How callous do you have to be to poison your guests? Not just this particular bar but the region as a whole where the door is open for methanol to be sold as ethanol. I really feel for the families.

 

[Charlot123]

How callous do you have to be to poison your guests? Not just this particular bar but the region as a whole where the door is open for methanol to be sold as ethanol. I really feel for the families.

“Callous” is not the word. I wonder if it was done intentionally. I think it needs to be investigated as an intentional crime, and here is why.

Regular alcohol production is cheap, too. Methanol is not a typical part of alcohol production - there may be trace amounts of methanol produced during fermentation of alcohol, but to make ethanol and end up with 50/50 ethanol and methanol is unheard of. Usually even people who illegally homebrew alcohol know their chemistry.

I have heard about people intentionally consuming methanol instead of ethanol. But all cases were almost intentional, in chronic alcoholics during prohibition, when people could not get their hands on regular alcohol. That methanol is highly toxic is no secret, and methanol-induced blindness is well-known, too. So usually the consumer would be a chronic alcoholic in withdrawal.

These are not tourists. Yes, in a tourist hub, people overdrink. Maybe diluting alcohol with a cheaper version would bring additional money. But who would mix methanol with ethanol for this purpose? Given that these two are applied in different areas of industry?

I can see two types of personality: a) someone who has zero idea about methanol toxicity but has unlimited access to it; b) some crazy poisoner who knows very well of its effects and just wants to kill people.

Why I think group a) is unlikely. We are talking about someone selling alcohol in bars - in this case own barmen and waiters will easily get poisoned, too. And we had no reports of it happening to locals.

But someone from group b) who had access to source of alcohol, added methanol to it and knows not to consume itself, would be at the end point of sales in the bar, or perhaps some crazy waitress bringing in drinks.

Don’t we see the preponderance of young women among the victims?

And there is a point, free “welcoming” alcohol bar in the hostel, right? Where alcohol would be replenished and usually neither barmen nor waiters would use it.

ETA: I can imagine that the owner of the bar was buying alcohol from some local point of fermentation, someone like a producer of “moonshine whiskey”, and the production is so technologically bad that it is contaminated with methanol. But this place can be easily located.

 

[Charlot123]

I googled about moonshine whiskey and apparently, one can get poisoned by methanol, so maybe it was the local illegal producer or alcohol

The Dangers Of Moonshine

The prohibition-era liquor, moonshine, was once outlawed by the government for its lack of regulations and its brewers dodging taxes.

www.alcoholhelp.com

Here is an interesting article. Apparently, methanol poisoning is on the rise, one can dilute alcohol with cleaning solution, etc. There are lab methods to detect methanol and scientists are working at a smartphone app that will do it.

How can I tell if there’s methanol in my drink?

It looks, smells and tastes like regular alcohol – so how can we protect ourselves after several people died after likely consuming methanol in Laos this week?

www.theguardian.com

ETA: good article about antidotes and methanol in general. (Remember: licensed bars - unopened alcohol containers with well-known labels)

for health professionals - MSF

Things Health Professionals Need to Know Methanol Poisoning Exposure to Methanol Symptoms Diagnosis Treatments Prevention Methanol Poisoning Methanol is a colorless organic alcohol with mild alcoholic odour, commonly used as a solvent, fuel or antifreeze in the chemical industry. Methanol as a...

methanolpoisoning.msf.org

 

[Skigh]

Major development about Laos hostel over deadly methanol poisoning

Multiple staff from a backpacker hotel at the centre of suspected mass poisoning in Laos which have been arrested by police.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Multiple staff from a backpacker hostel at the centre of a suspected mass poisoning in Laos, which claimed the lives of six foreign tourists, have been arrested by police.

Eight employees, aged 23 to 47, from the Nana Backpacker Hostel in Vang Vieng are in custody following arrests by police on Monday, a local news site reported.

All of those detained are believed to be Vietnamese nationals.

 

[Dotta]

"Experts reveal the surprising antidote to methanol poisoning that EVERY traveller should know about."

Experts reveal the surprising antidote to methanol poisoning

Methanol, a potent chemical , is often mixed into counterfeit booze to boost profits in some parts of the world due to being cheap to produce with just a mouthful enough to potentially kill.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Major development about Laos hostel over deadly methanol poisoning

Multiple staff from a backpacker hotel at the centre of suspected mass poisoning in Laos which have been arrested by police.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 83851]

It might be easier for the authorities to blame some bad actors rather than deal with the counterfeit alcohol trade. Either way I hope tourists boycott all areas where poisonings have occurred.

And the dailymail article mentions that the methanol was in beer as well as spirits, and if that’s true then many young people should not trust the beer either.

 

[Charlot123]

It might be easier for the authorities to blame some bad actors rather than deal with the counterfeit alcohol trade. Either way I hope tourists boycott all areas where poisonings have occurred.

And the dailymail article mentions that the methanol was in beer as well as spirits, and if that’s true then many young people should not trust the beer either.

I, too, think that a group of foreigners from a neighboring country have little protection, that’s all. Vietnam and Laos are competing as cheap safe destinations, so that, too.
I Googled “tourism in Laos” and the first thing AI came up with as precautions was “Avoid buying medicine from pharmacies, as many drugs are counterfeit”.

So a not too-developed country has entered the list of popular tourist destinations. There are things to see in Laos (about 15 years ago my relative visited it; safe, no roads so you have to order a helicopter, and bring industrial-strength repellent; otherwise, super interesting, he said). But of course, if Laos has to deal with counterfeit drinks and counterfeit medicines, it has to act swift if it wants to stay a popular Asian route.

 

[iamshadow21]

Other backpackers who had stayed at the hostel and got sick tried to leave reviews to warn future guests. The reviews were deleted.

'Do not go here': Backpackers tried to warn others about Laos hostel amid methanol poisoning scandal

In the days after backpackers in Laos began falling violently ill due to suspected methanol poisoning, travellers tried desperately to warn each other about the hostel at the centre of the scandal.

amp.abc.net.au

 

[Charlot123]

Other backpackers who had stayed at the hostel and got sick tried to leave reviews to warn future guests. The reviews were deleted.

'Do not go here': Backpackers tried to warn others about Laos hostel amid methanol poisoning scandal

In the days after backpackers in Laos began falling violently ill due to suspected methanol poisoning, travellers tried desperately to warn each other about the hostel at the centre of the scandal.

amp.abc.net.au

How easy is it to delete Google reviews? Is it Google who decides what is slander, and what is not? Essentially, how many times money had changed hands, and between whom?

 

[airportwoman]

How callous do you have to be to poison your guests? Not just this particular bar but the region as a whole where the door is open for methanol to be sold as ethanol. I really feel for the families.

I have a feeling it was not done on purpose, but that the bar had purchased some cheaper, "homemade" concoction. Methanol and ethanol distill out at very similar temperatures, and this kind of thing has killed many, many people over the centuries. "Ginger jake" was a common cause of disability and death during Prohibition.

There's a drug called fomepizole that can be used for methanol or antifreeze poisoning, and if that isn't available, we mixed up dehydrated alcohol in some D5 or D10, mainly for the extra calories. These substances dislodge the toxin from the receptors and enable them to be excreted.

ETA: "D" means dextrose, and the 5 or 10 was the percentage. Anything "thicker" than D10 can't be infused into a peripheral vein.

 

[Charlot123]

I have a feeling it was not done on purpose, but that the bar had purchased some cheaper, "homemade" concoction. Methanol and ethanol distill out at very similar temperatures, and this kind of thing has killed many, many people over the centuries. "Ginger jake" was a common cause of disability and death during Prohibition.

There's a drug called fomepizole that can be used for methanol or antifreeze poisoning, and if that isn't available, we mixed up dehydrated alcohol in some D5 or D10, mainly for the extra calories. These substances dislodge the toxin from the receptors and enable them to be excreted.

ETA: "D" means dextrose, and the 5 or 10 was the percentage. Anything "thicker" than D10 can't be infused into a peripheral vein

Homemade, probably, something very local and very badly fermented, and maybe they also added something containing methanol to make it taste more “alcoholic-like”.

BTW, here is the information about counterfeit medications in delta Mekong area

WHO tries to tackle problem of counterfeit medicines in Asia - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is the problem with counterfeit alcohol - with the explanation why and where it happens. Again, Mekong delta is very poor and the place where these victims ended up was the last point of a backpacking tour.

Methanol poisoning deaths highlight SE Asia's fake alcohol problem - BBC News

The deaths of five tourists after apparently drinking tainted drinks highlight the wider issue of bootleg alcohol.

www.bbc.com

(I was surprised about warning regarding Bali and Indonesia in general.)

 

[Dotta]

"Heartbroken mother of British woman, 28,
fatally poisoned by methanol at hostel in Laos
recounts 'nightmare' 16-hour journey to be by her dying daughter's side -
before switching off her life support days later."

Mother of Brit woman poisoned in Laos reveals her final moments

Sue White, 61, has said she wants to warn people who are travelling to be careful about what they drink after her 28-year-old daughter Simone died of methanol poisoning at hostel in Laos.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"Two teaspoons is likely to blind you... one shot... 30 millimetres will kill you."

Parents of teens fatally poisoned in Laos speak to 60 Minutes in exclusive interview

Bianca Jones and Holly Bowles both died from methanol poisoning after a night out drinking at the Nana Bac...

www.9news.com.au