Laura Babcock: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich charged w/Murder in the First Degree #1

[n1989]

Thanks for speaking up, n1989. I have no connections to this case <modsnip>

I too had someone close to me who was in desperate need of help, we convinced him to go to an emergency department and he and was turned away - this was at a hospital in the KW region. He eventually got help, but in the meantime a lot of damage was done, and it took a major psychotic episode.

The problem is it can really take a long time to get the kind of help you need. Meds or no meds. No healthcare system is perfect nor is any police organization.

 

[Snoofo]

If there was a failure to provide needed care to LB at CAMH, or through any other agency; if she truly fell through the cracks, it should be reported to the Ontario Omsbudsman

http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/Make-a-Complaint/Complaint-Submission.aspx

All complaint information is kept strictly confidential. The Ombudsman does not identify anyone without their consent.

Justice for Laura.

Unfortunately OO has no authority over what he calls MUSH: Municipalities Universities School boards and Hospitals.
(Ont premier) Kathleen Wynne is planning on reintroducing Bill 179 to expand his powers.

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[swedie]

No trips that I knew of.
I have my own theory about the remains issue which I will save for now. it has been said here before though. It makes you wonder if there are any remains to be found at all. But then you wonder how this conclusion could even be made at this point. No need to apologize, it is what it is and I thank you very much for your respect and continued interest in this case.

I don't believe anyone is intentionally trying to drag Laura through the mud, make her out to be a bad person or at fault for her own demise. The fact is is that she is was involved with two alleged murderers and so very tragically became one of their victims. People are sleuthing and trying to understand the connection of the three, or at least LB and DM and what brought them together, the type of relationship they had and what possessed DM and MS to allegedly murder her (and the other two victims WM and TB).

It's apparent and has been stating numerous times in the MSM, Laura suffered from mental health issues, therefore I believe what happens here is people are trying to figure out how these issues cropped up what precipitated her mental health issues. Was it the use of drugs? Was it because of the relationships she had with other people including the alleged murderers? Was it the pressures she had placed upon her self to become or remain a high achiever? Did she fall in with the wrong crowd or was she abandoned or felt abandoned by those she trusted and had her back? So many questions and no definitive answers and that's what some are discussing and trying to figure out, shed light on. Was it DM who introduced her to drugs and lead her on the pathway to escorting, gave her false hopes of them being a couple? Was she in love with him and he lead her on only to devastate her causing her to spiral out of control?

Please don't be offended at some of the suggestions or opinions, as that is all they are. Some just trying to shed light or give better understanding on mental health issues and how the system works and to show the possibilities/reasons as to how and why LB or others may have fell through the cracks. This is what WS is all about and by no means is anyone blaming or bashing LB. We are all praying for justice for her and the other victims and anticipating the days when so many answers come to light. Nothing about this whole case makes sense and we are just trying to make sense of it all. Again thank you for coming forward to clear up and share with us the Laura you loved and knew. My heart goes out to you on the tragic and senseless loss of your dear friend.

MOO.

 

[swedie]

The problem is it can really take a long time to get the kind of help you need. Meds or no meds. No healthcare system is perfect nor is any police organization.

Not to mention, sometimes mental health professionals make the wrong diagnosis and prescribe the wrong meds or inappropriate amounts are given. Some meds work for some, while others do not. Not to mention, sometimes these take months to work before the patient sees results and although this is stipulated by doctors/pharmacists, some people expect immediate results, when that doesn't happen, they discontinue use and find themselves back at the doctor's office wanting to try something new. Or some patients cannot tolerate the side effects caused by certain meds. Do this three or four times (changing of meds) and that could be many months of being untreated, causing someone to spiral more out of control, more depressed, more desperate and feeling totally overwhelmed and helpless/hopeless. Just saying this in general terms and MOO.

 

[n1989]

Not to mention, sometimes mental health professionals make the wrong diagnosis and prescribe the wrong meds or inappropriate amounts are given. Some meds work for some, while others do not. Not to mention, sometimes these take months to work before the patient sees results and although this is stipulated by doctors/pharmacists, some people expect immediate results, when that doesn't happen, they discontinue use and find themselves back at the doctor's office wanting to try something new. Or some patients cannot tolerate the side effects caused by certain meds. Do this three or four times (changing of meds) and that could be many months of being untreated, causing someone to spiral more out of control, more depressed, more desperate and feeling totally overwhelmed and helpless/hopeless. Just saying this in general terms and MOO.

You're right. It's a hard cycle. Especially for someone like Laura who has achieved so much. She wasn't understood. "Snap out of it" seemed like the best solution.

 

[Snoofo]

Not to mention, sometimes mental health professionals make the wrong diagnosis and prescribe the wrong meds or inappropriate amounts are given. Some meds work for some, while others do not. Not to mention, sometimes these take months to work before the patient sees results and although this is stipulated by doctors/pharmacists, some people expect immediate results, when that doesn't happen, they discontinue use and find themselves back at the doctor's office wanting to try something new. Or some patients cannot tolerate the side effects caused by certain meds. Do this three or four times (changing of meds) and that could be many months of being untreated, causing someone to spiral more out of control, more depressed, more desperate and feeling totally overwhelmed and helpless/hopeless. Just saying this in general terms and MOO.

Good point Swedie! Sometimes it takes years!

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[n1989]

Given the parade of fools with cameras, I haven't quite dismissed the idea of video evidence, which I prefer not to entertain because it's so sad.


Could murder 1 charges be laid if evidence was written confirmation via any digital messaging system (social media, steam) and without verifiable remains?

Since so many people in these circles are often in trouble with the law, I can imagine a lot of talking is going on to LE. And given a lot of these people get high and drunk, the lips have many opportunities to get loose so I'm sure LE gets many leads.

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I wonder about this too. In this day and age it's surprising what can be considered evidence.

 

[matou]

cell phone tower map of area near the North Dumfries farm. Two Rogers towers and one other nearby.

http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/...80.434493&zoom=14&type=roadmap&layers=a&pid=0

put in this address: 2548 Roseville Rd, North Dumfries, Ontario N0B

 

[Carli]

I wonder about this too. In this day and age it's surprising what can be considered evidence.

No kidding! We've learned that there are 70 plus criminal gangs presently active in Toronto - There are Crips and Bloods and Santa Muerta and Asian gangs and Russian mafia and every manner of criminal affiliations far too numerous to mention, all afloat on the profits of drugs, prostitution and various other nefarious activities. Given the intercine rivalries between these groups and their apparent willingness to murder each other, I can't imagine why on earth any rational persons, much less LE, would take their testimony seriously. Oh wait. At trial they'd have to swear an oath on the bible that they're telling the truth, right? Phew. That's ok, then.

Given the seriousness of the charges and the apparent dearth of bodies in this triple murder case, I sincerely hope that the evidence being brought to bear consists of much, much more than 3rd party accusations and troubling gangsta videos.

 

[Woodland]

Suspect fastening ones seatbelt at time of trial, if there is one, or more, would be wise. Have a feeling LM will look like the 'boy next door' by comparison.

 

[hopingforjustice]

Please don't be offended at some of the suggestions or opinions, as that is all they are. Some just trying to shed light or give better understanding on mental health issues and how the system works and to show the possibilities/reasons as to how and why LB or others may have fell through the cracks. This is what WS is all about and by no means is anyone blaming or bashing LB. We are all praying for justice for her and the other victims and anticipating the days when so many answers come to light. Nothing about this whole case makes sense and we are just trying to make sense of it all. Again thank you for coming forward to clear up and share with us the Laura you loved and knew. My heart goes out to you on the tragic and senseless loss of your dear friend.

MOO.

Well said Swedie

And a lot to do with "the written" word I feel. Like a text message or an email, Its so hard to know the emotion that it came from and sometimes we tend to throw our own feelings into the reading of it. (and a lot of times are very wrong) I know I am guilty of this.
It was refreshing and somewhat exciting to finally hear from someone who has first hand knowledge about Laura and could help us understand her better. The good and the bad...we all have both those traits within us.

Thanks for joining us n1989 and sharing your insights

 

[Snoofo]

Thanks for speaking up, n1989. I have no connections to this case <modsnip>

I too had someone close to me who was in desperate need of help, we convinced him to go to an emergency department and he and was turned away - this was at a hospital in the KW region. He eventually got help, but in the meantime a lot of damage was done, and it took a major psychotic episode.

I wanted to also share an experience. One of my good friends in high school was depressed beyond an acceptable teenage level. She ended up admitting herself into a regular hospital in Toronto and after spending some time in the psychiatric ward was transferred to a centre. She never finished high school and was in inpatient treatment for at least a couple years, then gradually on an outpatient basis. I suspect it depends on availability of beds and perhaps assessing what other supports the person has? (She had no support at home). So if anyone reading this wonders what a person can do, show up at hospitals prepared to stay, until one of them takes the person in.

(I am happy to report decades later that it took a couple years to determine the right meds and dosage but my dear friend, who was manic-depressive, turned out very well and we're buddies to this day).


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[Miranda]

I've had to check a dear friend of mine into CAMH on more than one occasion as well. Once I phoned and they set us up an appointment that same afternoon and another time I just brought her straight there because of the urgency of the situation. Although their resources may be spread thin, they will not turn people away if there is a risk of self harm.

My question is why, if Laura had said that she wanted to go there wasn't anyone holding her hand and bringing her there (or somewhere) immediately? Because she had claimed there was a 2 year waiting list? shocking. Not very many addicts will even accept professional help. She asked for it and was left and trusted to find it herself? I'm not pointing fingers here it just seems as though the people surrounding her just kept passing the buck.

The day she was caught shoplifting at Winners she was a 10 minute walk away from the closest CAMH building. Apparently she was banging her head off the wall- that most certainly would be considered self harming. It sounds like she needed help for quite a long time. I wish someone had found her some.

 

[n1989]

I've had to check a dear friend of mine into CAMH on more than one occasion as well. Once I phoned and they set us up an appointment that same afternoon and another time I just brought her straight there because of the urgency of the situation. Although their resources may be spread thin, they will not turn people away if there is a risk of self harm.

My question is why, if Laura had said that she wanted to go there wasn't anyone holding her hand and bringing her there (or somewhere) immediately? Because she had claimed there was a 2 year waiting list? shocking. Not very many addicts will even accept professional help. She asked for it and was left and trusted to find it herself? I'm not pointing fingers here it just seems as though the people surrounding her just kept passing the buck.

The day she was caught shoplifting at Winners she was a 10 minute walk away from the closest CAMH building. Apparently she was banging her head off the wall- that most certainly would be considered self harming. It sounds like she needed help for quite a long time. I wish someone had found her some.

I'll say this til I'm blue in the face or my thumbs fall off- Laura was a high functioning person with a seriously deep rooted issue. When I say she didn't fit the bill I mean it. I think some thought she was seeking attention, but I think there truly was something amiss deep down. Imagine how frustrated you'd be if you knew something to be true about yourself- no matter how vague or exact, but everyone around you said it was something else or not true at all. I know I'd be pretty pissed.

 

[matou]

Hi n1989. I've seen some photos of LB on her fb, here and elsewhere. What was her last "look?" Was she blond? Would she wear wigs? How did she wear her hair? Down or ponytail? What about her weight? She looks so different from her brunette photos to the last one she posted on her fb. Any idea of what style clothing she would wear normally? It was summer when she disappeared so I would imagine summerwear, sandals? Just wondering if anyone may have thought they had seen her but wasn't sure because of what her photos looked like at the time. Sorry for so many questions.TIA.

 

[n1989]

Hi n1989. I've seen some photos of LB on her fb, here and elsewhere. What was her last "look?" Was she blond? Would she wear wigs? How did she wear her hair? Down or ponytail? What about her weight? She looks so different from her brunette photos to the last one she posted on her fb. Any idea of what style clothing she would wear normally? It was summer when she disappeared so I would imagine summerwear, sandals? Just wondering if anyone may have thought they had seen her but wasn't sure because of what her photos looked like at the time. Sorry for so many questions.TIA.

Latest look was blond. She had a lot of hair so I'm not sure she would try and wear a wig. She never mentioned that. She may have lost some weight after she left (more like kicked out of) home. She was apparently staying with a girl I will call T for a few weeks which is also apparently around the time most of the alleged escorting started. I have to be careful here, I'm not sure if I can talk about this or not, everything is purely what I know from what Laura told me. She'd probably be wearing dresses, but since she wasn't living at home I'm not sure if she would have been wearing her own clothes at all. Maybe she was able to buy new stuff. Around this time I didn't have much contact with her in person. Her name was elle Ryan on Facebook for quite some time though- not sure that there's any connection to that and the escorting as asked before. If someone encountered Laura they would know- she loved to talk. She had a unique beauty, she was also tall and I think she would be easy to spot regardless.

 

[swedie]

Latest look was blond. She had a lot of hair so I'm not sure she would try and wear a wig. She never mentioned that. She may have lost some weight after she left (more like kicked out of) home. She was apparently staying with a girl I will call T for a few weeks which is also apparently around the time most of the alleged escorting started. I have to be careful here, I'm not sure if I can talk about this or not, everything is purely what I know from what Laura told me. She'd probably be wearing dresses, but since she wasn't living at home I'm not sure if she would have been wearing her own clothes at all. Maybe she was able to buy new stuff. Around this time I didn't have much contact with her in person. Her name was elle Ryan on Facebook for quite some time though- not sure that there's any connection to that and the escorting as asked before. If someone encountered Laura they would know- she loved to talk. She had a unique beauty, she was also tall and I think she would be easy to spot regardless.

n1989 would you be willing to answer some questions? If so, when was the last time you saw or had contact with Laura and how close were you to her?
Were you one of the friends who somewhat cut off contact because you didn't approve of the way she was conducting herself?
How long had you known her?
Did she talk to you at all about DM and if so, did she believe they were in a bf/gf relationship?
Have you been in contact with her parents and SL since the arrest of the accused?
Did you know SL prior to Laura's disappearance?
Have you contacted LE with any information you have?
Did you ever meet or hear about MS and CN prior to this case?

TIA and of course only if you feel comfortable answering some or all of these questions.

 

[n1989]

n1989 would you be willing to answer some questions? If so, when was the last time you saw or had contact with Laura and how close were you to her?
Were you one of the friends who somewhat cut off contact because you didn't approve of the way she was conducting herself?
How long had you known her?
Did she talk to you at all about DM and if so, did she believe they were in a bf/gf relationship?
Have you been in contact with her parents and SL since the arrest of the accused?
Did you know SL prior to Laura's disappearance?
Have you contacted LE with any information you have?
Did you ever meet or hear about MS and CN prior to this case?

TIA and of course only if you feel comfortable answering some or all of these questions.

I don't know anyone in this case except Laura. I talked to SL a couple times but never knew him before.
I last spoke to Laura July 1st 2012.
I went to high school with Laura.
She reached out to me late march 2012 because she said she was looking for someone to talk to who wouldn't judge her for her diagnosis and what she was going through. I was not one of the people to turn her away per-se, but I will say I could have done more and wish I did. You never expect this kind of thing to actually happen.
We weren't that close overall in the years leading up to this
Never talked to her parents. I believe they should have done more.
I contacted LE, and they followed up when the new officers were assigned. Woodhouse didn't seem too concerned with what I had said at first. The newer officers did seem more invested in the case though.

 

[matou]

I don't know anyone in this case except Laura. I talked to SL a couple times but never knew him before.
I last spoke to Laura July 1st 2012.
I went to high school with Laura.
She reached out to me late march 2012 because she said she was looking for someone to talk to who wouldn't judge her for her diagnosis and what she was going through. I was not one of the people to turn her away per-se, but I will say I could have done more and wish I did. You never expect this kind of thing to actually happen.
We weren't that close overall in the years leading up to this
Never talked to her parents. I believe they should have done more.
I contacted LE, and they followed up when the new officers were assigned. Woodhouse didn't seem too concerned with what I had said at first. The newer officers did seem more invested in the case though.

OMG. You may be one of the last people she spoke with. Did she mention a new boyfriend or relationship? I know you may not be able to say specifics. Did she ask you if you had a place for her to stay? Just trying to see if there is any match up with what DM told SL r.e. her phone calls to him. TIA

 

[n1989]

OMG. You may be one of the last people she spoke with. Did she mention a new boyfriend or relationship? I know you may not be able to say specifics. Did she ask you if you had a place for her to stay? Just trying to see if there is any match up with what DM told SL r.e. her phone calls to him. TIA

I was one of the last people to speak to her, yes. Imagine seeing the news report "missing since June 26" knowing you spoke to her after that? I had chills so bad go down my back I wouldn't be surprised if it left marks.
She mentioned a few things.. People she met and was staying with. She mentioned being put in hotels. I'm not sure of any specifics as I didn't know DM and she would not have been able to refer to him directly or any of the other folks when speaking to me because I wouldn't have known them.
She was probably mainly looking for help with a place to stay when she called DM, that's why she called me. I was in no position to be able to offer my home at the time.. And that's something that eats away at me pretty hard sometimes.. I know if I have kids someday, I will be that mom that lets kids stay when they need a place to go.