Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.23.17 - Day 21

[winter2017]

He took the life of a great man who was a loving father, great husband, worked hard, etc, I have zero sympathy for DM. Who cares about his potential he did not even care he took away a little girls dad that she will never get to know.

He's not stupid at least. He's got an active mind. He's going to have to find some direction for that in prison or he will go squirrely.

 

[paris_paris]

One thing that still bothers me in both trials. In the TB trial, police found that large flat wood board in the barn on DM's property which appeared briefly in pictures then was gone and did not appear as evidence in the TB trial. It appeared to have a stained outline on it which could resemble a body. IMO. Then it disappeared. Thought it might be used in this trial perhaps for DNA evidence. Any comments on this. I am still wondering what it was and why it was not introduced as evidence.

That may show up in the "what the jury didn't see" stuff.

 

[andreww]

That may show up in the "what the jury didn't see" stuff.

Or maybe it was just an old board.

 

[Gloria77]

That may show up in the "what the jury didn't see" stuff.

Hi, does the jury get to see these stuff?

 

[JuneBug67]

He took the life of a great man who was a loving father, great husband, worked hard, etc, I have zero sympathy for DM. Who cares about his potential he did not even care he took away a little girls dad that she will never get to know.

Though I didn't mean that to be a sympathetic statement, just a statement of fact, personally I don't have an issue employing empathy in any direction. A lot of people seem to think empathy for a perpetrator somehow leaves less for the victim, or cheapens it somehow. Or that it's an either or, as you state. I see them as two separate lines of thought that don't even touch. I have a lot of empathy for somebody whose genetics and experiences form them into somebody who will end up in prison for life. People talk a lot about choices, but I'm not much of a believer in the philosophical idea of free will. They're making choices, but they're making them with the burden of defective thought processes, malformed consciences, poorly functioning inhibition centres in the brain and so many other handicaps. If you and I were DM or MS, atom for atom and experience for experience, we would be them. Dangerous people have to be locked up for the sake of the rest of us, but I've never been one to want to their conditions be harsh or their lives be any more miserable than they already are. The loss of freedom is a lot. It's enough. Victims don't have the luxury of seeing things this way, but the rest of us do if we're so inclined.

 

[paris_paris]

Hi, does the jury get to see these stuff?

They will after the trial. As soon as the jury is sent off to deliberate the info is recorded in the media. The jury won't see it until they have a verdict.

 

[JuneBug67]

Absolutely no evidence to prove either of those things. Millard is on record as telling multiple people the incinerator was for an animal cremation business, Smich may have been told the same. Unlikely, but without evidence to prove any different...

Dungey has his work cut out for him, but one had to conclude that at this point there is some hope for an acquittal.

 

[Gloria77]

They will after the trial. As soon as the jury is sent off to deliberate the info is recorded in the media. The jury won't see it until they have a verdict.

Bummer!!!

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Absolutely no evidence to prove either of those things. Millard is on record as telling multiple people the incinerator was for an animal cremation business, Smich may have been told the same. Unlikely, but without evidence to prove any different...

I agree MS is going to be tougher to get to the guilty verdict.

Here's the case against MS:
- He actively participates in the testing of the incinerator
- he talks about bringing something with bones or a dog (no matter the reason for the thing, there is no reason to test out bones - even if its for animals - there is no need to destroy the bones)
- we know MS needs money, what does an animal incinerator do for him in terms of earning him money (he can't drive)
- the spliff talk - does point to him being aware of the spliff and what it is
- the ipad - he is asking for DM's apple id the very next day and MM is taking pictures with it on July 5.
- the rap
- him telling kids he killed and burned a girl

Definetly not as strong as the case against DM but it is there. Question will be what does the jury consider reasonable doubt. Also depends on DM and his defense. He's screwed so he may just throw MS under the bus.

 

[JPC]

That may show up in the "what the jury didn't see" stuff.

I really need The Mob Reporter to put up some updated videos


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[winter2017]

With the letter, we know now that Laura is not still alive and her family also have closure and not wondering if she is or not. On another forum it said the coroner has not listed her as deceased, why would that be if the letter states she did die.?

 

[Horror]

Hi I am thinking MM was there but either doesn't remember being there that specific date as nothing stands out or she saw absolutely nothing. It is best for DA not to bring up as it would look good for MS and DM won't bring up as he is trying to pin on MS. I think DA is hoping MS will be raged by this and recant against DM and in process throw himself under bus. If I were MS attorney I would nothing as it all looks bad on DM and the jury were instructed the letters are against DM not MS by judge
I am also thinking MS didn't participate in actual act but fence sitting on the beforehand knowledge but he most certainly assisted in aftermath
Also Sea En looks worse after the letters it's as if she is aware beforehand he is involved - and okay with it ?maybe due to what we didn't see but I don't understand why she hasn't been charged with anything
Here's hoping she is on stand and gets charged with perjury !
All MOO


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[matou]

Now I see why there was no preliminary hearing and understand the decision to go straight to trial.

 

[JuneBug67]

I agree MS is going to be tougher to get to the guilty verdict.

Here's the case against MS:
1 He actively participates in the testing of the incinerator
2 he talks about bringing something with bones or a dog (no matter the reason for the thing, there is no reason to test out bones - even if its for animals - there is no need to destroy the bones)
3 we know MS needs money, what does an animal incinerator do for him in terms of earning him money (he can't drive)
4 the spliff talk - does point to him being aware of the spliff and what it is
5 the ipad - he is asking for DM's apple id the very next day and MM is taking pictures with it on July 5.
6 the rap
7 him telling kids he killed and burned a girl

Definetly not as strong as the case against DM but it is there. Question will be what does the jury consider reasonable doubt. Also depends on DM and his defense. He's screwed so he may just throw MS under the bus.

I numbered your points so I could respond accordingly. As I see it:

1 - yes
2 - I don't think he thought it was for animals, but a trial defense might try it. He does suggest a dog, not a homeless person, and even if it is for animals one doesn't want copious animal skeletons left over to dispose. If I was kidnapped by aliens and had my mind rewritten and suddenly wanted to incinerate animal carcasses, I would have absolutely no idea how a previously living thing might change or not change in a fire. It's not necessarily intuitive to know how body fluids might impact the fire or what happens to hard things like bones and teeth. I would want to try something "wet, with bones" to learn and understand.
3 - just more work from Dell, like painting or cleaning
4 - spliff talk is super hinky - or at least it seems so from here. As in the Bosma trial there are things we may be over emphasizing because we're relying on tweets and filtered information.
5 - ample evidence that he was given the iPad - he's not charged with receiving stolen property, he's charged with murder
6 - rap, to me, pretty much seals the deal on him knowing he incinerated a woman. But he's not charged with incinerating a woman, he's charged with murder.
7 - conflicting stories from young witnesses drinking peach schnapps. How do you decide which one to believe? Did he say killed and burned, or did he just say burned? Either way, the possibility still has to be set against the evidence because he could just be trying to seem cool and powerful - as one of the witnesses had concluded before he knew a woman really was missing.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I think the camp testimony got shut down in legal arguments and this was the only thing they were able to ask her about. It ended up being useless but there had been more evidence that they had expected to be able to use. JMO

I dunno if I’d say it was useless! Does it not put DMs love letter alibi to rest? That he was with CN having sex and doing drugs...or whatever he told her to say....

 

[huntergerrard]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
Millard makes analogy between sailing and standing trial. Tells Noudga " this is what happened; the night Laura disappeared I came over to your house, I tapped on your window... Laura was in the basement doing coke with Mark... You and I don't like coke..."

So, this should clear up the fact that CN KNEW what happened to LB. Instead of proclaiming his innocence, which IMO he would do if she didn't know his guilt or innocence, he told her the alibi that THEY would BOTH use. Which means she likely knew about TB as well since he provided an alibi to that, as well. She knew everything.

 

[Jealoushe]

So many letters too. How often were they getting sent out?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

So then again, will the jury not be questioning the mention of another jury?
It seems odd that the Crown would point out that he had not yet been charged with LB's murder. The jury could have just assumed the letters were written after he had been.

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At the beginning of this trial, was DMs criminal record not disclosed to the jury? They did it with MW. It’s a past charge and conviction and on record now. I can’t see this really being a problem. When TB case was being tried, there could be no mention of LB or WM as those charges weren’t tried yet in court.

JMO

 

[Inspector_North]

So many letters too. How often were they getting sent out?

They multiplied like a Rabbit. MOO

 

[andreww]

the night Laura disappeared, i came over to your place very early in the morning...i tapped on your window. i told you Laura was over doing coke with mark in the basement. we went to say goodnight to them. you saw her alive with mark, with coke. maybe they were going to leave to get more.

you and i don't like coke. we vaporized, we ****ed, i drove you home. we did not go to see if they were still home.

I like how Millard has to put the "we ****ed" in there. Even in the make believe world this guy is too much.