"Lawyering Up"

[metalcrystal]

I thought LE did a pretty awesome job checking out all KC's lies before they called her on the carpet.

KC never told LE she or her family was being threatened. She took her child to the nanny, the nanny disappeared with the child. That was her story. They gave her every opportunity to change it

That was one of her mothers attempts at spinning, remember, MOTY.

 

[Manny]

I thought she told her brother that , I am not sure of anything anymore.

LOL
However, if there was a threat telling LE would be the last thing you would do, if she was told that if she said anything Caylee would be harmed. Perhaps she didn't think her mother would call the police without asking any questions. It seemed as thought her brother was the only one that would listen to her and why not, she lied all the time to her parents. I guess I can just see how that evening probably played out. I doubt there was any sincere listening.. Cindy wanted to see Caylee, period. Just a thought that bugs me on some days. Something is missing here, for me, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Kimster]

CA wouldn't call a lawyer. She couldn't afford one.

 

[LCoastMom]

I thought she told her brother that , I am not sure of anything anymore. LOL
However, if there was a threat telling LE would be the last thing you would do, if she was told that if she said anything Caylee would be harmed. Perhaps she didn't think her mother would call the police without asking any questions. It seemed as thought her brother was the only one that would listen to her and why not, she lied all the time to her parents. I guess I can just see how that evening probably played out. I doubt there was any sincere listening.. Cindy wanted to see Caylee, period. Just a thought that bugs me on some days. Something is missing here, for me, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

IIRC Cindy picked up KC around 7 or 730pm from TonE's, it was close to 10pm when Cindy made that 3rd phone call, Cindy and KC had been driving around in Cindy's car for hours before that 3rd call was made. Cindy was tired of KC refusing to tell her where Caylee was and I assure you if I had been jacked around by my daughter for a month I wouldn't have listened to her as long as Cindy did!!

 

[MD MOMMY]

IMO when CA called 911 one of the first few times it was to threaten KC. That is why CA made up the stolen car story. She thought if I can get them to come out here for ANY reason KC will own up to where Caylee is. I don't think any of them understood the magnitude of the situation except for KC. JMO.

I know and my entire family knows not to speak to LE upon arrest without an attorney period. Heck I don't even say 1 word when I get pulled over for a speeding ticket.

 

[Manny]

Tried to add your quote but for some reason it wouldn't work. Sorry you were misquoted by my post. I didn't do it!!! I swear I am calling my lawyer right now. !!!

wrong name on this quote:

Originally Posted by metalcrystal

I thought she told her brother that , I am not sure of anything anymore. LOL
However, if there was a threat telling LE would be the last thing you would do, if she was told that if she said anything Caylee would be harmed. Perhaps she didn't think her mother would call the police without asking any questions. It seemed as thought her brother was the only one that would listen to her and why not, she lied all the time to her parents. I guess I can just see how that evening probably played out. I doubt there was any sincere listening.. Cindy wanted to see Caylee, period. Just a thought that bugs me on some days. Something is missing here, for me, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Fear of appearing guilty is not a good reason to forego legal representation; there is no good reason to forego legal representation. They can't lock you up forever because they think you're suspicious, but they can and will lock you up for accidentally incriminating yourself in a misguided attempt to be helpful.

This is an excellent video that I have recommended to all of my friends and family. I'm forever glad that I watched it before I needed it! It changed my perspective on the appearance of guilt, and I'm hoping some of you might find it eye opening as well. It's a little long, but its message is IMO extremely important and just might save your behind one day. It's by Professor James Duane, and it's titled "Don't Talk to the Police":

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

 

[RR0004]

No, there wouldn't be if it's sealed, would there?


But I remember Sheriff Kevin Beary stated during a news conference, "All I know is that there's additional charges because this young lady has definitely got a bit of a criminal past."

Why would he say that unless she does have a juvie record?

http://www.wesh.com/news/17377729/detail.html (for above quote, scroll down to New Charges Filed Against....)

I remember that very well. Don't know if it was just talk, though...the only thing we were able to find was a traffic violation...but he may have been referring to stealing money from relatives (whether it was checks or credit cards) 'cause Cindy had already gone to the banks involved.

 

[AZlawyer]

I remember that very well. Don't know if it was just talk, though...the only thing we were able to find was a traffic violation...but he may have been referring to stealing money from relatives (whether it was checks or credit cards) 'cause Cindy had already gone to the banks involved.

I assumed the sheriff was talking about criminal acts in her past--i.e., theft, forgery, fraud, etc.--not actual prosecutions.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Fear of appearing guilty is not a good reason to forego legal representation; there is no good reason to forego legal representation. They can't lock you up forever because they think you're suspicious, but they can and will lock you up for accidentally incriminating yourself in a misguided attempt to be helpful.

This is an excellent video that I have recommended to all of my friends and family. I'm forever glad that I watched it before I needed it! It changed my perspective on the appearance of guilt, and I'm hoping some of you might find it eye opening as well. It's a little long, but its message is IMO extremely important and just might save your behind one day. It's by Professor James Duane, and it's titled "Don't Talk to the Police":

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

I fully agree that in the ordinary case, if you are suspected of committing a crime or if you have committed a crime, talk to a lawyer before you talk to the police. But here, the As and BC say they are not suspected of committing a crime, and say they have done nothing wrong.

If what you were saying was correct, then every victim/witness of every armed robbery etc would lawyer up before talking to police, every bank teller, every person in the bank's line-up etc.

 

[amysmom]

I think Cindy called LE as a bluff. I think she thought Caylee was fine but being purposely kept somewhere away from her. You can sense that from the tone of her voice in the first 911 call. I think she thought if she called police that Casey would back down and admit where she was. I think if there was some fear at the time they found the car, once they knew neither Casey nor Caylee were in the car...I think they believed they were both ok. By the time Cindy made the 2nd and 3rd 911 calls, I think she was in a state of panic and not thinking very clearly.

I truly think they believed her story about the nanny - which is why they let her talk to LE. The sound of her voice in that 3rd call really seems to indicate to me she thought the nanny had Caylee. By the time they realized how much trouble Casey was in, it was too late to call an attorney. JMO

But CA went back to work later that day & told co-workers about the horrible "smell"..They were concerned but she wasn't?..That's hard to believe & she thought it was decomp by the time she made the 3rd 911 call even if she was in denial earlier..She knew the doll was left behind in the car & from everything we've heard Caylee went no place without it..I don't buy the 2 doll spec so this had to be a major RED FLAG to CA..She told AH she was afraid something was wrong/happened to Caylee..I feel there's even more too that disputes the idea she thought she was "ok" but I still don't have any reasonable explanation for why the 911 calls were all so different..

 

[ChasingMoxie]

I fully agree that in the ordinary case, if you are suspected of committing a crime or if you have committed a crime, talk to a lawyer before you talk to the police. But here, the As and BC say they are not suspected of committing a crime, and say they have done nothing wrong.

If what you were saying was correct, then every victim/witness of every armed robbery etc would lawyer up before talking to police, every bank teller, every person in the bank's line-up etc.

If you watch the video, you would see that that is precisely his point: if you are innocent, get a lawyer. Innocent people can ONLY harm their position by talking without representation. It goes against polite thinking, but if my child is the one on the line, you can bet I'm going to make sure we have the best odds in our favor. Mistakes happen ALL THE TIME.

 

[LCoastMom]

Fear of appearing guilty is not a good reason to forego legal representation; there is no good reason to forego legal representation. They can't lock you up forever because they think you're suspicious, but they can and will lock you up for accidentally incriminating yourself in a misguided attempt to be helpful.

This is an excellent video that I have recommended to all of my friends and family. I'm forever glad that I watched it before I needed it! It changed my perspective on the appearance of guilt, and I'm hoping some of you might find it eye opening as well. It's a little long, but its message is IMO extremely important and just might save your behind one day. It's by Professor James Duane, and it's titled "Don't Talk to the Police":

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

This is a great set of lectures and totally makes sense, as scary as it is to think someone honestly trying to help can end up being charged and found guilty. As someone who was raised to believe LEO's are your friend, it's a new world we live in.

 

[doglover]

If you watch the video, you would see that that is precisely his point: if you are innocent, get a lawyer. Innocent people can ONLY harm their position by talking without representation. It goes against polite thinking, but if my child is the one on the line, you can bet I'm going to make sure we have the best odds in our favor. Mistakes happen ALL THE TIME.

Absolutely CM. Great point. I have worked for lawyers all my life and that is the one single thing they have drilled into my head - never, but never talk to LE without an attorney. Thankfully, I have never had to do so because I've always been on the 'right' side of the law and have never committed a crime (that I know of). As you mentioned, it does go against 'polite' thinking -- i.e., that if I didn't do anything, I have nothing to hide and can talk freely. But, as we know, it doesn't always work that way. Innocent people are convicted by seemingly innocent statements more than we'd like to know.

 

[amysmom]

Casey is an adult (over the age of 18) and she has the right to speak or not speak with the police on the day the police were at her parent's home on July 15th. Casey voluntarily spoke to LE and then went with LE on July 16th to Universal and then sat in a room and answered questions. All Casey had to do was "ask for an attorney" and the interview would have been over.

I think Casey was smart enough not to ask for an attorney because if she asked for one that would "assume" Casey had something to hide. :waitasec:

Just the other day I listened again to Yuri's bond hearing testimony..JB kept hammering him with "did you ask her if she wanted an attorney" during the taped interview at Universal..Each time he said "no" as JB kept bringing up all the LIES they caught her telling..I guess LE didn't have to do that? but what struck me the most was how DUMB his own client was for not thinking of it herself..She had to know she was in deep doo-doo (they even told her so) & still it never dawned on her! :waitasec:

 

[Chilly Willy]

Should have a called a lawyer...if they smelled decomposition...and if they had ANY suspsion whatsoever....and even if in denial....would have been the prudent thing to do. Now...all the tapes they have on her are so damning...never could figure out how they allowed her to talk so much early on.

Casey is an adult. She allowed herself to talk. If I learned that my grandchild had not been seen for a month I'd call LE immediately. Calling an attorney first wouldn't even cross my mind.

 

[Bobbisangel]

From what I remember from the first 911 call. I think on the 16th or 17th the A's had LE check the back yard as they saw some suspicious things back there. I remember when the news showed them sitting at their kitchen table and there were two attorneys at the house at the table and the detectives asked the lawyers if they could search and they said yes.
I just dont know what has happened to those attorneys since then, I haven't seen them..? lol

Were they attorneys or detectives? I've never heard of attorneys asking to search anything.

 

[Bobbisangel]

This is a great set of lectures and totally makes sense, as scary as it is to think someone honestly trying to help can end up being charged and found guilty. As someone who was raised to believe LEO's are your friend, it's a new world we live in.

I was raised the same way. I've always thought that if you are innocent why the need for an attorney because hiring an attorney makes you look like you are guilty. I now know the smart thing to do is to get an attorney but I still have trouble with it. Down deep I think...why not just be honest with LE if you are innocent. I also know that it doesn't always work out though.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Absolutely CM. Great point. I have worked for lawyers all my life and that is the one single thing they have drilled into my head - never, but never talk to LE without an attorney. Thankfully, I have never had to do so because I've always been on the 'right' side of the law and have never committed a crime (that I know of). As you mentioned, it does go against 'polite' thinking -- i.e., that if I didn't do anything, I have nothing to hide and can talk freely. But, as we know, it doesn't always work that way. Innocent people are convicted by seemingly innocent statements more than we'd like to know.

I think there are 2 separate issues here...I AGREE that if you are suspected of, or have committed a crime, you need a lawyer. A regular witness to a crime does not need a lawyer. If your son is in the line up of a bank that is robbed, the robber is shot dead...are you really going to hire a lawyer for your son before you let him give a statement to police?

 

[Sleuth5]

I have standing instructions to my children to say nothing and immediately request a lawyer if they are ever arrested . It is their right. I have seen some pretty shady cops in my day especially the way they treat young people in my area.

I don't have children to whom to pass such information, but having worked in LE myself, I don't hesitate to give the same advice to friends, relatives, etc. In no way does this suggest that I do not recognize and appreciate the hard work and vital service provided by the men and women of law enforcement. However, it's just plain good advice.

One of the best examples of why you ought to do this may be found any night on nearly any cop show (reality or otherwise) -- there's always a moment when the officer or investigator says, "You need to help yourself out here," which always caused me to smile. After all, how in the world are you going to "help yourself" by giving the police information they intend to use against you if they can? Let's face it, what it really means is "You need to help me out here." I suppose you can do that as you will.

I, for one, care not a whit for whether or not the police take an attitude one way or the other in response to someone's requesting counsel. This is a fundamental right to which any citizen of this country is entitled. It is not the function of the police to concern themselves with the exercise of such rights, and inference by inuendo that a suspect is "guilty" or "hiding something" because he or she chooses not to speak with them is simply lazy police work at best, and at worst, perilously close to espousing the sort of "guilty until proven innocent" mentality that is supposed to represent the antithesis of a country such as ours.