Laura Babcock: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich charged w/Murder in the First Degree #1

[n1989]

Jftr- I did not know DM or MS or CN personally.

 

[andreww]

I'm going to have to agree with n1989 on this one. I think people here have lost sight of the fact that LB is a victim here. And, I don't see any evidence to suggest that her mental health had anything directly to do with her being murdered or coming in to contact with DM. I believe the fact that she was basically homeless had more to do with it than her health. Until her mental health situation actually becomes relevant, I think we should lay off out of respect for the victim.

That said, is it known where LB first came in to contact with DM?

 

[n1989]

Can you disclose what her diagnosis was? Also, do you know DM and her relationship with him? TIA

I know what she told me personally about it, but I'm not sure that's something I should disclose. It could also incite arguments I'm not here to fight, and not all the doctors agreed as some other article said. There was according to her, one prevalent diagnosis though. I will say again, she seemed almost relieved to have a name to put beside it because it was like a step in the direction of getting better.

 

[matou]

I agree andrew. I think she was an easy target for some sick and sadistic people she knew. We know these two are involved in at least one other death AFTER hers. If someone only wanted to shut her up for some reason, why go on to kill two other people??? High risk behaviour, thrill kills. The death of Wayne Millard being called a suicide must have made DM (and MS) think they were not suspected with anything at all. Then kill a guy for his truck??

 

[n1989]

IMHO, LB's family and friends were not as vocal and did not mobilise in the same way that TB's did. His friends and family very quickly engaged with LE, social media and MSM to aid in the search. He came from a community where many people pitched in and helped with the search. It was obvious that he was an "every man" and people cared about him. Leaving for long periods of time without contacting anyone was out of character for him. LE would not get a free pass by not acting on the information.

I find it sad that LBs family was more passive in their approach. I can see how they would want to believe that she would just come home and may have felt uncomfortable making her story too public. Maybe they felt embarrassed that her mental illness and alleged drug use and prostitution should be made public. LE may have felt that if her family didn't seem to make any demands in them maybe she wasn't worth looking for? After all it sounds like her parents were trying the "tough love" approach. SL could be written off as a disgruntled ex boyfriend of a prostitute. The FB page didn't seem to have a lot of traction and until her case was associated with TB and DM there was no MSM involvement.

I am trying to be optimistic that perhaps in future there will be some sort of standardised protocol and level of support in missing persons cases. Perhaps this is too simplistic but my feeling is that DM and MS could have been stopped.

Agree. I felt like I should "mind my business" a lot personally.

 

[matou]

n1989, are there any places that Laura had traveled to that she discussed with anyone in the time around her disappearance or before? Was she planning to go anywhere on a trip? What do you think about the story that the Ontario Coroner's office do not have her remains? This makes me think she may be located outside of Ontario. Sorry to be so blunt about referring to her as remains.

 

[JPC]

Agree. I felt like I should "mind my business" a lot personally.

How so? Were you discouraged from not being more vocal? I can't even imagine being in the position of the Bosma family/friends or Babcock Family/Friends and knowing what the "right thing" to do is beyond contacting the authorities.

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

 

[n1989]

n1989, are there any places that Laura had traveled to that she discussed with anyone in the time around her disappearance or before? Was she planning to go anywhere on a trip? What do you think about the story that the Ontario Coroner's office do not have her remains? This makes me think she may be located outside of Ontario. Sorry to be so blunt about referring to her as remains.

No trips that I knew of.
I have my own theory about the remains issue which I will save for now. it has been said here before though. It makes you wonder if there are any remains to be found at all. But then you wonder how this conclusion could even be made at this point. No need to apologize, it is what it is and I thank you very much for your respect and continued interest in this case.

 

[matou]

I think she WAS brought to the farm. Where else could they have brought her without being seen or have any witnesses? Why did DM keep that farm anyway if he "bought it to build a future for him and his fiancee" in 2011? He never sold it or had any interest in selling it after things soured in his relationship with his ex IMO. Why didn't he sell it? What was he using it for? If there was evidence of a body there from 2012 then I would see why he would keep it. JMO

 

[SideKick]

In regards to CAMH, I was with someone who needed help immediately. We were downtown Toronto and walked into CAMH at College & Spadina..... The wait was 15 min before she saw a Dr.
It was fantastic .... No need for referrals, waiting for how many days?

My heart goes out to Laura and her family. I can't think of a more upsetting time they are going thru.

 

[Sillybilly]

A better question is, why minimize Laura’s drug problems and blame them on severe psychiatric problems that obviously did not exist 14 months earlier?

<rsbm>

Laura was 23 years old when she disappeared. Many underlying psychological disorders do not manifest themselves until young adulthood.

 

[SnooperDuper]

In regards to CAMH, I was with someone who needed help immediately. We were downtown Toronto and walked into CAMH at College & Spadina..... The wait was 15 min before she saw a Dr.
It was fantastic .... No need for referrals, waiting for how many days?

My heart goes out to Laura and her family. I can't think of a more upsetting time they are going thru.

Yes, CAMH has an emergency department, and just as you can walk into your local hospital and seek assistance, you can stroll into CAMH when in crisis and get help

http://www.camh.ca/en/hospital/care...Department/Pages/guide_emergency_service.aspx

There are even crisis lines that you can call that will send a mobile team to your location.

http://www.camh.ca/en/hospital/health_information/finding_help/Pages/distress_crisis_resources.aspx

CAMH's average emergency wait times are a bit higher, in the order of 5 hours or so for complex conditions and 2 hours for uncomplicated cases.

http://www.ontariowaittimes.com/er/...0&hosptID=3513&str=C&view=0&period=0&expand=0

 

[Wondergirl]

Just as an aside, I had a close relative suicidal, begging to be placed in a hospital for treatment of mental issues, I finally drove her to Toronto to CAMH in desperation one night, and saw enough there in 4 hours to be absolutely shocked at the state of some people and the system. DR. couldn't do anything for her, told her they could put get in a bed which they didn't have, she would have to wait for days in Hall for one and when she did get to a bed, she would probably go backwards because at least now she was up and functioning somewhat (eg. walking).

There are not alot of good avenues in our health care system. It is a system. One that is lacking resources and tapped out from what I have seen. I'm not kidding. We had to call an ambulance just to get her to see a Dr. She was that bad

Hats off to all the health care professionals who stick with it. Heroes in my books

Jmo

 

[Wondergirl]

Her family was unrealistically optimistic/had little sense of urgency in my opinion. I really feel bad for them and hope they can find peace in all of this one day, it did seem like there was some embarrassment around the circumstances.
It was a weird spot to be in for sure.

Thank-you for your insight.

What do you think happened to Laura?

 

[SnooperDuper]

If there was a failure to provide needed care to LB at CAMH, or through any other agency; if she truly fell through the cracks, it should be reported to the Ontario Omsbudsman

http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/Make-a-Complaint/Complaint-Submission.aspx

All complaint information is kept strictly confidential. The Ombudsman does not identify anyone without their consent.

Justice for Laura.

 

[n1989]

If there was a failure to provide needed care to LB at CAMH, or through any other agency; if she truly fell through the cracks, it should be reported to the Ontario Omsbudsman

http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/Make-a-Complaint/Complaint-Submission.aspx

All complaint information is kept strictly confidential. The Ombudsman does not identify anyone without their consent.

Something her family has to do- again part of the problem. She wasn't taken seriously enough by anyone in the position to do something for her. That's what I'm trying to say and that's what makes it so sad.
As someone who isn't a family member- who am I to stand here and declare there was wrong doing?

 

[bessie]

:trainwreck:
​

 

[n1989]

Thank-you for your insight.

What do you think happened to Laura?

I will not explicitly disclose this. Sorry.

 

[bessie]

MOD NOTE and REMINDERS:

Regarding Laura Babcock, no member has been verified as insider.

Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

If a member wants to post as a professional (a lawyer, shrink, and so on) or as a local/knows the people involved then they must email us at the following email.

[email protected]

Please include:

The case
Your Websleuths name
Your phone number and a good time to call
Your real name
Location (City and State)
In the subject line please put your user name and which case you are asking to be verified on

All info will be kept strictly confidential.

Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Victim Friendly

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way and ONLY IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CASE.

Attacking WS Moderators & Administrators:

Posting in a thread to comment on, question, or criticize moderator or administrator action is not appropriate in a public forum. Please utilize the board&#8217;s Private Message function, or email staff, if you wish to discuss these issues. As long as you bring up your concerns maturely and civilly to the moderator or administrator in question, we will do our best to address your concerns fairly and promptly.

Here are the &#8220;Dos&#8221; and &#8220;Don&#8217;ts&#8221; of addressing your concerns to moderators or administrators:

Do be civil and polite. Bring up your concerns in a mature and respectful manner. If you are contacting us because you violated forum guidelines, be adult enough to admit your mistake. If your ID has been locked for some reason, talking politely to us about it in private, via e-mail or private message, can get your ID reinstated in many cases.

Do not be derogatory or insulting towards us. You will not get what you want by name calling or bashing us.

All we ask is that you treat us the way you would want us to treat you. If you treat us with respect, we will do the same for you.

Realize that a lot goes on behind the scenes. If you are thinking to yourself "Those moderators are either total idiots or they know something I do not", it's safe to assume we know something you do not.

 

[redheart]

Thanks for speaking up, n1989. I have no connections to this case <modsnip>

I too had someone close to me who was in desperate need of help, we convinced him to go to an emergency department and he and was turned away - this was at a hospital in the KW region. He eventually got help, but in the meantime a lot of damage was done, and it took a major psychotic episode.