Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[loveisthemovement]

Well that would suck, because they were found guilty of the exact same crime, times two. MS is no less culpable. So if Code truly is intelligent, he will see that and rule accordingly, imo.

Totally agree. Both were found guilty of M1. Does Justice Code then get to decide what percentage of the entire crime Smich was involved in? Can he even evaluate that? I wonder is any precedent has been set in past rulings. What can Justice Code consider in his decision and what can't he?

ETA: if the jury decided M1, can Justice Code then make decisions that would seem to imply he didn't agree with the jury?

 

[Grey-St]

Totally agree. Both were found guilty of M1. Does Justice Code then get to decide what percentage of the entire crime Smich was involved in? Can he even evaluate that? I wonder is any precedent has been set in past rulings. What can Justice Code consider in his decision and what can't he?

ETA: if the jury decided M1, can Justice Code then make decisions that would seem to imply he didn't agree with the jury?

That's the thing, if he were to give one consecutive and one not, it would literally imply that he doesn't agree with the verdict. Also, from everything we have heard in court, it's impossible for even us to decide what percentage MS was actually involved, so how could Code? From the crowns case, he is literally just as culpable. From the verdict he is just as culpable. From the "you have to be willing to merk people, sometimes you just gotta kill people" quote, he's definitely just as culpable.

 

[brightii]

I don’t think Justice Code will be making a statement about which one of the two (DM / MS) is more culpable in LB’s murder in his ruling re consecutive or concurrent sentences. Rather, I think he will be considering if one or both have any hope of rehabilitation. We must remember that the jury unanimously voted for a consecutive sentence for DM and only 5 of the jurors (IIRC) recommended consecutive for MS with the other 7 jurors abstaining from making any recommendation about MS. IMO this is what Justice Code may be taking into consideration among everything else - the jury’s perceived direction about sentencing for both convicted killers.

All MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

That's the thing, if he were to give one consecutive and one not, it would literally imply that he doesn't agree with the verdict. Also, from everything we have heard in court, it's impossible for even us to decide what percentage MS was actually involved, so how could Code? From the crowns case, he is literally just as culpable. From the verdict he is just as culpable. From the "you have to be willing to merk people, sometimes you just gotta kill people" quote, he's definitely just as culpable.

One way to think about consecutive vs. concurrent is that judges suddenly have a 'range' of sorts to apply to multiple murder convictions. It's inflexible and binary, but it still approximates the idea of a sentence range, and sentencing within a range doesn't generally come with a sense that the judge doesn't agree with the verdict. Judges consider both mitigating and aggravating factors when deciding a sentence that is not fixed, and it seemed to me that is what he was thinking through out loud at the hearing. He mentioned aggravating factors like the long, detailed planning and the fact that the scheme for the next murder seemed to be launched right after Laura's murder. There really aren't any mitigating factors for either of them, but he may find the circumstantial evidence against Smich to be different enough that it suggests a different penalty. But the difference - 25 years parole eligibility - is so extreme that's it is hard to reasonably apply it to these two criminals and their actions. They were different, but probably not THAT different. Probably not 25 years different.

 

[JuneBug67]

I don’t think Justice Code will be making a statement about which one of the two (DM / MS) is more culpable in LB’s murder in his ruling re consecutive or concurrent sentences. Rather, I think he will be considering if one or both have any hope of rehabilitation. We must remember that the jury unanimously voted for a consecutive sentence for DM and only 5 of the jurors (IIRC) recommended consecutive for MS with the other 7 jurors abstaining from making any recommendation about MS. IMO this is what Justice Code may be taking into consideration among everything else - the jury’s perceived direction about sentencing for both convicted killers.

All MOO

He made the point pretty clearly that rehabilitation considerations were not a very important factor with serious crimes, which I thought was interesting. Rehabilitation is always the theoretical goal, but in crimes like these the safety of society and principles like denunciation, deterrence and punishment become more important.

 

[JuneBug67]

The term 'merk' is derived from the word mercenary. Posters who perceive that the killings were primarily motivated by plunder, paydays and profit have no shortage of things to point to in the evidence to support that. None at all.

 

[JuneBug67]

I don’t think Justice Code will be making a statement about which one of the two (DM / MS) is more culpable in LB’s murder in his ruling re consecutive or concurrent sentences. Rather, I think he will be considering if one or both have any hope of rehabilitation. We must remember that the jury unanimously voted for a consecutive sentence for DM and only 5 of the jurors (IIRC) recommended consecutive for MS with the other 7 jurors abstaining from making any recommendation about MS. IMO this is what Justice Code may be taking into consideration among everything else - the jury’s perceived direction about sentencing for both convicted killers.

All MOO

Your last sentence has made me consider that Code's thinking out loud on Smich may have been meant to be an on the record acknowledgement of the jury's role and the relevance of their opinions - but not necessarily reflective of his own gut and evidentiary sense of things in the end. His musing also served to solicit further arguments, which can only be of aid to him.

 

[brightii]

The term 'merk' is derived from the word mercenary. Posters who perceive that the killings were primarily motivated by plunder, paydays and profit have no shortage of things to point to in the evidence to support that. None at all.

Perhaps, except I highly doubt that those who use the term “merk” would know the origin of the word. lol

All MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

"People Saying Nice Things About Dellen Milard" - the Mob Reporter
LOL at that title.

The fulls Burns letter in YouTube form, a recommendation from a fellow prisoner and anther from the mother of a friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyrgI8zOOA

 

[jash]

"People Saying Nice Things About Dellen Milard" - the Mob Reporter
LOL at that title.

The fulls Burns letter in YouTube form, a recommendation from a fellow prisoner and anther from the mother of a friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyrgI8zOOA

BBM - I believe this person lived down the street from MB in Kleinburg. In the letter, she states she met a 17 yr old DM in 2003 when he struck up a friendship with her daughter. Over the years, he spent time at their house and stayed for dinner numerous times and even attended church with them.

 

[Velma]

"People Saying Nice Things About Dellen Milard" - the Mob Reporter
LOL at that title.

The fulls Burns letter in YouTube form, a recommendation from a fellow prisoner and anther from the mother of a friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyrgI8zOOA

I know we’ve discussed MB’s letter, but what does everyone think of the one from ‘the mother of a friend’?

My first thought was, “have you asked your daughter if she was sleeping with or sold drugs by DM?”. And in reality, is this mother more a friend of MB? I’m around the same age as DM and can’t see any of my friends’ parents sticking their neck out like that, although I’m a law-abiding non-psychopath

 

[jash]

I know we’ve discussed MB’s letter, but what does everyone think of the one from ‘the mother of a friend’?

My first thought was, “have you asked your daughter if she was sleeping with or sold drugs by DM?”. And in reality, is this mother more a friend of MB? I’m around the same age as DM and can’t see any of my friends’ parents sticking their neck out like that, although I’m a law-abiding non-psychopath

Agreed. Not only did she write the letter, but she attended the trial numerous times.

 

[Velma]

Agreed. Not only did she write the letter, but she attended the trial numerous times.

If I recall correctly, someone mentioned an older blonde “DM groupie” at trial. Do you think this is her?

 

[JuneBug67]

I found it mildly interesting that the Burns letter and the fellow convict letter seemed to be in different sizes of the same font. Both drafted in jail perhaps? Or transcribed in a lawyer’s office? Could of course just be coincidence.

I can understand how people like Susan maintain their faith. They just can’t reconcile the person they knew with the charges, and its a short step from there to believing an earnest Millard and a deluded Burns when they say he’s the victim of the justice system and the violent low life friend he gathered under his umbrella of protection.

There was talk in court of Millard being an enigma or a confounding contradiction, or words to that effect. In my view he’s not two people that are hard to reconcile, he’s one person who reliably pursues complete self gratification. It’s gratifying to be the intelligent and charming guy in the room, gratifying to get cottage invites and maybe proximity to a neighbour girl, gratifying to have women of all ages seem to throw themselves under the bus for him and gratifying to take what he wants at the source before destroying all evidence with total moral indifference.

 

[mimimic]

Agreed. Not only did she write the letter, but she attended the trial numerous times.

Maybe FOR MB.

 

[THXGuru]

He is an enigma or confounding contradiction because he is a psychopath. He cannot help to hide it and he is not aware that normal people are not like him. Justice Code has said he has been watching him. If you go watch a Jailhouse Paul Bernardo jailhouse interview, you seem hon how is also a enigma.

 

[JuneBug67]

He is an enigma or confounding contradiction because he is a psychopath. He cannot help to hide it and he is not aware that normal people are not like him. Justice Code has said he has been watching him. If you go watch a Jailhouse Paul Bernardo jailhouse interview, you seem hon how is also a enigma.

Agree! That Bernardo interview is another case of psychopathy 101. And of that sort that is chilling in its banality. But I don't find psychopaths to be enigmatic. The abnormality that spills out in varying degrees of subtlety never stops being strange and jarring, but I don't find it mysterious or puzzling.

 

[Just4TB]

Totally agree. Both were found guilty of M1. Does Justice Code then get to decide what percentage of the entire crime Smich was involved in? Can he even evaluate that? I wonder is any precedent has been set in past rulings. What can Justice Code consider in his decision and what can't he?

ETA: if the jury decided M1, can Justice Code then make decisions that would seem to imply he didn't agree with the jury?

Good questions.
In my opinion, so long as Justice Code gives a (mandatory) 2nd life sentence, then he is in agreement with the jury - MS guilty of M1.

Re: Parole eligibility...
The way I see it, Justice Code really must look at the LB murder alone in his sentencing. As the LB murder trial jury was not permitted to use the TB murder convictions in their deliberations, likewise, Code ought not use the earlier convictions and sentences in his sentencing for this charge. If they were not already convicted in the TB murder, what would they get? M1 carries a mandatory life sentence without parole for 25 years.

For this reason, I am anticipating a 2nd life sentence, consecutive to the first, with no parole eligibility for 25 additional years, for both convicted. Perhaps I need to draft up another celebratory poem...

 

[ABro]

I'm pretty sure Susan is the middle-aged blonde woman who attended the TB trial and read her bible during breaks. She was also there for Day 1 of the LB trial in the company of a man who is almost certainly her husband. She has no Facebook profile but her daughter does and looks just like her.

IMO, they're just people who can't believe that someone they know would do something evil. Plus even if he did, the lord says have mercy.

 

[THXGuru]

Agree! That Bernardo interview is another case of psychopathy 101. And of that sort that is chilling in its banality. But I don't find psychopaths to be enigmatic. The abnormality that spills out in varying degrees of subtlety never stops being strange and jarring, but I don't find it mysterious or puzzling.

Glad you can see my point. In the Bernardo video it is astonishing to watch him tell the detectives “you can call me a murderer or a dangerous offender, but don’t call me a liar”. With Millard, he did an interview where he said he has great admiration for the Justice System. The over thing was in the letter to Code where his cell mate says Millard gives him inspiration in that he is not giving up his fight. I do believe Millard is an enigma and Code said he has two sides to his personality. Or something like that. One is a very dangerous side I think he said