Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.16.17 - Day 17

[JPC]

Is court in session today?


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[swedie]

Some interesting tidbits. MOO.


Visit the Temple of Zeus in Libya for his 31st birthday, take his teenaged cousin to Jamaica, buy his mother a luxury Tesla car, perhaps work for National Geographic — in a series of letters from jail to family and friends, Millard lays out his plans for savouring the freedom he believes is inevitable.

“I’m working on getting out of here,” he tells a cousin. “I owe you some driving lessons, and a trip to Jamaica )”

Millard wrote the letters from June 2013 through March 2014. Copies were provided by a source requesting anonymity. They were authenticated by people who know Millard, the CEO of the family firm MillardAir Ltd., recognized his distinctive doodles and were able to verify his handwriting.

Yet despite this professed trust in others, Millard expresses suspicions that his lawyer may not be passing on his letters. He goes against the wishes of his uncle and tries to finagle a visit from his 18-year-old cousin. “I would really like to know what’s going on with her,” he tells a friend.

A chubby adolescent who resented his father for allowing him to eat pasta non-stop after his parents’ marriage ended, Millard is clearly image conscious, expressing embarrassment in a letter that newspapers frequently run a photograph of him from his pudgy days. He is working out to stay in shape and not gain weight, he writes.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

 

[lclabtech]

When I heard that Millard approached his uncle’s “business neighbour” to talk about his pet cremation idea I kinda worried that some might think that lends credence for there actually being a plan for this outrageous idea. And then I found out it was just Dubien, who we’ve heard of before and is an approachable person for DM to get his cover story out to. But the jury doesn’t know about Dubien....


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[paris_paris]

Re post 432 - I disagree. From listening to him I would conclude that he knows a lot about DM that he can't say court, but he KNOWS him and is disgusted by him for a reason. I think the jury may see that also. They may not get to know what he knows about DM, but they will feel the disgust and understand that it has a source.

I think this is true. After this trial we will read "what the jury didn't hear"... a dumbed down version to save info for the WM trial. We will read the same after that trial... with even more info, but I think we will also read an interview with Uncle Robbie about so much more.

 

[inbetweendoors]

Is court in session today?


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Yep. Just not yet.

Cross of Det. Jansz then possibly MM as per reporters.

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[Grey-St]

I think there is a lot of evidence to show Millard acted alone. The text that told Smich not to be outside when he arrived with LB, the text that said he was on a mission during the time of the murder, tells me Smich had no clue what was going down. Did he know in advance but just didn’t know the details? Maybe, but that can’t be proved at this point.


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Maybe DM physically acted alone for the murder, but to say MS didn’t have a clue what was going down, doesn’t jive with me. I’m mostly going on gut instincts at this point, but I believe this was planned by both of them. Likely these conversations took place in person, with no record. I think MS being scarce on the 3rd was part of this plan. LB had to be lured there by someone she was familiar or comfortable with, DM.

I agree that there may not be enough evidence at this point to prove MS participate in the planning of this murder; an important part of a M1 conviction. We have the procurement of the gun, the testing of the incinerator with “wet bones” text, the testimony of the boys in the garage, but I can’t help but feel nervous as we supposedly approach the end of the crowns case.

 

[swedie]

Is court in session today?


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I believe so. Judge announced he may give jurors Monday off. I'm sure they appreciate that IMO I would assume they would like to get back to their normal lives then be given days off. Ahead of schedule perhaps? Witnesses cannot appear until Tuesday? No wonder our system is so back logged and cases get thrown out. :notgood:

 

[Woodland]

I have been following this case from the beginning but, although it seemed easy to keep track of at first, there is actually a LOT of stuff. Several days ago, someone posted a listing of who had been called up to that point, and a summary of thier connection to the case. I've searched back for an hour this morning, but can't find it. Could anyone help me out? Can you refer me to the right date or post #? Thanks

The post was by swedie, Day #15, page 24, post #352.

Witness list to date - November 15/17. 31 Witnesses so far have taken the stand.

Clayton Babcock - Laura's father.

Shawn Lerner - Laura's ex boyfriend. They dated 18 months which ended in December 2012. They remained in contact after
breakup. SL reported LB missing to LE and confronted DM.

Desi Liberatore - Age 21, with two of his friends, showed up at MS's mother's garage where they smoked MJ and drank. MS
told them he murdered, burnt and threw a young lady's ashes and cell phone into a lake. He made a rap video prior and showed them from an ipad.

David Cronin - Age 22, said he and two friends were in Smich’s garage in 2012. They smoked pot and drank beer and then
Smich made a confession.

Next witness is from border services. Says Laura #Babcock has not entered US since May 4, 2011, according to records.

Andrew Gordon - Age 27. Dated CN off and on from 2008 to 2011. Partied at WM's Maple Gate house with DM and others.

Jeff Wilson - Age 41. Film and TV producer for 15 years. He met LB at a bar. He allowed LB to move in with him for two
weeks.

Sohail Khattak - Age 53, a doctor who specializes in ADHD. Met LB in a bar.

Elisabeth Van Rensburg - Met LB in high school and were friends.

Karoline Shirinian - Age 25. She worked with LB at toy store, friend.

Megan Orr - Age 29. Met LB through high school friends in 2011. LB would call her 15, 20 times a day.

Bradley Dean - He met Babcock through an escort service in June 2012.

Jessica Trevor - She invited LB to stay at her apartment when she met LB in park with her dog and luggage. Felt sorry for
her being homeless.

Stefan Blaziak - Friend of LB. Last saw LB on July 2. He took of video of her meowing, inside joke for them.

Richard Marcovitch- Age 52 managed an escort service, "Last Minute Escorts." LB worked for this escort service.

Shomo Abuhav - Age 54 also worked for same escort business LB was working for.

Kim Seguin - Toronto Police officer. Used to be in forensic unit. Her job was to take photos as per search warrant of Mary
S's house. She brought LB's Roots duffel bag as evidence.

Michael Ryder - Special Cst. Ryder is a computer forensic analyst for OPP since 2008. He searched SL's iPad, which was
found in the Smich house.

Danielle Fortier - Rogers Communication testfied re: cell phone information such as location, towers, incoming and outgoing
call, text messages.

Nicole Rebelo - Intelligence analyst with the Toronto Police Service. She was provided telephone records from this case,
analyzed them and created maps.

Richard Floriani - Hamilton police. Forensic services for his last 11yrs. Retired last year. He executed search warrant at
a residence in Oakville, on May 22, 2013. Mark Smich mother's house.

Michael Ryder- Examined and extracted information from SL's iPad. SL loaned LB his ipad weeks prior to her disappearance.

Andrew Ottay - 22 year veteran of Hamilton Police. In forensic services for 12 years. Searched Millard's home with warrant
May 11, 2013. He was tasked with taking photos.

Kulvinder Bassi - 54 year old sales rep for Sleep Country, who sold DM mattresses. July 4, 2012, Millard went into Sleep
Country store to buy a king size mattress. He wanted it delivered ASAP. Oct 21, 2012, Millard attended Sleep Country with a
male in his 20s and bought another mattress, Queen sized, with box spring.

Temorash Wakeli - He owns Speedy Delivery. He had a customer who requests a rush delivery. His log book shows he delivered a king size mattress to Millard on July 6, 2012.

Det. Sgt. Jim Falconer - Retired OPP officer. He was computer forensics. Extracted information on electronic devices in
Millard house.

Sgt. Annette Huys - Hamilton Police for 20 years. On May 11, 2013, she went to the rural property owned by DM, 2548
Rosedale Road in Kitchener. Huys took pictures during the search.

Robert Jitta - Officer with Toronto Police. He was involved in the examination of a vehicle, a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan. He
examined The Eliminator on December 4, 2013.

Dr. Tracy Rogers - Forensic anthropologist. She is the director of the forensic science program at U of T Mississauga.
Viewed two photos taken by DM or MS of the interior of the incinerator. Rogers gives her expert opinion that the remains within the incinerator were that of a human.

Sgt. Annette Huys - An agreed statement of facts for the jury. The parties agree that during the search of the Eliminator,
found five small objects she calls "grommets.

William Penner - He works for Tri Star dairy, hog and poultry, Canadian distributor for The Eliminator. Penner is in charge
of sales and equipment. Penner says he was contacted by Shane Schlatman back in June of 2012. He was looking to purchase for DM, an incinerator to do some custom incinerating, to go around farm to farm.

Rhonda Hale - Toronto police for 15 years, currently working with the forensic identification unit. Sept 9-12, 2013,
conducted a search warrant of Millard's farm.

 

[Inspector_North]

Yep. Just not yet.

Cross of Det. Jansz then possibly MM as per reporters.

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I hope DM does not get the weekend to prepare before crossing MM. MOO

 

[inbetweendoors]

Is the Crown notified in advance that the defendant(s) are going to testify in order to prepare cross, or do they just have to go on the fly?

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[andreww]

Really? So the exchange on May 28th between DM and MS about testing the incinerator with meat and bones was for a party? He knew two details, someone was going to die, and that he was going to help burn the remains. And this was before it occurred. MOO

I think he was in on it, I just don’t think there is evidence to prove it. Smich could have been told the deer story like the mechanic. unless there is evidence that says he was aware of a plan to murder LB prior to the actual crime, he’s innocent. Unlike TB, the death didn’t happen during the committing of another crime, so they need solid evidence here.


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[mimimic]

I think accused people should be required to get up on the stand.

 

[RezButt]

Is the Crown notified in advance that the defendant(s) are going to testify in order to prepare cross, or do they just have to go on the fly?

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The defense is under no obligation to make public what they will present.

 

[andreww]

Maybe DM physically acted alone for the murder, but to say MS didn’t have a clue what was going down, doesn’t jive with me. I’m mostly going on gut instincts at this point, but I believe this was planned by both of them. Likely these conversations took place in person, with no record. I think MS being scarce on the 3rd was part of this plan. LB had to be lured there by someone she was familiar or comfortable with, DM.

I agree that there may not be enough evidence at this point to prove MS participate in the planning of this murder; an important part of a M1 conviction. We have the procurement of the gun, the testing of the incinerator with “wet bones” text, the testimony of the boys in the garage, but I can’t help but feel nervous as we supposedly approach the end of the crowns case.

On the procurement of the gun, it seems uncertain that they even got one, and we certainly don’t know one was used.

Then there is the whole concept that the incinerator was purchased for TB and not LB. not sure how that subject would be broached in court though.


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[Coldpizza]

Good morning. Today's trial thread is open for posting.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?356263-Laura-Babcock-Murder-Trial-11-17-17-Day-18

Thanks to all that are able to help with the tweets.

This thread will close once the proceedings begin.

 

[longwayhome]

Was wondering if the interpretation of the "street lingo" by the police officer yesterday afternoon by the Crown is the start of the hard evidence that ties MS into a charge of M1 and the rest of the witnesses and the Crown's case ties MS in for sure?

 

[dar107]

I believe so. Judge announced he may give jurors Monday off. I'm sure they appreciate that IMO I would assume they would like to get back to their normal lives then be given days off. Ahead of schedule perhaps? Witnesses cannot appear until Tuesday? No wonder our system is so back logged and cases get thrown out. :notgood:

I think there have ended up being atleast one if not more witnesses disallowed. Yesterday it was tweeted by Lisa Hepfner that the officer who searched the Yukon would be testifying in the afternoon. But I believe the Jury was sent out and the officer never was put on the stand.

Lisa Hepfner
@HefCHCHNews
·
20h
This afternoon, the #LauraBabcock murder trial is expected to hear from someone who sold propane to the accused and an officer who searched #Millard's Yukon. I've left but will be back tweeting tomorrow. @CHCHNews 6pm for wrap on Robert Burns' testimony.

 

[Tealgrove]

I tend to agree with this. I think this has been a really great discussion regarding Dr. Burns' testimony, and I've taken into consideration everyone's opinion respectfully. I think JuneBug67 has also made some really fine points.

My opinion also takes into consideration my own personal experience. I've had to testify in court with the perpetrator in the room, and I was physically sick with disgust and nerves over what this individual did to me, and others, and having to repeat it on the stand. The cross-examination was brutal, and enraged me, and I was addressed by a lawyer, not the accused himself. For those of you who don't have this experience, I will tell you it is one of the hardest things you'll ever do in your life. Human emotion can be a very difficult thing to harness.

I can appreciate that RB's testimony may have seemed self-serving, but for him in was deeply personal. I think his contempt goes beyond what his nephew is accused of. It involves what he's accused of, but there's more to it in my opinion. Something, or many things, may have happened leading up to or in 2002. For him to specifically address this year as when their relationship dissolved, seems suspicious to me. We don't know the whole story.

I think it's important to put ourselves in the shoes of these witnesses, and think about how we might act or display on the stand if we were in the same position. It's not easy.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I made the comment that I felt sorry for MM.

I don't feel sorry for her choices or the fact that she was involved with these people.

I feel sorry for her because she's going to have to sit in that courtroom again and point the finger and tell all she knows about DM and MS and then DM gets to go face to face with her. That will be very hard. I would be a mess. I would be afraid. I would feel sorry for me because other than having knowledge....I didn't kill anyone.

Yup, I think she had some knowledge, I am quite convinced that she was aware of the nefarious missions but I really am conflicted on if she knew other things.

MM was young, had a difficult upbringing and admittedly had a fairly serious drug problem. I'm not excusing any of that but under the circumstances I can see how she could have made bad decisions regarding DM.

She's not better or no worse than a lot of the other hangers on. She made very bad decisions but I have confidence she will tell what she knows.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

I think he was in on it, I just don’t think there is evidence to prove it. Smich could have been told the deer story like MM. unless there is evidence that says he was aware of a plan to murder LB prior to the actual crime, he’s innocent. Unlike TB, the death didn’t happen during the committing of another crime, so they need solid evidence here.


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I hear you, but there is so much circumstantial evidence that if you don't consider all of it, one can easily interpret another conclusion. For me.

Talk of taking missions to the next level
Discussion of weapons and ammo. And of the concealed and prohibited version
The planning around the testing of the incinerator

All the above DM and MS discussions along with pings has me convinced he was involved in planning a murder. MOO

 

[Grey-St]

This is exactly what I was thinking when I made the comment that I felt sorry for MM.

I don't feel sorry for her choices or the fact that she was involved with these people.

I feel sorry for her because she's going to have to sit in that courtroom again and point the finger and tell all she knows about DM and MS and then DM gets to go face to face with her. That will be very hard. I would be a mess. I would be afraid. I would feel sorry for me because other than having knowledge....I didn't kill anyone.

Yup, I think she had some knowledge, I am quite convinced that she was aware of the nefarious missions but I really am conflicted on if she knew other things.

MM was young, had a difficult upbringing and admittedly had a fairly serious drug problem. I'm not excusing any of that but under the circumstances I can see how she could have made bad decisions regarding DM.

She's not better or no worse than a lot of the other hangers on. She made very bad decisions but I have confidence she will tell what she knows.

MOO

I couldn’t agree more. I’m really looking forward to her testimony. I think what she’s doing is quite brave, and takes a lot of courage. Especially going toe to toe with an alleged serial killer, and someone that she used to know.