Let me hear from you if you think the R's are innocent

[Kaly]

My amature gut feeling is that it was someone who was familiar with the family and the house, and perhaps someone who knew JBR. I also think it was a woman who was trying to make it look like the perp was a man. I lean toward a theory of another pagent mom who was jealous of JBR's and/or Patsy and/or who hated Patsy, and wanted to either eliminate her own daughter's competition, or get even with Patsy on some other level.

The ransome note bothers me, because I really think it was written by a woman. Men do not go into that much detail. I do not believe it was Patsy that wrote the note.

Excellent theories, Pepper. I always thought it was related to the pageants, too, as it would be so easy for some jealous person or pedophile to get into them and follow JonBenet's progression in them. But a female murderer...wow, that's a good one! I thought the ransom note handwriting looked very female, too, if the one shown in the book A Mother Gone Bad is the correct copy.

 

[Tricia]

Guys, this is a great thread. Thank you. Please keep it up.

As to the misconception of the meaning of the thread, my apologies.

I do welcome anyone and everyone who wants to post to add their point of view. If you have something that can help someone clear up a misconception then by all means post it. I would appreciate it if you could provide back up, as in newspaper articles or books, when disputing a post. As always, Be Nice

I will try and get back to cover the DNA evidence and the BIG misconception about it. It is a red herring in this case. I can show you exactly why. However, I have 19 million screaming kids ( ok maybe not that many) running around my brother house. It's a bit distracting.

Thanks all. I appreciate your honesty on this thread. I am not going try and change your mind. Only you can do that. My hope is to clear up the perceptions the Ramseys have so brilliantly created.

Tricia

 

[Tricia]

You know what? I'm afraid sometimes to voice my opinion regarding this topic because of the fear of being bashed over the head....

Ramsey's are not in jail.... hundreds if not over a thousand LE have looked at the evidence..... NO ONE CAN BE 10000% CERTAIN.... even on WS here, that they are guilty. Geesh.

Blueclouds, if someone bashes you for your opinion let me know. I'll send JBRMod2 after them LOL.

It's a passionate subject. No doubt.

I have made it clear about my belief in Ramsey guilt. However, I don't want anyone to feel afraid to post an opposing view.

Tricia.

PS. There is more evidence pointing to Patsy's involvement than there is in the Peterson case.

 

[Voice of Reason]

I will try and get back to cover the DNA evidence and the BIG misconception about it. It is a red herring in this case. I can show you exactly why. However, I have 19 million screaming kids ( ok maybe not that many) running around my brother house. It's a bit distracting.

Tricia

good luck with the kids, but please come back soon. you really set me up wanting to hear more...

 

[Pepper]

Excellent theories, Pepper. I always thought it was related to the pageants, too, as it would be so easy for some jealous person or pedophile to get into them and follow JonBenet's progression in them. But a female murderer...wow, that's a good one! I thought the ransom note handwriting looked very female, too, if the one shown in the book A Mother Gone Bad is the correct copy.

This murderer may very well have committed the "perfect" murder. That, combined with the Barney Fife mentality of the Boulder PD means that this case is so cold it probably will never be solved.

I know the Ramseys lawyered up early, and some have held that against them suggesting that only guilty people would get a lawyer so soon. That, however, is not enough to convict, let alone indict.

Let's just look at the recent case of Jessica Lunsford. Many, including me, were ready to say that the family must have had something to do with her disappearance. Look how we were proven wrong. Had that PD been careless and not followed up on the sex offenders in the area, her murder may also have been unsolved, with nearly everyone suspecting the father and grandparents.

I have believed for the past couple of years that this crime was committed by a woman intent on making it look like a man did it. My reasons for this belief are,
1. The ransom note - appears to be written by a woman. Way too long and detailed for a man to have written it. It just "smells" like a woman to me. <very unscientific, I know! >
The details of the note, including the odd amount seems like a message to the Ramseys, rather than an actual demand for money. Like, "I know what you just got (bonus money) and I'm getting even."
2. The sexual overtones. As I recall, it didn't appear to be rape, but more like penetration with an object or a finger. Again this is consistent with a woman wanting to implicate a man.
3. A woman, being a smaller size and lighter on her feet than a man, might have been able gain entry and move around in the house without being heard.
4. JonBenet might not have been afraid if awakened by a woman in the middle of the night, as compared to a man, especially if the woman was someone she knew.
5. Motive. I don't think there was ever a motive for ransom or money. I think the motive was NOT sexual. Likewise I don't believe there is any sort of motive for the Ramseys to have been involved. It just doesn't make sense to me for the reasons I stated in my previous post. Therefore, I believe the motive was jealousy. Those most likely to commit a crime based on jealousy are women.

I think if there are any investigators left on this case, they should look closely at any women that were involved with Patsy, possibly within the pagents - but outside as well. Especially any women that might seem a bit bent with personality or psychological problems in the past.

 

[Tricia]

good luck with the kids, but please come back soon. you really set me up wanting to hear more...

Sorry guys, been running around like a crazed bunny today. :dance:

For now, please read this link about the Ramsey DNA scam. I will edit it down to a much simpler and shorter version later.

http://www.supportramseytruth.com/index2.htm#dna

Please remember one thing. This DNA IS NOT FLESH. It's not blood. It is not even a complete straned of DNA. It is a degraded cell of some sort of substance ( some say spit from a sneeze) containing less than one FULL strand of DNA.

I would suggest that if you and I submitted our nails and underclothes for DNA testing we would hav all kinds of foreign DNA. We have it all over our bodies.

How did the killer leave ONLY an old and degraded, less than a full strand of DNA ONLY?

No one can date it. No one can tie this old piece of micropscopic degraded sample to the "killer" because it NEVER CAME FROM THE KILLER.

Ok, sorry. Meant to just post the link. I will step off my soapbox now

Tricia

http://www.supportramseytruth.com/index2.htm#dna

Thanks all.

 

[Tricia]

I rarely read this forum, and have not read all the books nor have I followed every aspect of this case, but I don't think the Ramseys killed her, although I had a different opinion in the beginning.

Pepper, I have an extra Steve Thomas book. He was one of the lead detectives in the case who quit because of the outrages things going on in the case. Please PM if you would like a copy.

That goes for anyone. If you would like a copy of Thomas' book let me know.

www.forstevethomas.com

 

[Pepper]

I agree with what the article says, but this does not mean anything EXCEPT that this DNA is worthless as proof of anything. It certainly doesn't mean that the Ramseys are guilty of anything having to do with JBR's murder or cover-up.

I'm still believing that the Ramseys are guilty of nothing except the suffering they've endured over the loss of their daughter and the suspicions of the public.

I'm still believing that this was committed by a woman and someone other than PR.

I've always had the suspicion that when it comes to crimes of passion, we women can be just as deadly as men. It's just that women are more detail-oriented than men, therefore more careful about leaving evidence behind, and therefore less likely to get caught.

 

[sissi]

I hate it when "scientists" ask not to have their names mentioned. How proud are they of their work?
Putting this aside, I can see how some may find this information very compelling, the fact that I do not ,of course, is my choice.
Sure it can be anyone's dna, perhaps even the asian garment factory worker's,however we have a dead child, who we realize underwent a nasty molestation. We KNOW someone had her panties down, and we know this dna is mixed with the child's blood. We can assume a family member molested her, cleaned up the body so well as to leave only this garment factory worker's dna behind, both under her nails and in her panties, or we can make a hypothesis that foreign dna found in the panties and under the nails of a murdered child in most cases would be the dna of the murderer. I choose the latter based on what I have read, and my understanding both of the crime and the facts as I see them.

 

[bensmom98]

For now, please read this link about the Ramsey DNA scam. I will edit it down to a much simpler and shorter version later.

http://www.supportramseytruth.com/index2.htm#dna

So, was there or was there not DNA under her fingernails that matched that found in her panties? I was always under the impression that there was a matching sample found, but there is no mention of it in this link. Does anyone have any evidence to support or refute this?

Thanks

 

[Pepper]

Pepper, I have an extra Steve Thomas book. He was one of the lead detectives in the case who quit because of the outrages things going on in the case. Please PM if you would like a copy.

That goes for anyone. If you would like a copy of Thomas' book let me know.

www.forstevethomas.com

Hey Tricia, I'd love to read it!

 

[KatherineQ]

Tricia, why do you believe Steve Thomas? Do you have personal knowledge of him, that makes him credible to you?

 

[BlueCrab]

bensmom98,

It was Lou Smit who confirmed the foreign DNA under the fingernails and in the panties were from the same donor.


KatherineQ,

Steve Thomas did his best and gained a lot of followers. But unfortunately he couldn't resist wildly chasing his pet PDI theory instead of following all of the evidence. It was his downfall. The DA's office knows the truth and told Steve Thomas early-on the case was unprosecutable, but Thomas was unable to read between the lines and failed to take the hint. It cost him his job. IMO Thomas was fired, but allowed to resign in dignity.

Thomas' zealousness crossed the line in his presentation to the D.A., the press and the invited VIPs on June 1 and 2, 1998 when he convoluted the handwriting analyses from the CBI's six handwriting examiners and implied that Patsy wrote the ransom note. The truth of the matter was that the CBI's examiners had all but eliminated Patsy as the writer. In effect, Thomas had lied.

Why is the DA's office so sure the case is unprosecutable? IMO it was unprosecutable because Hunter knew the truth and knew that under Colorado law no one under 10 years of age can be prosecuted. But Hunter is prevented from acknowledging this information because it would point directly to the perpetrator, in violation of the Colorado Children's Code protecting the identity of children. Steve Thomas didn't take the hint from Alex Hunter when Hunter told Thomas the case was not prosecutable.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

I agree with what the article says, but this does not mean anything EXCEPT that this DNA is worthless as proof of anything. It certainly doesn't mean that the Ramseys are guilty of anything having to do with JBR's murder or cover-up.

I'm still believing that the Ramseys are guilty of nothing except the suffering they've endured over the loss of their daughter and the suspicions of the public.

I'm still believing that this was committed by a woman and someone other than PR.

I've always had the suspicion that when it comes to crimes of passion, we women can be just as deadly as men. It's just that women are more detail-oriented than men, therefore more careful about leaving evidence behind, and therefore less likely to get caught.

Pepper I tend to agree with you, the note does seem to be written by a woman, and it wasn't Patsy Ramsey.
The obsession with crime that appears within that note, however, seems ..or just rings to me..as male.
Maybe we have a murderous couple? Or we have a mom that covers for her young adult son? A wife who covered for her hubby? A woman who tried her best to get the attention away from the "real" perp, and succeeded? Or maybe not, perhaps we have a slightly effeminate sorta' guy?

 

[Pepper]

Good points sissi! Any of the things you mention are possibilities.

 

[UKGuy]

Whatever you think about the Pineapple, Barbie Gown, size-12 Underwear, and whether her hymen was normal prior to her death, these will determine how and who you think killed her.

All these items of evidence are not speculative they can be produced and decided upon.

The Barbie Gown may be a licensed reproduction sold as sleeping attire for preteen girls.

The Pineapple is there in her body or it is not.

The size-12 underwear was placed on her after she arrived home from the Whites or after she was wiped down. Fiber analysis will decide this.

Her hymen was relatively complete for her age prior to her death, autopsy evidence can determine this.

So are the above statements consistent with the Ramsays being innocent, or as I think , do they suggest a more controversial conclusion?

 

[sissi]

First, read what John has to say about the barbie gown in his interview. Then get back to me ,if ya would, to discuss this "new and most interesting" information.

 

[UKGuy]

First, read what John has to say about the barbie gown in his interview. Then get back to me ,if ya would, to discuss this "new and most interesting" information.

sissi,

Too many interviews to sift through, but from memory is this the one where John says he does not think this is JonBenet's gown or similar?

from the deep:

Well Patsy does not say it is not Jonbenet's or that it is a dolls gown. But she does admit to missing those pajamas under her pillow, and deciding not for bed-wetting reasons, but for utility to dressing Jonbenet in those longjohns.
http://www.acandyrose.com/06251998patsyinterview-pg8.gif
http://www.acandyrose.com/06251998patsyinterview-pg9.gif

and
1999-11-02 (--) Pam Paugh said Nedra bought Barbie nightgown (basement) at K-Mart (Ga)
http://www.acandyrose.com/timeline-transcripts1999.htm

also:
LaDonna Griego, a Thornton child beauty pageant organizer says JonBenets personality remains the thing she will remember. She said JonBenet often brought Barbie dolls to share with girls backstage.
"She was playful," Griego said. "She was always everyone's best friend."

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Sounds like some people need to read the book where Steve Thomas describes the incestuous relationship between the Ramseys attorneys and the District Attorney in Boulder.

Crime, corruption and cover-up..........yeah - that's something that I would woo-hoo over....... :doh:

Give me a Big BREAK!!!!! LOL

 

[RiverRat]

Give me a Big BREAK!!!!! LOL

Just how familar are you with the case?