Leslie Van Houten up for parole again

[LinasK]

I seriously think the worry is for nothing. She's going nowhere.

And yet, since the parole board announcement, a surprising number of WS posters on this thread suddenly think she should be released. A bad tide may be turning where "Life" doesn't mean Life.

 

[LinasK]

Governor Brown's office say's that's not the case.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/1400-lifers-released-from-california-prisons-in-last-3-years/

My local PD chief would beg to differ with you. The crime rate in my city-burglaries, home invasion robberies, car thefts, and mail theft has skyrocketed in the last year and a half, and it's not only because of the extension of BART, although it is primarily gang members from out of town. They attribute it to two recent laws: in 2011, AB109 known as "realignment" authorized many criminals being transferred to county jails to relieve overcrowding and they were subsequently given early release, when they would have otherwise been still locked up. Also, in 2014, Prop. 47 many felonies such as gun thefts got reduced to misdemeanors.

 

[Madeleine74]

And yet, since the parole board announcement, a surprising number of WS posters on this thread suddenly think she should be released. A bad tide may be turning where "Life" doesn't mean Life.

WS posters, despite possible beliefs to the contrary, do not hold sway over matters of law. (Nor are they secret agents working for the FBI, though some may be in denial about that. ;-) )

The sentence was "Life with the possibility of parole." That's what it got changed to in 1972. The parole board could find no more legal reasons at *their* level to keep denying a recommendation. However, that doesn't mean levels above them including the governor won't. Yes, there are people who do believe that after many decades in prison, someone may no longer be a danger to society. And, as we know, there are people who are able to forgive a crime, even one as horrendous as this one. That's their choice of course, but they don't get to make the decision in this or other cases. LWOP is a clear sentence and it means just that. LWPOP means that a felon can be considered by a parole board at whatever minimum amount of time according to the law. Again, this is one of those "time to change the laws" things so that no one who commits or assists in the commission of multiple murders can ever be considered for parole. And consideration does not mean someone will get out, it just means they can proceed to the next hurdle.

 

[LinasK]

WS posters, despite possible beliefs to the contrary, do not hold sway over matters of law. (Nor are they secret agents working for the FBI, though some may be in denial about that. ;-) )

The sentence was "Life with the possibility of parole." That's what it got changed to in 1972. The parole board could find no more legal reasons at *their* level to keep denying a recommendation. However, that doesn't mean levels above them including the governor won't. Yes, there are people who do believe that after many decades in prison, someone may no longer be a danger to society. And, as we know, there are people who are able to forgive a crime, even one as horrendous as this one. That's their choice of course, but they don't get to make the decision in this or other cases. LWOP is a clear sentence and it means just that. LWPOP means that a felon can be considered by a parole board at whatever minimum amount of time according to the law. Again, this is one of those "time to change the laws" things so that no one who commits or assists in the commission of multiple murders can ever be considered for parole. And consideration does not mean someone will get out, it just means they can proceed to the next hurdle.

Never said they were. I actually know an FBI agent in real life on a social level.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

My local PD chief would beg to differ with you. The crime rate in my city-burglaries, home invasion robberies, car thefts, and mail theft has skyrocketed in the last year and a half, and it's not only because of the extension of BART, although it is primarily gang members from out of town. They attribute it to two recent laws: in 2011, AB109 known as "realignment" authorized many criminals being transferred to county jails to relieve overcrowding and they were subsequently given early release, when they would have otherwise been still locked up. Also, in 2014, Prop. 47 many felonies such as gun thefts got reduced to misdemeanors.

What makes you think that I agree with Governor Brown. His office is saying that the release of all of those "lifers" has nothing to do with prison overcrowding. I think your post should be directed at Governor Brown and not me.

 

[LinasK]

What makes you think that I agree with Governor Brown. His office is saying that the release of all of those "lifers" has nothing to do with prison overcrowding. I think your post should be directed at Governor Brown and not me.

Okay, I'll believe you. You just seemed to be taking a Devil's Advocate stance.eace:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Okay, I'll believe you. You just seemed to be taking a Devil's Advocate stance.eace:

I posted that link so everyone could see what Governor Brown feels about releasing "lifer" convicts. In my opinion he is okay in releasing the majority of them and on others,for political reasons, he overrules the parole board blocking their release.

If he is truly concerned about public safety and justice for victims, he would be trying harder to keep all of these "lifers" locked up. JMO

Brown has allowed 82 percent of the 1,590 paroles granted by the board.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/1400-lifers-released-from-california-prisons-in-last-3-years/

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Sister of Sharon Tate Calls Leslie Van Houten a 'Monster'

Tate, 63, was present at the five-hour hearing last week in Chino, California, that led to the recommendation that Van Houten, 66, be eligible for parole.

“They are still sociopathic individuals and capable of great brutality,” Tate said of Van Houten and other members of the Manson cult. “The heinous crimes that were committed in the past, in 1969, will repeat themselves again. I am quite sure.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sister-sharon-tate-calls-leslie-van-houten-monster/story?id=38477656

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Should Manson follower Leslie Van Houten be paroled? Question of the Week

Many Californians think older prisoners, long past the usual age for criminal acts, should be released to save taxpayers the high cost of keeping them in prison and tending to their medical needs. Is that a good reason to release her?

http://www.dailynews.com/opinion/20...ie-van-houten-be-paroled-question-of-the-week

 

[Madeleine74]

Never said they were. I actually know an FBI agent in real life on a social level.

Oh I wasn't directing that at you. I was making a tongue-in-cheek comment that some people on the Interwebs believe they are a secret agent of the FBI (I'm not referring to anyone here, I promise).

 

[KaaBoom]

And yet, since the parole board announcement, a surprising number of WS posters on this thread suddenly think she should be released. A bad tide may be turning where "Life" doesn't mean Life.

A life sentence has never meant “life”, ever. Life without the possibility of parole means “life”.

I’m one of those who supports her release. It’s a good decision. Elderly prisoners cost twice as much money as others, to keep locked up. This woman is no longer a serious threat to society. It doesn’t make economic sense to keep her locked up. Releasing her frees up space for another prisoner who is actually a danger to society.

Why Are We Spending So Much To Lock Up Elderly Prisoners Who Pose Little Threat?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

A life sentence has never meant “life”, ever. Life without the possibility of parole means “life”.

I’m one of those who supports her release. It’s a good decision. Elderly prisoners cost twice as much money as others, to keep locked up. This woman is no longer a serious threat to society. It doesn’t make economic sense to keep her locked up. Releasing her frees up space for another prisoner who is actually a danger to society.

Why Are We Spending So Much To Lock Up Elderly Prisoners Who Pose Little Threat?

If we look at the cost of incarcerating elderly prisoners vs younger prisoners I would agree that the older prisoners would have higher health care costs.

But what about justice for the victims? Shouldn't that count for something? Or is it mainly about prisoner rights?

If the criminal justice system is based mainly on economic costs to taxpayers vs justice, it would appear that to not incarcerate anyone would save the most money.

The most important question is whether Leslie Van Houten is a danger to others if she is released from prison. I don't know the answer to that question. Is it possible that she could harm others or influence someone else to harm someone if released?

JMO

 

[LinasK]

In some cases the perp isn't arrested until they are elderly- justice denied as with the Nazi guards and with the ex-priest killer of Irene Garza. Should they get to escape prosecution just because they've gotten to live their lives and are now only being prosecuted when they are elderly( because of the housing costs)??? I think NOT!!!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

In some cases the perp isn't arrested until they are elderly- justice denied as with the Nazi guards and with the ex-priest killer of Irene Garza. Should they get to escape prosecution jut because they've gotten to live their lives and are now only being prosecuted when they are elderly( because of the housing costs)??? I think NOT!!!

Some would argue that Leslie was very young when she killed Rosemary, she has served decades for her crime and since she is old now she is not a danger to anyone.

I'm not sure that she isn't a danger to anyone or that she has served enough time for her crime. Debra Tate feels that she's still a danger to others. That should count for something right?

Will Governor Brown take the feelings of the Tate and LaBianca family's into consideration when making his decision?

 

[Madeleine74]

I think Leslie might be the one in danger if she's released. There are a LOT of people who want her dead and are angry she wasn't executed by the State of Calif.

She'll never be free. Even if she was paroled (which I don't believe she will be), she'd be closely monitored and supervised, probably for years. It's not like she'd just be let loose to run amok. There are stringent guidelines for parolees. But again, I don't think she'll be let out anytime soon, if ever. The notoriety of the crimes, the lore, the shock value, the heinousness will all help ensure that everyone involved will stay put. And actually, Leslie would be the only one who would have even the slightest chance at parole and her chance is very slim.

 

[LinasK]

I think Leslie might be the one in danger if she's released. There are a LOT of people who want her dead and are angry she wasn't executed by the State of Calif.

She'll never be free. Even if she was paroled (which I don't believe she will be), she'd be closely monitored and supervised, probably for years. It's not like she'd just be let loose to run amok. There are stringent guidelines for parolees. But again, I don't think she'll be let out anytime soon, if ever. The notoriety of the crimes, the lore, the shock value, the heinousness will all help ensure that everyone involved will stay put. And actually, Leslie would be the only one who would have even the slightest chance at parole and her chance is very slim.

What makes Leslie so special and so much better than Patricia Krenwinkle and Charlie??? Is it that she bettered herself (at taxpayer expense) and got an education? Susan Atkins died in prison and so should she!

 

[Madeleine74]

Leslie participated in 1 murder. Watson murdered at least 7 people that we know about and likely more. Krenwinkle at least 4, plus she was at both crime scenes. Atkins was involved with at least 4 murders. Charlie was involved in at least 3 killings and likely many more plus he was the instigator/mastermind of the Tate/LaBianca killings. It's not that LVH's 'better,' it's that of all of the the ones you mentioned, she was involved in fewer deaths, and whatever else they look at in making determinations on who might be a good candidate for parole, they don't perceive her to be a risk to society.

They let friggin' Clem Grogan out on parole in 1985 and he killed at least 1 that we know of, and probably more.

You'd really need to ask the parole board, none of us can possibly know what all they were thinking. That said, again, I don't believe she'll ever be released. I'll be *shocked* if she ever gets out.

 

[KaaBoom]

If we look at the cost of incarcerating elderly prisoners vs younger prisoners I would agree that the older prisoners would have higher health care costs.

But what about justice for the victims? Shouldn't that count for something? Or is it mainly about prisoner rights?

She has already been locked up for almost half a century. Thats should be adequate justice for the victim. Nothing is going to bring the victim back to life.

But that’s not my main concern anyway. My concern as a tax payer is keeping society safe. Get her out of there, and use the space for somebody who is actually a threat to society.

 

[LinasK]

To let someone out with the heinouness of Rosemary LaBianca's murder and the cold, unremorseful attitude of Leslie Van Houten would be to set a very dangerous message and precedent to future criminals. She asked to go along, she publically admitted to actively participating. They freely and laughingly terrorized L.A. And there's the wishes of the survivor families. This is someone who was sentenced to Death! Leslie could have been executed by now, it makes no sense to release her.:notgood:

 

[LinasK]

Leslie participated in 1 murder. Watson murdered at least 7 people that we know about and likely more. Krenwinkle at least 4, plus she was at both crime scenes. Atkins was involved with at least 4 murders. Charlie was involved in at least 3 killings and likely many more plus he was the instigator/mastermind of the Tate/LaBianca killings. It's not that LVH's 'better,' it's that of all of the the ones you mentioned, she was involved in fewer deaths, and whatever else they look at in making determinations on who might be a good candidate for parole, they don't perceive her to be a risk to society.

They let friggin' Clem Grogan out on parole in 1985 and he killed at least 1 that we know of, and probably more.

You'd really need to ask the parole board, none of us can possibly know what all they were thinking. That said, again, I don't believe she'll ever be released. I'll be *shocked* if she ever gets out.

Depending on the value you place on life, one murder is enough. Look at Jodi Arias. She was only one juror away from the Death Penalty.