Learn Something New Every Day

[Holdontoyourhat]

Assumption?

Pineapple IN JonBenet - Pineapple ON table.

Should I assume she was in the yard???

No, you can assume she was in the basement, though.

 

[BBB167893]

But it wasn't.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

But it wasn't.

What wasn't?

 

[Solace]

Right, because the wrist ties were so loose they slipped right off.

Another thing John is lying about. He said they were tied so tightly he could not remove them.

 

[BBB167893]

Another thing John is lying about. He said they were tied so tightly he could not remove them.

Yes. We know that to be a falsehood.

The pineapple wasn't, HOTYH.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

What wasn't?

Yes. We know that to be a falsehood.

The pineapple wasn't, HOTYH.

The pineapple wasn't a falsehood? I never said it was. The question is where she ate it.

 

[Solace]

Yes. We know that to be a falsehood.

The pineapple wasn't, HOTYH.

The pineapple was almost completely digested. THat would suggest at least two hours after arriving home she was killed. Say around 12midnight?

 

[UKGuy]

I believe the stager wiped her down to see if the wound she inflicted on JB's vagina would look convincing enough.


But what interest could a stager coming from the family have had to dress JonBenet in her day clothes? For this would imply a (very implausible imo) story where JonBenet was abducted while she and her whole family hadn't gone to bed yet on Christmas night.

There has been some discussion if JB's hair was done up the way it was because her roots were going to get a color touch-up.
But I think Patsy would have done that before Christmas, and not after. And the autopsy pictures from the back of JB's head seem to confirm this: they clearly show that her hair had already been freshly colored blond. JB's hair also appeared to be very thin, probably from all that frequent coloring and putting it on rollers. Poor child.

It has also been discussed whether the room in which JB was found (the wine cellar) was also the room in which the paint tray and brushes were kept. Obviously not. For housekeeper LHP did not even know that this room existed. But since Patsy had asked her to take her painting equipment down to the basement (which LHP did), she must have put it in another basement room than the wine cellar.

I believe the stager wiped her down to see if the wound she inflicted on JB's vagina would look convincing enough.

Well given the current debate regarding whether or not she was actually assaulted, the stager possibly did not inspect for long enough?

But what interest could a stager coming from the family have had to dress JonBenet in her day clothes? For this would imply a (very implausible imo) story where JonBenet was abducted while she and her whole family hadn't gone to bed yet on Christmas night.

I'm assuming as per the pineapple that JonBenet was awake and still dressed in her day-clothes, so the intial staging, possibly undertaken upstairs, revolved around her day-clothes, I speculate it was a later staging where some of her day-clothes were removed with the intention of simulating a bedtime abduction.


Now everyone can opine on this aspect: Where about in the house were the hair-ties affixed to Jonbenet's asymmetric ponytails?

If it was done in the wine-cellar does this mean the stager stopped and ran upstairs for hair-ties, or was it done whilst she lay on a bed upstairs?

Was it done after she had her pineapple snack, but before the ransom note was composed, or after this since there is evidence of subsequent staging?


.

 

[aussiesheila]

With all due respect and I do not mean to be rude, but your theory is absurd.

Yes, that's what everyone says Solace. It makes perfect sense to me. I cannot understand why people think it is absurd.

 

[Jayelles]

The pineapple was almost completely digested. THat would suggest at least two hours after arriving home she was killed. Say around 12midnight?

2-5 hours.

If she ate the pineapple when she came home, then her parents lied about her being asleep.

If she ate the pineapple just before the left for the Whites at 4.30pm, then she died shortly after arriving home.

As Lou Smit says - the pineapple is the "bugaboo".

 

[aussiesheila]

For many reasons, but the main things that stand out to me are:

1. JonBenet's wrists do not show any signs that she was restrained by them while alive. I would definitely think there would be bruises on her wrists from being molested while standing on a chair with her hands tied overhead, especially if a stun gun is being used on her.

2. I cannot imagine Patsy knowingly and willingly allowing anyone, let alone a group of pedophiles, to sexually abuse JonBenet - especially on Christmas night when the Rs have an early flight out of state planned for the next morning.

3. I see no evidence that FW would have been involved in such a thing, or that JE would be his contact at BPD that is enabling some pedophile ring to operate.

1. The cord was tied over the top of the sleeves of her shirt so the material would have provided some protection. Also the loops around the wrist were larger than the wrist circumference, but not large enough to slip over her hands. If there was any weight placed on her arms the tougher skin on the edges of her hands would have taken most of it and I think any marks would be minimal.
2. I do not say ever that Patsy knowingly and willingly allowing anyone, let alone a group of pedophiles, sexually abuse JonBenet. She let JonBenet be minded by her grandfather and friends of hers, she let JonBenet go to their house and play with their daughter, she took JonBenet with her to their house for parties and gatherings and occasionally would not know exactly whereabouts in the house JonBenet was. She even stated in one of her interviews that she couldn't remember whether JonBenet left the party on the 25th to join a group of carollers strolling around the neighbourhood. It is not unknown for mothers to turn a blind eye to the molestation of the daughters. I don't see that anyone has any grounds for considering Patsy to have been incapable of behaving like this, especially when there is so much evidence around to say that she did. As for the night of the 25th, I think Patsy was tricked into giving the pedophiles access on the pretext that they were there for some innocent purpose, such as taking a few photographs of JonBenet with Santa on that special night.
3. Pedophiles don't go around leaving evidence of their activities, of course there is not going to be obvious evidence of FW being involved in such a thing. For decades there was no evidence of priests being involved in such things either. Pedophiles are very clever at keeping their activities hidden from an unsuspecting public, just as are other types of criminals. They very often have links with members of the police force, it is very useful when they run into a spot of trouble.

 

[aussiesheila]

First of all, no one who knows anything about me will say I'm a media puppet! But on to business:

"I honestly believe anything would set Patsy off if it wasn't in her control. As long as the agenda suits her...she is OK but when it doesn't....expect fireworks."

I've known people like that, concerned person. Plenty.

aussiesheila, I have to admit, you make a damn fine effort. But for now, when two or more hypotheses seek to explain the same evidence, the simplest one is to be preferred.

But there isn't another hypothesis that explains all these pieces of evidence SuperDave.

 

[aussiesheila]

Right, because the wrist ties were so loose they slipped right off.

Wrong, the wrist ties were not so loose they slipped right off. John struggled to untie one of the knots but seems only to have been able to loosen it enabling him to enlarge the loop around the left wrist sufficiently to pull it off over her hand. The coroner had to untie one of the knots on the loop around the right wrist to enlarge that loop and slip it over her hand.

 

[aussiesheila]

Another thing John is lying about. He said they were tied so tightly he could not remove them.

IMO he was not lying. You cannot say for sure that he was, Solace.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

But there isn't another hypothesis that explains all these pieces of evidence SuperDave.

Yeah, there is - it's called RDI.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

1. The cord was tied over the top of the sleeves of her shirt so the material would have provided some protection. Also the loops around the wrist were larger than the wrist circumference, but not large enough to slip over her hands. If there was any weight placed on her arms the tougher skin on the edges of her hands would have taken most of it and I think any marks would be minimal.

If she was being jabbed repeatedly by a stun gun, she'd be straining against wrist restraints holding her hands above her head so hard there's no way even the tough pad of the palm would stop the bruising - she might even collapse and have her entire weight suspended by her wrists. Her palm pads aren't that tough anyway, she was only six. With the rope outside of her sleeve, she could easily slip her hand through the sleeve and be free, and if the rope was outside the sleeve with her hands tied above her head, I would expect to see some fabric burn on her wrists. There's no way she wouldn't be pulling.

There's physically NO evidence that her hands were restrained while she was alive at all, other than the laughably loose cord. As for John Ramsey saying he loosened them - he's a liar. How long did he spend trying to loosen them? Didn't he see her, call out, rip off the tape, and then run upstairs with her? How could he even see the knots to loosen them in that dark room? And Coroner Meyer didn't untie the knots - he cut the cord and removed it to preserve the knots which were evidence.

Not to mention it's going to be incredibly hard to molest a girl who is standing. Her legs are in the way. This entire theory makes no sense.

2. I do not say ever that Patsy knowingly and willingly allowing anyone, let alone a group of pedophiles, sexually abuse JonBenet. She let JonBenet be minded by her grandfather and friends of hers, she let JonBenet go to their house and play with their daughter, she took JonBenet with her to their house for parties and gatherings and occasionally would not know exactly whereabouts in the house JonBenet was. She even stated in one of her interviews that she couldn't remember whether JonBenet left the party on the 25th to join a group of carollers strolling around the neighbourhood. It is not unknown for mothers to turn a blind eye to the molestation of the daughters. I don't see that anyone has any grounds for considering Patsy to have been incapable of behaving like this, especially when there is so much evidence around to say that she did. As for the night of the 25th, I think Patsy was tricked into giving the pedophiles access on the pretext that they were there for some innocent purpose, such as taking a few photographs of JonBenet with Santa on that special night.

I think you did say once that you thought Patsy Ramsey would and was willingly, knowingly allowing pedos access to her daughter.

What evidence do you have that Patsy Ramsey would even allow anyone in her house after ten pm on Christmas night when a trip to Michigan is planned for very early the next morning? Patsy already had portfolios of photos of JonBenet from professional studios - she's not going to lower herself to waiting up til late Christmas night to let in some group of people who want pictures of her kid with Santa.

I agree she sounds like a somewhat negligent mother, but that doesn't mean she was letting people in to molest her daughter very late at night. Don't you think she'd wonder about a group of people trooping in, especially if one of them was someone completely unknown to her (your theory's killer)? Don't you think she'd want to be there while her child is being photographed really late on Christmas night, if she even allowed that at all?

And again, there is NO evidence whatsoever that FW was a pedophile or was associated with any pedophile rings. Not JE either -and you never answered that question - why would JE cover for FW or anyone else in a pedophile ring?

3. Pedophiles don't go around leaving evidence of their activities, of course there is not going to be obvious evidence of FW being involved in such a thing. For decades there was no evidence of priests being involved in such things either. Pedophiles are very clever at keeping their activities hidden from an unsuspecting public, just as are other types of criminals. They very often have links with members of the police force, it is very useful when they run into a spot of trouble.

If you don't have any solid proof that FW or police were involved in helping a pedophile ring operate in Boulder, then you need to rethink your theory. Comparing a ring of pedos in Boulder with police covering for them is nowhere near the same as a rogue priest in a church molesting kids on his own. Yes, it happens, but there's no comparison between the two other than the act of secretive sexual abuse.

 

[Solace]

If she was being jabbed repeatedly by a stun gun, she'd be straining against wrist restraints holding her hands above her head so hard there's no way even the tough pad of the palm would stop the bruising - she might even collapse and have her entire weight suspended by her wrists. Her palm pads aren't that tough anyway, she was only six. With the rope outside of her sleeve, she could easily slip her hand through the sleeve and be free, and if the rope was outside the sleeve with her hands tied above her head, I would expect to see some fabric burn on her wrists. There's no way she wouldn't be pulling.

There's physically NO evidence that her hands were restrained while she was alive at all, other than the laughably loose cord. As for John Ramsey saying he loosened them - he's a liar. How long did he spend trying to loosen them? Didn't he see her, call out, rip off the tape, and then run upstairs with her? How could he even see the knots to loosen them in that dark room? And Coroner Meyer didn't untie the knots - he cut the cord and removed it to preserve the knots which were evidence.

Not to mention it's going to be incredibly hard to molest a girl who is standing. Her legs are in the way. This entire theory makes no sense.



I think you did say once that you thought Patsy Ramsey would and was willingly, knowingly allowing pedos access to her daughter.

What evidence do you have that Patsy Ramsey would even allow anyone in her house after ten pm on Christmas night when a trip to Michigan is planned for very early the next morning? Patsy already had portfolios of photos of JonBenet from professional studios - she's not going to lower herself to waiting up til late Christmas night to let in some group of people who want pictures of her kid with Santa.

I agree she sounds like a somewhat negligent mother, but that doesn't mean she was letting people in to molest her daughter very late at night. Don't you think she'd wonder about a group of people trooping in, especially if one of them was someone completely unknown to her (your theory's killer)? Don't you think she'd want to be there while her child is being photographed really late on Christmas night, if she even allowed that at all?

And again, there is NO evidence whatsoever that FW was a pedophile or was associated with any pedophile rings. Not JE either -and you never answered that question - why would JE cover for FW or anyone else in a pedophile ring?


If you don't have any solid proof that FW or police were involved in helping a pedophile ring operate in Boulder, then you need to rethink your theory. Comparing a ring of pedos in Boulder with police covering for them is nowhere near the same as a rogue priest in a church molesting kids on his own. Yes, it happens, but there's no comparison between the two other than the act of secretive sexual abuse.

John and Patsy are going to let a man dressed as Santa Claus and his pack of pedos in the house at 10:00 on Christmas evening to photograph JonBenet and while they are photographing her, she leaves them alone long enough to tie a garotte around JB's neck and have their way with her sexually. Then Patsy comes back in to see how the photo shoot is going and what, oh no, you guys are not photographers at all, you're pedofiles. Well I can't let this get out. John and I will just have to cover it up. The Twilight Zone was on for 24 hours yesterday and it is continuing on this thread. With all due and total respect, this line of thinking is a complete waste of time.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

But there isn't another hypothesis that explains all these pieces of evidence SuperDave.

I don't agree with your theory, but at least it has good sequencing.

BTW, how does your hypothesis explain the fibers from the ligature that was found in JBR's bedroom?

 

[BBB167893]

"BTW, how does your hypothesis explain the fibers from the ligature that was found in JBR's bedroom?"

Well, in my case, that's easy. After striking her, the killer began the cover-up in her bed. They might have even planned for her to be found there first.

"But there isn't another hypothesis that explains all these pieces of evidence SuperDave."

But that's just it, aussiesheila. I have yet to find a case where everything clicked together kosher as Hollywood. Even the OJ case wasn't airtight.

"There's physically NO evidence that her hands were restrained while she was alive at all, other than the laughably loose cord. As for John Ramsey saying he loosened them - he's a liar."

That's pretty much right.

 

[rashomon]

2-5 hours.

If she ate the pineapple when she came home, then her parents lied about her being asleep.

If she ate the pineapple just before the left for the Whites at 4.30pm, then she died shortly after arriving home.

As Lou Smit says - the pineapple is the "bugaboo".

But wasn't the cracked crab JB had eaten at the Whites' party already digested further than the pineapple? That way she could not have eaten the pineapple before going to the Whites'.