Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.14.17 - Day 15

[meterclicks]

He's in charge of sales and equipment -- feeding, water, and also incinerators.
by Adam Carter 12:43 PM

They're the Canadian distributor for The Eliminator.
by Adam Carter 12:44 PM

Crown Katie Doherty is questioning this witness.
by Adam Carter 12:45 PM

 

[inbetweendoors]

We're now getting an agreed statement of facts for the jury. The parties agree that during the search of the Eliminator, Sgt. Annette Huys found five small objects she calls "grommets."
by Adam Carter 12:33 PM


We're now seeing photos of them. They're circular, about 3 cm by 3 cm, look like steel. They appear to be a metal piece you'd have at the bottom of a tarp if you wanted to tie it to something.
by Adam Carter 12:35 PM

I'm kind of surprised this was allowed...couldn't those have been from TB? Didn't they clean it out between uses if LB's remains were thrown in the lake?

(I'm actually re-reading MS's testimony from the TB trial right now, and he said TB was put on a "sheet" - granted I'm only just starting Sachak's cross so I don't know if this will be clarified or left at "sheet").

If anyone remembers...?

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[meterclicks]

Penner says they sell these incinerators all over Canada.
by Adam Carter 12:46 PM

He says most of their customers are using the incinerators for pet crematoriums, and also for hog farms sometimes.
by Adam Carter 12:47 PM

 

[Satchie]

Responding to this from andreww in the weekend thread:

Not sure what the crown is doing. It was quite clear that it was said in the opening statement that Millard, Smich and LBs phone left Maple Gate and headed for the Lakeshore. The witnesses seem to have testified to something different, that Millard went to Waterloo alone. In fact, from actual evidence, I have not seen anything that would even indicate that Smich was involved in anything until the actual incineration.

I think, because he wouldn't cooperate with police, they're throwing the worst at him. He may take the stand in his own defense again, and his evidence could ensure the conviction of DM. Or he may take the risk there's not enough evidence to convict him of anything and stay quiet.

 

[meterclicks]

Penner says there's a 250 pound unit of incinerator, up to a 5,000 pound unit.
by Adam Carter 12:48 PM

Penner says they usually sell about 3 or 4 of these incinerators a year.
by Adam Carter 12:48 PM

Doherty is asking about the SN500 unit, which is the 500 pound unit. Also mentioned the 250 pound unit. "Usually people who want it for pet crematoriums is 250. Anything bigger than that is usually 500 or more," he says.
by Adam Carter 12:49 PM

 

[canadiangirl]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
Dr. Rogers doesn't seem to agree with what #Millard thinks he sees in the photo. Some confusion about where the "notch" and "oval" of the bone appear in the photo. #LauraBabcock

She is an expert in her field and he's challenging what she sees? Wtf

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[meterclicks]

We're now seeing a photo of The Eliminator. Penner says it's the SN500 model, with an afterburner and propane tank.
by Adam Carter 12:50 PM

Penner says he sold one of these units to a Mr. Schlatman.
by Adam Carter 12:51 PM

Now seeing another photo of the Eliminator.
by Adam Carter 12:52 PM

 

[JuneBug67]

I think she was 5'10" from what I remember so a little under 6 inches taller than average.

I was referring to sources that said average height for females in Canada was about 5’3 1/2. Point is, her bone measurements almost certainly weren’t shorter than the average female in actuality. Photo resolution, damage, limitations of the method etc. probably did introduce small errors. I can’t see it mattering however!

 

[puppyraiser]

I wonder if there is a closer regulation now on the purchase of these incinerators since it's been discovered one was used to cremate humans.

 

[meterclicks]

View attachment 126411
Here's a photo of it.
by Adam Carter 12:52 PM

Penner says the lid of the device weighs about 200 pounds.
by Adam Carter 12:53 PM

Penner says the lid is about 18 by 24 inches. The weight of the entire unit is about 4,000 pounds.
by Adam Carter 12:54 PM

The Crown is now asking him if he wants to refresh his memory with testimony from another proceeding.
by Adam Carter 12:55 PM

 

[meterclicks]

Penner is now saying it weighs around 6,000 pounds. He says the unit is about ten feet tall.
by Adam Carter 12:56 PM

The height from the ground to the door opening on the unit is about four feet, Penner says.
by Adam Carter 12:57 PM

Penner says the unit must have been put on the trailer after it was sold.
by Adam Carter 12:58 PM

 

[meterclicks]

Penner says that he and Schlatman talked about how it was going to be put on a trailer.
by Adam Carter 12:58 PM

The Crown asks how long it would take this unit to burn 150 pounds of a carcass. Penner says it would take roughly an hour.
by Adam Carter 12:59 PM

 

[RandomName479]

The Crown is now asking him if he wants to refresh his memory with testimony from another proceeding.
by Adam Carter 12:55 PM

BBM.....tip toeing.......obviously this isn't the first time this witness has encountered DM and MS in the courtroom.....I still can't imagine how it must feel for him to know that a product he sells (for a legit use) was used to cremate at least 2 people....strength to all of those directly and peripherally involved as we continue.....MOO

 

[meterclicks]

There's two burners in the unit, Penner says, with the bigger one on the bottom. When it's running, the temperature would be 1,400 degrees fahrenheit in the afterburner, with the main unit at 1,200 to 1,300 degrees.
by Adam Carter 1:02 PM

Doherty now asking Penner to point out the afterburner, which is used to get the unit under Canadian emissions standards.
by Adam Carter 1:04 PM

 

[meterclicks]

The afterburner is lit first, Penner says, so that any smoke coming from the bottom can move through it.
by Adam Carter 1:06 PM

"Basically it's burning the smoke ... to burn off all the emissions," Penner says.
by Adam Carter 1:06 PM

At the end, just hot air comes through the afterburner.
by Adam Carter 1:06 PM

 

[meterclicks]

We're now taking the lunch recess. Back at 2:15 p.m.
by Adam Carter 1:08 PM

Someone else will have to pick up the blog and/or tweets when court is back in session, please

 

[Quinnergirl]

Penner says that he and Schlatman talked about how it was going to be put on a trailer.
by Adam Carter 12:58 PM

The Crown asks how long it would take this unit to burn 150 pounds of a carcass. Penner says it would take roughly an hour.
by Adam Carter 12:59 PM

Hmmm..roughly and hour? Didn't DM tell MS he would be back in an hour? (at some point that evening?)

 

[paris_paris]

Hmmm..roughly and hour? Didn't DM tell MS he would be back in an hour? (at some point that evening?)

No that was July 3rd

 

[JuneBug67]

The line of questioning by the Smich team does suggest we’re not going to see a repeat of the last trial with Smich acknowleding the crime but pushing the blame on Millard.

 

[Satchie]

She is an expert in her field and he's challenging what she sees? Wtf

I think it's a perfectly normal strategy in a trial to try to introduce doubt in the minds of the jury about someone's testimony, it happens all the time. Experts are frequently wrong when it comes to evidence that's subjectively interpreted, for eg, there's been some scandals about bad science in interpreting how fires were started, that have been used to convict probably innocent people.

On the other hand, DNA evidence is convincing, not because of the qualifications of the witness presenting the evidence, but because of the scientific reliability of a DNA match, and the overwhelmingly convincing statistics about it's uniqueness in each individual.