Lawrence Schiller now believes the intruder theory!!!

[dingo]

But Patsy managed to scrub Jonnie B up for padgent days..

 

[sissi]

Patsy said she bathed her Christmas eve. She had on long pants all day, then switched to the black velvet ones, there was no transfer of dna through layers of clothing.

 

[dingo]

Patsy said she bathed her Christmas eve. She had on long pants all day, then switched to the black velvet ones, there was no transfer of dna through layers of clothing.

Where can I find that information...I havent read DOI and cant get a copy anywhere.

 

[sissi]

Most of the information can be found within her depo and interviews. Acandyrose.com

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Where can I find that information...I havent read DOI and cant get a copy anywhere.

I found mine at a second-hand book store. I was thrilled as I never would have paid full price.

 

[dingo]

Most of the information can be found within her depo and interviews. Acandyrose.com

Thanks Sissi..Ill go and have a look.

 

[narlacat]

Where can I find that information...I havent read DOI and cant get a copy anywhere.

Dingo, I haven't come across it either, like in a book shop.
But if I do, I'll grab a copy for you and post it to you!
Maybe Ebay?

 

[dingo]

I found mine at a second-hand book store. I was thrilled as I never would have paid full price.

I always check my local SH book store...Ive managed to buy PMPT and Steve Thomas,s book...but no luck with DOI..proberly wouldnt have the stomach to read it anyway.

 

[dingo]

Dingo, I haven't come across it either, like in a book shop.
But if I do, I'll grab a copy for you and post it to you!
Maybe Ebay?

Thanks Narla

 

[BBB167893]

"JonBenet, Daphne, John and Fleet made jewelry at the White home Christmas day. That is twice JonBenet played with jewelry making kits. Could the DNA come from those kits...or from the White's carpet??? Sure.

The facts are that the DNA could have come from anywhere. JonBenet did not bathe, wash her hands, usually had dirty nails so...."

Toltec, et al., what would you say if I said I knew of a case where anonymous DNA was found on a murdered kid and the most likely suspect STILL got convicted?

 

[shiloh]

And just how did the intruder manage to get fibers from JR's shirt in JBR's underwear? This was revealed during the videotaped interview of JR on 8/29/00. That was one clever intruder.

I'm quoting myself here. Those fibers were not necessarily from JR's shirt. Those may be the same dark fibers which are said to have the foreign DNA.

I don't believe that John Ramsey ever harmed his daughter.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm quoting myself here. Those fibers were not necessarily from JR's shirt. Those may be the same dark fibers which are said to have the foreign DNA.

I don't believe that John Ramsey ever harmed in daughter.

What made you change your mind?

They could be at that, but the prosecutors were pretty sure.

 

[shiloh]

What made you change your mind?

They could be at that, but the prosecutors were pretty sure.

I'm just trying to stand back a bit and look at everything a bit more objectively.

I believe Wecht's analysis that she was sexually abused within a few days before the murder. But that doesn't mean it was John Ramsey who was abusing her, nor does it mean that that abuse was done by the same person as whoever killed her.

I don't believe that John Ramsey ever harmed JonBenet any more than he harmed the rest of his children.

"I'm John Ramseys daughter. I grew up with him, he raised me and I saw him raise JonBenet and I don't understand why they don't believe me --- That he is the most caring father in the world. He has never ever, ever abused us in any way. I just wish I could say something to convince them." -- Melinda Ramsey

 

[sissi]

I don't believe Wecht's analysis, chances are ,since we've learned of Meyer's influence on the grand jury that he saw NO indication of this. I had considered it before, however, that juror's statement made it clear IMO that it was not the case. For awhile I thought it would be the motive, for someone close to the family to silence Jonbenet. I guess not!

 

[Goody]

The DNA could have come from anyone, anywhere along the line of the panty's production, packaging and shipping. The fact that it was minute and degraded suggests it had nothing to do with the night in question.

Go get your little CSI kit and test anything you want. Odds are it will have foreign DNA of unknown origin.

Good points.

 

[Goody]

We don't have a clue when Jonbenet had her last bath....I do know that she got gussied up Christmas Eve, Purple dress, velvet shoes, etc... she might have bathed then. She went to visit her little friend Megan Constanza, Church, went to dinner at Pasta Jays...then dropped by the White home.

Christmas day she played outside, played inside, soiled her play pants and didn't bathe before heading out to the Whites.

DNA??? Should I say "degraded DNA"?

I thought she was bathed that night. Is that not part of the evidence?

 

[UKGuy]

By the way, I am shortly going on a trip to New York and will purchase size 12 Bloomies when I am there.

I am taking advantage of the fact that our Tootsie is almost identical in size and weight to JonBenet at this moment and I am going to see what the oversized knickers would have looked like on JBR.

My Tootsie already has size 4-6 Bloomies which are the correct size for her just now. Ramsey supporters have argued that there wouldn't be THAT much difference in size, so I will do a proper experiment to see. I'm not sure how I am going to record this for decency's sake but what I might do is photograph the two sizes side by side for websleuthers to see. I'm also curious to see just how big the larger sized knickers would be on her.

Jayelles,

As long as Bloomingdale's have not resized or redesigned those packs then your results will be very interesting.

For decency's sake, have you considered a mid-torso shot, e.g. cropped from the thighs upwards and the stomach downwards, that should be fairly private and non-attributable?

Bloomingdale’s appears to be undergoing a redesign of its underwear presentation, and new ranges.

Bloomingdale’s new intimate apparel department will put a heavy focus on service, which has traditionally lagged in department stores. At the 59th Street store in Manhattan, there are two “concierges” on the sales floor at all time to consult with shoppers; there are phones in the fitting room to make it easier to call sales employees; and the most popular products are stored, in all available sizes, in the dressing room area.

Apparently this area of the market is growing fast.

How about this for a twist on this topic:

"Shame on You" special report, New York's CBS 2, November 2003.

The TV channel went undercover after hearing from a former store employee about how women would buy fancy underwear for one-time use, then return it to stores... where it was relabelled and resold as new.

And...

CBS 2 investigators purchased thong underwear from Macy's, Victoria's Secret, Bloomingdale's and Saks Fifth Avenue. They cut off the price tags (to signify that the underwear was "used") and marked two black dots on the labels. Then they returned the goods to the stores. All of the stores accepted the returns, and none even asked if the underwear had been worn. On return trips to the stores, the investigators found their marked underwear had been put back on the rack at every store except Bloomingdale's.

Although I dont have access to the original article apparently they even had hidden camera evidence to back them up.

The underlying unanswered question was: Does pre-worn underwear actually get resold at these up-market stores?

Luckily our question has been aswered in the negative, which may be of some relevance?

.

 

[BBB167893]

"I believe Wecht's analysis that she was sexually abused within a few days before the murder. But that doesn't mean it was John Ramsey who was abusing her, nor does it mean that that abuse was done by the same person as whoever killed her."

You're right. Even now, I wonder if it wasn't just two kids messing around.

"chances are ,since we've learned of Meyer's influence on the grand jury that he saw NO indication of this. I had considered it before, however, that juror's statement made it clear IMO that it was not the case. For awhile I thought it would be the motive, for someone close to the family to silence Jonbenet. I guess not!"

We don't know that, sissi. A lot of assumptions, but no real facts either way.

 

[Eagle1]

I started a thread couple days ago, to work on Ramsey innocence and make a case for an intruder. But in the interest of closed minds, it has gone down to the deepy dark belows, archival bound I guess.

Keep in mind that my eternal thoughts are that the R's have secrets about the murder of their little girl.

To be open and fairminded, to explore other avenues seems to be out of luck on this forum. To enable our route down a different road, WE are greatly handicapped, by NOT knowing ALL of the known facts that BPD has in their grip.

Wonder where all of the physical evidence is stored these days? Plus word upon word of spoken words buried in dusty pages somewhere. Those bags and bags of STUFF taken from the home by BPD, and all of the items that Pam took with BPD assistance.

Do you post at some other forums?

Does anyone remember an old(?) carving on a tree outside JonBenet's window, which tree had some rope in it? Or is my vague memory totally wrong? Would that have been in PMPT or ST?

Someone mentioned at another forum there was a movie with the title "M", which was what was carved on the tree. In the movie, the perp whistled "In the Hall of the Mountain King", which is from Peer Gynt sneaking into a castle(?) They say this movie is still available, online archives. The story involves another little girl, about six I think they may have said, plot maybe similar to "Nick of Time". Mind you, I'm not at all sure I remember there being an initial on that tree, or even that there was some rope in the tree. Was it similar to the rope used in the garrotte? I don't think so. But don't trust my memory. Does anyone else have the same memory?

In the Martha Moxley story, one of the boys sometimes climbed a tree outside her window. It must happen a lot.

 

[sissi]

I don't remember it in a book, not that it's not there, I thought it was something Shapiro said about a tree house?? Maybe?


M.....A psychotic child murderer stalks a city, and despite an exhaustive investigation fueled by public hysteria and outcry, the police have been unable to find him. But the police crackdown does have one side-affect, it makes it nearly impossible for the organized criminal underground to operate. So they decide that the only way to get the police off their backs is to catch the murderer themselves. Besides, he is giving them a bad name.



But then again, Ren and Stimpy did an M, and it was censored out in the US.