Learn Something New Every Day

[twilight]

hm ... interesting thread. (Returning to capps initial point...) So, would the ransom note being the only concrete evidence in the case (quoting ST here), and its authorship, for which there is a lot of agreement among those who study such things (quoting myself and many others), was produced by Patsy; would this then be a statement written by a deceased person and thus not admissable?

 

[UKGuy]

Absolutely, that is the reason I was interested - after Rashomon explained that fibers consistent with Patsy's sweater were found under the duck tape that was over JB's mouth. Patsy says that she was all over JB when they brought her up from the basement and that is how fibers were transferred. BUT, the tape was not on JB at that moment; it was left downstairs on top of the blanket. (I know, Lee says that the defense will argue that the fibers could have been transferred from the blanket which was around JB, the same blanket that had been on her bed and when Patsy put her to bed, her jacket fibers got on the blanket and whoever killed JB took the blanket and any fibers found were result of transferring. Those fibers have been travelling according to Patsy.
I dont' think so.

Solace,

Do you have a source that states those blankets originated from JonBenet's bed?

Fleet White went back to inspect the 'duct' tape ...


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[UKGuy]

can we get back to the red fibers from patsy's sweater in her paint tray and her claim that she never wore that red sweater while painting. to me, that's the most damning piece of evidence in this case. does anyone feel that way?

ellen13,

Its not so much damning, more it links her to the staged crime scene.

Since the fibers are only consistent, its not claimed they are a direct match.

I have mentioned before it might help to split the staging into separate stages e.g the top and lower halves of her body.

Some people consider the manner in which she was wiped down to be something a woman might do.

Then again why the size-12's?

Her upper halve is staged to appear as if she is dressed in her day-clothes, even her hair is done up.

Personally I see more than one set of hands at work here, that is the ransom note and probable dumping of JonBenet's corpse was vetoed, so she was re-staged ...



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[less0305]

Nuisance poster:

You said it in the exactly like I wish I could have said it!!! Excellent post, imo.

Less

 

[Nova]

hm ... interesting thread. (Returning to capps initial point...) So, would the ransom note being the only concrete evidence in the case (quoting ST here), and its authorship, for which there is a lot of agreement among those who study such things (quoting myself and many others), was produced by Patsy; would this then be a statement written by a deceased person and thus not admissable?

Twi, it might be a problem if a prosecutor tried to use the ransom note to prove the truth of its contents (e.g., that the Small Foreign Faction indeed meant to kill JBR if the police were called). Because the defendant couldn't cross-examine the writer of the note, if that is PR.

But if PR wrote the note, then it's nonsense anyway, so I don't think that will be an issue.

The RN is still available as a piece of evidence in and of itself, including paper, handwriting, etc. And a lawyer can still argue that the contents, while not factual, have certain implications.

 

[rashomon]

ellen13,

Its not so much damning, more it links her to the staged crime scene.

Since the fibers are only consistent, its not claimed they are a direct match.

I have mentioned before it might help to split the staging into separate stages e.g the top and lower halves of her body.

Some people consider the manner in which she was wiped down to be something a woman might do.

Then again why the size-12's?

Her upper halve is staged to appear as if she is dressed in her day-clothes, even her hair is done up.

Personally I see more than one set of hands at work here, that is the ransom note and probable dumping of JonBenet's corpse was vetoed, so she was re-staged ...

From what I have read about other true crime cases, lab techs ansd forensic scientists always use the phrase 'consistent with', and never say 'direct match'. So if they actally said that the fibers found on the duct tape and in the paint tray were 'consistent with' the fibers of Pats'y clothes, this is in fact pretty damaging evidence.

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

against Patsy, why wasn't she charged.Presumably because there was other evidence clearing her..She is dead now so I hope you Ramsey haters will leave her alone...unless new evidence comes forward and the Boulder DA comes forward and makes a determination she likely did commit the crime.:boohoo:

 

[rashomon]

against Patsy, why wasn't she charged.Presumably because there was other evidence clearing her..She is dead now so I hope you Ramsey haters will leave her alone...unless new evidence comes forward and the Boulder DA comes forward and makes a determination she likely did commit the crime.:boohoo:

No evidence whatsoever cleared Patsy. The reasons why the Ramseys were never charged are multifold, but have nothing to do with lack of evidence.
There were cowards both in the police department and in the DA's office who let themselves be intimidated by the Ramsey lawyers. That's the main reason why Patsy got away with it.

 

[Amraann]

From what I have read about other true crime cases, lab techs ansd forensic scientists always use the phrase 'consistent with', and never say 'direct match'. So if they actally said that the fibers found on the duct tape and in the paint tray were 'consistent with' the fibers of Pats'y clothes, this is in fact pretty damaging evidence.

The is nothing "consistent" with this case..
The crime scene was completly and totally corrupted.
The Boulder PD totally screwed up.
Weather the later assumption was the parents are guilty (as in the Dawolby case) due to police kindergarden.. or if an indruder was responsible??
Personally I reserve my presumption of guilt and think the focus then and now should be laid at the feet of those who should have known how to handle the situation and did not. The POLICE.
IMO if they had done their jobs we would not all be here right now wondering.
I will even take that further ... I do not blame the few officers on the scene as they themselves were not prepared ... I blame those who did not trane them to be prepared.

 

[sissi]

NUIANCE POSTER:

there's several of your points I've either never heard OR THEY have never been coorborated.

There was only ONE fact on the list!!

 

[UKGuy]

From what I have read about other true crime cases, lab techs ansd forensic scientists always use the phrase 'consistent with', and never say 'direct match'. So if they actally said that the fibers found on the duct tape and in the paint tray were 'consistent with' the fibers of Pats'y clothes, this is in fact pretty damaging evidence.

rashomon,

Sure its damaging, but its not a smoking gun, since Patsy lives in the house.

'consistent with' is simply legal jargon for, currently we have not found anything to contradict this assertion

In court fibers from another source may be produced employing the same phraseology in defense of Patsy.

Some people contend that the staging was an attempt to frame the Ramseys, so the fibers may be there for reasons other than Patsy's presence.


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[RiverRat]

JonBenet's hair was not "done up." Try more like sectioned off with ponytail holders as her little roots were coming back in dark.

Things that SHOULD make you go Hmmmmmmm.

 

[Camper]

blueclouds,

Quote that was in response to Nuisance poster ""there's several of your points I've either never heard OR THEY have never been coorborated.

--->>>blueclouds, how does a person 'coorborate'?


----->>>sissi, what is the only 'one' fact ? of nuisance posters post you think is accurate, donut keep us in suspense.


--->>>UKGuy,

Some people contend that the staging was an attempt to frame the Ramseys, so the fibers may be there for reasons other than Patsy's presence.

So did the 'perp' creep into the R master bedroom in the night and touched her jacket with the disappearing duct tape, OR did the 'perp' creep up behind her while she was cleaning fingerprints off the flashlight batteries, er, splain please. HOW did the fibres get on the duct tape from PR's Christmas jacket, it being Christmas day and all AND she appeared to have worn it before/during and after the murder?

------IF IF PR did it we cannot convict a dead person can WE? IF she 'only' wrote the note or REcopied it, she cannot be convicted either.


About something NEW to learn, I had another NEW thought today, about the work another poster and I and later on one more poster joined us in our late night chats on Yahoo about this case.

WE worked hard on establishing the JAR would have had the time to commute from GA etc.

Here is the new thought: WHAT if JAR stayed in Atlanta, and the other two alibi guys made the trip. Betcha the PD Never tracked those two guys because they all had ticket stubs for the movie that all three of them 'supposedly' went to Christmas night in GA. So JAR was indeed in GA, but the other two would keep their silence forever on this new thought of mine. What was the payoff, was there one?

Was this why JR wanted to head off to Atlanta ASAP the day the body was found, saying he had business to tend to in Atlanta??

Someone refresh my memory on how long AFTER the murder the Atlanta three produced their movie stubs???

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[capps]

hm ... interesting thread. (Returning to capps initial point...) So, would the ransom note being the only concrete evidence in the case (quoting ST here), and its authorship, for which there is a lot of agreement among those who study such things (quoting myself and many others), was produced by Patsy; would this then be a statement written by a deceased person and thus not admissable?

twilight,

Thanks for bringing it back to the topic.
Good question! I tend to think the ransom note,would not be under this catagory,because it is actually part of the crime scene.

My thinking is,no one knows with 100% certainty who wrote the note,so why would it be inadmissible because Patsy died?

 

[Amraann]

JonBenet's hair was not "done up." Try more like sectioned off with ponytail holders as her little roots were coming back in dark.

Things that SHOULD make you go Hmmmmmmm.

Nothing makes me go hmmm..

As a little blondie haired kid ... every summer my hair summer sunned bleached..

By Dec?? I had roots from being inside during the cold months.

 

[BeeBee]

Nothing makes me go hmmm..

As a little blondie haired kid ... every summer my hair summer sunned bleached..

By Dec?? I had roots from being inside during the cold months.

I bought some of that spray on stuff for my granddaughter. I think blonde streaks in her hair will look cute. The sun is supposed to pull the color when you spray it on.

 

[UKGuy]

JonBenet's hair was not "done up." Try more like sectioned off with ponytail holders as her little roots were coming back in dark.

Things that SHOULD make you go Hmmmmmmm.

RiverRat,

Thank you for your remarks, whichever words you wish to use, I consider this aspect important. There are other interpretations that can be placed upon her hair being sectioned off.

Although I already had this in mind, it was reinforced recently whilst reading Tutankhamen: The life and Death of a Boy King.

Part of the forensic analysis, which was crucial, focused on the fact he had been buried/mummified with a shaven head.

Giving it some thought I speculated the sectioned off parts were done after she was dead and not before.


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[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

So did the 'perp' creep into the R master bedroom in the night and touched her jacket with the disappearing duct tape, OR did the 'perp' creep up behind her while she was cleaning fingerprints off the flashlight batteries, er, splain please. HOW did the fibres get on the duct tape from PR's Christmas jacket, it being Christmas day and all AND she appeared to have worn it before/during and after the murder?

------IF IF PR did it we cannot convict a dead person can WE? IF she 'only' wrote the note or REcopied it, she cannot be convicted either.

Camper,

I dont know its not a theory I wish to promote, maybe her jacket was hung up downstairs, who knows.

I accept she is linked to the staged crime scene by those fibers, so imo she is good for it or assisted with the staging.

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[twilight]

Because capp, if you're going to make a case that would go to court, it would be necessary to establish through linguistic testimony who wrote the note. (and we know it was PR, so that is where you would have to go to make this case). A jury would have to accept that PR wrote the note as part of the evidence and in my opinion (shared by others) there is no other possible author. So, PR being dead, what happens to that evidence?

If you believe an intruder wrote the note, it doesn't matter who dies, other than the mysterious intruder of course.

And if you believe a 9 year old kid wrote the note ... no comment!!!

Hey Nova - it's been years!

 

[narlacat]

I'm sure Patsy herself said whoever wrote the note killed JonBenet.