Laura Babcock: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich charged w/Murder in the First Degree #1

[MsSherlock]

Are police still actively searching for Laura? If not, why not? Is it because they believe her body was burned beyond recognition in the way Tim Bosma's was?

Matou, I mentioned a similar thing in the TB thread. My theory is this: to get First Degree murder charges without a corpse, they would have had to have some pretty strong evidence indicating that she's dead. Perhaps video or picture evidence? I don't even think evidence from the incinerator ie) jewelry, iPad etc would be sufficient, IMO, it would only indicate her possessions being disposed of. IMHO, they would need bone fragment, teeth or some other hardcore evidence, such as the whole thing on video, to get those charges. The fact that there doesn't seem to be an ongoing investigation into finding her, leads me to believe they've got all they need. MOO

 

[JPC]

IMO they may have found compelling evidence on confiscated hard drives to suggest that she was murdered and disposed of.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Not sure if everyone saw this article about the 1st degree charges without a body.

http://metronews.ca/news/canada/1000439/laura-babcock-can-it-be-first-degree-murder-without-a-body/

 

[ArianeEmory]

We just had a conviction in the US without a body. http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...sing-Va-Teens-Abduction-Murder-258523811.html

 

[hopingforjustice]

JMO
The addition of charges to MS on the 1st Degree charge with regard to LB tell me that there is either a "talker", a witness, or compelling evidence from the computer seize. LB was connected to DM in many ways and "explains" the charge to him. If not for some serious evidence why tie in MS? There has been no "talk" otherwise that they even knew each other. Totally just my take on this .

 

[Alethea Dice]

JMO
The addition of charges to MS on the 1st Degree charge with regard to LB tell me that there is either a "talker", a witness, or compelling evidence from the computer seize. LB was connected to DM in many ways and "explains" the charge to him. If not for some serious evidence why tie in MS? There has been no "talk" otherwise that they even knew each other. Totally just my take on this .

MS seems to have known most of this crowd since at least 2011 so the thought never crossed my mind that he wouldn't know LB as well.

JMO

 

[inbetweendoors]

Interesting picture of a shoebox full of cash on MW-J (@Krucifix14) PHOTO SITE

Coincidence ?

http://ink361.com/app/photo/ig-568252178731593675_271112266

Sorry, this is my first time posting anything more than a link to an article, so please correct me if I did this quote thing wrong ETA: <<I'm all good I think.

May be of no relevance (or may be posted on MWJ's thread, haven't gotten that far yet), but the comments on that photo refer (more than once) to "Bottom B*****s", which is slang for prostitutes. Escort tie-in...? All MOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

Just came across this article. I know I've seen it before, but it served as a good refresher:
Homicide detectives believe Dellen Millard bought a gun illegally and used it to murder his father. And that he also murdered Laura Babcock and incinerated her body &#8212; just as he allegedly did with Tim Bosma.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...ed-bosma-killer-s-girlfriend-was-incinerated/

Also from the same article:
"Babcock, 23, of Toronto, knew Millard and, in the days before she disappeared in June 2012, there were many text exchanges between the two, according to a close friend of Babcock's. "

 

[hopingforjustice]

Babcock, 23, of Toronto, knew Millard and, in the days before she disappeared in June 2012, there were many text exchanges between the two, according to a close friend of Babcock's.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-st...s-incinerated/

Has there been discussion on this board regarding "text messages" between the two? I only recall phone records. If so, I apologize for missing them and ask if someone could point me to it.

 

[Snoofo]

Just came across this article. I know I've seen it before, but it served as a good refresher:
Homicide detectives believe Dellen Millard bought a gun illegally and used it to murder his father. And that he also murdered Laura Babcock and incinerated her body — just as he allegedly did with Tim Bosma.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...ed-bosma-killer-s-girlfriend-was-incinerated/

Also from the same article:
"Babcock, 23, of Toronto, knew Millard and, in the days before she disappeared in June 2012, there were many text exchanges between the two, according to a close friend of Babcock's. "

I think we're going in circles because the counter to that was always this:

"In the last few days, police sources had*told CBC News they believed they had found other remains on the property, but they were unsure if they were animal or human.On Tuesday, Hamilton police Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said, "We're dealing with one set of human remains." "

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.1335718

Now either he means there were no other human remains period or his phrasing is another example of crafty police language. Because "we" (HPS) wouldn't "deal" with anyone else's remains if they didn't come from Hamilton. ??

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think we're going in circles because the counter to that was always this:

"In the last few days, police sources had*told CBC News they believed they had found other remains on the property, but they were unsure if they were animal or human.On Tuesday, Hamilton police Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said, "We're dealing with one set of human remains." "

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.1335718

Now either he means there were no other human remains period or his phrasing is another example of crafty police language. Because "we" (HPS) wouldn't "deal" with anyone else's remains if they didn't come from Hamilton. ??

Both things can be true: LB's body was incinerated, and they found no remains. I think the timing of the incinerator purchase is going to speak to LB's situation. Also, because the incinerator was ordered in July and was shipped from Manitoba, meaning it would not arrive instantly, LB's body would have had to be hidden someplace (barn?) to await the arrival of the incinerator, and perhaps as the body sat it left behind DNA evidence that pointed to her death.

 

[swedie]

Both things can be true: LB's body was incinerated, and they found no remains. I think the timing of the incinerator purchase is going to speak to LB's situation. Also, because the incinerator was ordered in July and was shipped from Manitoba, meaning it would not arrive instantly, LB's body would have had to be hidden someplace (barn?) to await the arrival of the incinerator, and perhaps as the body sat it left behind DNA evidence that pointed to her death.

And this makes me revisit that picture of an officer carrying out that stained board with the paper bag over the end of it. Was the bag concealing LB's hair strands? MOO.

 

[swedie]

I think we're going in circles because the counter to that was always this:

"In the last few days, police sources had*told CBC News they believed they had found other remains on the property, but they were unsure if they were animal or human.On Tuesday, Hamilton police Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said, "We're dealing with one set of human remains." "

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.1335718

Now either he means there were no other human remains period or his phrasing is another example of crafty police language. Because "we" (HPS) wouldn't "deal" with anyone else's remains if they didn't come from Hamilton. ??

IMO if you read that May 21st, article in full context, MK stated only TB's remains had been found. Had they discovered LB's remains, even just bones, I feel certain LE would have turned them over to her family. Or at least informed her family so they could be certain of her fate and have some closure with certainty. IMO by the way it's been reported, there is nothing for LE to give LB's family, but LE were able to gather some sort of evidence to prove she is no longer alive. MOO.
Yep we're going in circles Snoofo

Kevin Bryan, a retired detective who worked with the York Regional Police forensic unit for 16 years, believes the family would be told if her body had been found, but said police would have other evidence of her death.

&#8220;Now they&#8217;ve laid a murder charge which means they do have some evidence that she&#8217;s dead. . . . What that is, I don&#8217;t know and they&#8217;re not going to tell us that either,&#8221; said Bryan.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...a_babcocks_body_not_recovered_in_ontario.html

 

[bessie]

And this makes me revisit that picture of an officer carrying out that stained board with the paper bag over the end of it. Was the bag concealing LB's hair strands? MOO.

That curiously stained board conjures up the most disturbing scenarios in my mind. I'd willingly attribute the images to my active imagination if it were not for the picture of a forensic investigator toting off the board as evidence.

 

[Snoofo]

And this makes me revisit that picture of an officer carrying out that stained board with the paper bag over the end of it. Was the bag concealing LB's hair strands? MOO.

Swedie do you recall which Police Service found the stained board? IIRC it was TPS search #2 but if you find the source of that photo would help.

Also, would those stains have been found "as is" on that board or does anyone think a forensics chemical or spray highlighted/darkened what may look like a human form of remains?

 

[Arnie M]

I think that board was used to change oil in a vehicle at one time , often a plank is used as a ramp in order to make room under the vehicle to drain the oil and remove the oil filter

Usually when the old oil filter is removed , it is set aside (on the plank) , while the new filter is screwed on

Typically some oil runs out , seeps down around the tire of the vehicle which is obvious by the tire imprint that can clearly be seen in Swedies picture above.

I agree the end portion of the plank (with the paper bag over it) is what investigators are interested in , not the oil stain itself.

My guess is the plank was used by the original farm owner for oil changes , DM would have his oil changes done by his mechanics in town at his hangar

Certainly police found something interesting on the board and took it away for further testing ..... but we should remember police eventually said they found no evidence of LB at the farm after that hugely publicized search with all those barrels and straw being removed from the barn.

..

 

[Arnie M]

Babcock, 23, of Toronto, knew Millard and, in the days before she disappeared in June 2012, there were many text exchanges between the two, according to a close friend of Babcock's.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-st...s-incinerated/

Has there been discussion on this board regarding "text messages" between the two? I only recall phone records. If so, I apologize for missing them and ask if someone could point me to it.

Same here ... I always understood it was "phone records" .... if indeed they were ''text messages" it would sure make a difference because texts could probably be recovered .... plus we can assume police have DM's phone and records from that time period as well.

If DM was anxious to have the incinerator delivered quickly there could be a coinciding record of his communications with the incinerator dealer , delivery truck , and LB's last calls .... police have had 15 months to piece it together .... and I bet they have.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Just going back to the incinerator again for a moment. Both the Sun and the Globe articles on the incinerator state that it was ordered in July:

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Now July 1, 2012 was a Sunday so DM would not have been able to order the incinerator until, at the earliest, 9:00 AM July 2, 2012.

Suppose magically the order was taken, payment arranged and cleared, transportation was arranged in ZERO time, so that the incinerator left Grunthal, Manitoba at 9:00 AM July 2, 2012.

The trip would take 25 hours through Canada, or 19 hours and two border crossings through the US. A truck driver can only drive 13 hours before having to take a (2+8=) 10 hour break before starting to drive again. Starting at 9 AM on the 2nd, the driver would have to break by 10 PM, resume driving at 8 AM, and finally arrive at the Waterloo International Airport at 8 PM, perhaps as late as 10 PM due to the mandatory 2 hour rest while driving...outside of business hours and due for a break from duty in 1 hour. That is, if it took no time to arrange the sale and transportation, the earliest the incinerator could have been delivered would be 9 AM on the 4th, if the incinerator was routed through Canada. The US trip would be 6 hours shorter, but the driver would have to deal with a border crossing and customs twice. If that took longer than about an hour altogether, again the driver would arrive at the airport outside of business hours and the earliest the incinerator would be delivered would be on the 4th.

However this is a practical impossibility. Would the distributor have this model in stock and on hand? How long would it take to arrange transportation of the incinerator? What about the paperwork? Would the distributor wait for a payment to clear before shipping? What other delays would add to the time before the incinerator was delivered to DM?

So, if DM ordered the incinerator in advance of LB's death, but in July, it still would not have arrived by the time LB was killed. If LB was killed on the evening of the 3rd and then the incinerator was ordered afterwards, the earliest date to order would be Wednesday the 4th, and only by miracle would the machine arrive by Friday the 6th. DM realistically would have to wait through the weekend.

Altogether it seems to me that even if DM planned the incinerator purchase in advance, but placed the order in July, LB's body would have to wait for days.

LE made a 5 day search of the farm based on new information in the LB case September 9-13, 2013, and the news headlines said that LE came up empty as early as the second day of the search.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.1699302
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...-search-ends-laura-babcock-mystery-continues/

On September 20, MSM reported "No new clues into disappearance of Laura Babcock found at Millard farm". However:

But, investigators say items taken from the farm still need to be forensically examined, adding police could return to the property at some point. Police spent five days there last week.

http://www.570news.com/2013/09/20/n...rance-of-laura-babcock-found-at-millard-farm/

So is it possible that LE did get DNA evidence from the farm with regard to LB some weeks after all of MSM reported that nothing had been found?

 

[redheart]

RSBM:

Just going back to the incinerator again for a moment. Both the Sun and the Globe articles on the incinerator state that it was ordered in July:

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Now July 1, 2012 was a Sunday so DM would not have been able to order the incinerator until, at the earliest, 9:00 AM July 2, 2012.

IMO it's quite possible that the incinerator was shipped and/or delivered in July and that has morphed into "ordered" in July in news reporting.
This link says

purchased by Dellen Millard in July 2012

not specifically that it was ordered in July. IMO it's possible the incinerator was ordered in June and shipped and delivered early in July with an invoice dated for the ship date, not the order date.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying

The next article is even less specific, saying

An employee of the Millard family’s aviation company, Millardair, handled the transaction around July of last year, Mr. Penner said.

BBM

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

IMO I see nothing to exclude the possibility that the Eliminator was ordered before DM killed LB.

 

[matou]

For Swedie's photo: Little information has been released to the media or to the Babcock family. What&#8217;s known is that police acted on &#8220;new information,&#8221; which prompted the second search of the farm, where forensic investigators in protective gear worked Tuesday, removing boards, a tarp full of straw and other detritus.


http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...missing_womans_uncle_looking_for_answers.html