LIfe as a fence sitter

[rashomon]

The problem with the clueless John theory is that he colluded with Patsy as early as the 911 call, by claiming Burke was asleep, when actually, Burke was out of bed and in distance of the phone. IMO he would have to know WHY he was giving a false version of events to police.

I too don't think John was clueless. For the fibers from his shirt found in the crotch area of JonBenet's size 12 undewear implicate him in the staging of the scene.
Also, I don't think Patsy would have been able to carry out all the staging alone. I believe the psychological strain would have been too much for her. Aside from that, in order to do all this, Patsy would have to be gone from the common bedroom for hours. Suppose John woke up, saw that Patsy was not in her bed and she did not return, wouldn't he have gotten up to look for her?
I believe John covered up for Patsy way before 10 am the next morning.

 

[coloradokares]

BOESP

That must mean Lou Smit's Intruder Theory is just as good too, since its also pure speculation.

The difference between your speculation and mine is that mine is based upon forensic evidence!


Where is Patsy's douching equipment?


.

You can bet that was well hidden till Patsy or Aunty Pam got it out of the house . And who would have thought something like that was unusual? There was an adult woman residing in the household. I would ever have dreamed it an item that needed to be cataloged or taken as physical evidence. Could have been hidden and discarded later. JMHO

 

[BOESP]

BOESP

That must mean Lou Smit's Intruder Theory is just as good too, since its also pure speculation.

The difference between your speculation and mine is that mine is based upon forensic evidence!


Where is Patsy's douching equipment?


.

UKGuy, if Lou Smit wants to come on this board and discuss his theory, fine. I'm working on mine, not Smit's. Frankly, I don't think Smit's theory is logical. I think he picked out bits and pieces of extraneous data that wasn't necessarily even tied to the crime then tried to use it to prove the Ramseys were innocent.

In reference to the possibility of a douching injury, I quite plainly started my part in the conversation by stating that I was thinking out loud on the board instead of just thinking to myself. Perhaps you didn't read that message.The only speculation in my theory is that a douche tool could have been used to injure JonBenet. Everything else I've said concerning the sequence of events and what happened is supported by the evidence as known to the public.

You seem to have a problem with Steve Thomas. That's a shame.

 

[BOESP]

The problem with the clueless John theory is that he colluded with Patsy as early as the 911 call, by claiming Burke was asleep, when actually, Burke was out of bed and in distance of the phone. IMO he would have to know WHY he was giving a false version of events to police.

Tober, evidence John was guilty of collaborating with Patsy about Burke wasn't suspected until April 1997 was it?

The wheels in John's mind could have started turning on December 26th during the time Arndt stated John was quiet and pensive, seemingly lost in thought. Next he could have started putting two and two together that day but wasn't sure or clear as to what was truly going on. He could have been suspicious about what happened on the 26th, but not truly being in collusion until April 1997.

 

[BOESP]

I too don't think John was clueless. For the fibers from his shirt found in the crotch area of JonBenet's size 12 undewear implicate him in the staging of the scene.
Also, I don't think Patsy would have been able to carry out all the staging alone. I believe the psychological strain would have been too much for her. Aside from that, in order to do all this, Patsy would have to be gone from the common bedroom for hours. Suppose John woke up, saw that Patsy was not in her bed and she did not return, wouldn't he have gotten up to look for her?
I believe John covered up for Patsy way before 10 am the next morning.

Rash those fibers are very incriminating as to John being involved with the staging. Do you think they indicate he was a participant in the crime or just the staging or both?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy, if Lou Smit wants to come on this board and discuss his theory fine. I'm working on mine, not Smit's. Frankly, I don't think Smit's theory is logical. I think he picked out bits and pieces of extraneous data that wasn't necessarily even tied to the crime then tried to use it to prove the Ramseys were innocent.

In reference to the possibility of a douching injury, I quite plainly started my part in the conversation by stating that I was thinking out loud on the board instead of just thinking to myself. Perhaps you didn't read that message.The only speculation in my theory is that a douche tool could have been used to injure JonBenet. Everything else I've said concerning the sequence of events and what happened is supported by the evidence as known to the public.

You seem to have a problem with Steve Thomas. That's a shame.

BOESP,

OK you are thinking out aloud. I do not have any problem with Steve Thomas, just his Toilet Rage theory, which I am certain, now there is more evidence available, he would probably discount?


.

 

[BOESP]

You can bet that was well hidden till Patsy or Aunty Pam got it out of the house . And who would have thought something like that was unusual? There was an adult woman residing in the household. I would ever have dreamed it an item that needed to be cataloged or taken as physical evidence. Could have been hidden and discarded later. JMHO

CK, again, we are thinking along the same lines. I've even speculated a douche kit could have been a part of what was kept in the bathroom drawers in John Andrew's bath, where we're told Patsy kept old chemo supplies. I want to emphasize for readers I am only speculating about this.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP

That must mean Lou Smit's Intruder Theory is just as good too, since its also pure speculation.

The difference between your speculation and mine is that mine is based upon forensic evidence!


Where is Patsy's douching equipment?




.

By the way, what is your theory? :waitasec:

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,

OK you are thinking out aloud. I do not have any problem with Steve Thomas, just his Toilet Rage theory, which I am certain, now there is more evidence available, he would probably discount?


.

Well, UKGuy, according to the evidence, he hasn't changed his mind one bit. You'll need to read several of his statments but visit www.forstevethomas.com and get that evidence straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[UKGuy]

By the way, what is your theory? :waitasec:

BOESP,

All three remaining residents in the Ramsey household conspired and colluded to fabricate a false legend of events for the night of JonBenet's death, this has continued to the present day.

My theory is JDI along with Patsy assisting him, and Burke maintaining his silence.

.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,

All three remaining residents in the Ramsey household conspired and colluded to fabricate a false legend of events for the night of JonBenet's death, this has continued to the present day.

My theory is JDI along with Patsy assisting him, and Burke maintaining his silence.

.

What evidence suggests John killed JonBenet? I will admit the inscription on Patsy's tomb rock is interesting.

 

[rashomon]

BOESP
That must mean Lou Smit's Intruder Theory is just as good too, since its also pure speculation.

Lou Smit's intruder theory completely disregards the forensic evidence, therefore it is not "just as good too". Smit's theory is a joke.

Where is Patsy's douching equipment?

And where was the remaining set of the too large size 12 Bloomies underwear? Did the police find them in their house search? No, they didn't, although these Bloomies had to have been there - I suppose you would agree on that. Why do you think the police didn't find them?

jmo

 

[Tober]

Tober, evidence John was guilty of collaborating with Patsy about Burke wasn't suspected until April 1997 was it?

The wheels in John's mind could have started turning on December 26th during the time Arndt stated John was quiet and pensive, seemingly lost in thought. Next he could have started putting two and two together that day but wasn't sure or clear as to what was truly going on. He could have been suspicious about what happened on the 26th, but not truly being in collusion until April 1997.

BOESP--Either John or Patsy or both sent Burke back to bed, obviously telling him to stay there until summoned. If telling him this was one's idea, then the other is fully aware because they were all together in distance of the phone during Patsy's call. The presentation of a false version of events begins at the 911 call, with all three Ramseys participating in the lie. John would have to know WHY they were sending Burke to bed, and WHY they were about to present a lie to police.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP--Either John or Patsy or both sent Burke back to bed, obviously telling him to stay there until summoned. If telling him this was one's idea, then the other is fully aware because they were all together in distance of the phone during Patsy's call. The presentation of a false version of events begins at the 911 call, with all three Ramseys participating in the lie. John would have to know WHY they were sending Burke to bed, and WHY they were about to present a lie to police.

I see where you are coming from on that.

I didn't see it so much as collusion as just a frantic father trying to figure out the note and what was happening and more or less telling Burke he didn't have time for Burke at the moment, i.e. "get out of my hair, kid, I'm busy."

 

[DeeDee249]

Let's face it, most of anything anyone (other than the Rs) say is theory- we weren't there.
But one theory is right. We just don't know for sure yet which one.
Yes, a douche used on a 6-year old COULD cause unjuries, but I have to tell you that I can't see a child standing still for that type of cleansing for long. Also, PR is said to have discussed or at least mentioned douching her daughter to friends. She probably didn't mention it to the pediatrician, as even in adult women, repeated douching can alter the chemical balance and cause infection. And JBR was brought many times to the doctor for vaginal infections. If he'd known of the douching, Dr. Boef should have told PR to stop, as it may have been contributing to her vaginal irritations. So there is conflicting reasoning about why there was a vaginal wound in the staging. If the purpose was to hide the douching, some people allegedly already knew about it.
Now about the splinter in the vagina....wasn't it also reported that "cellulose" was found in there? I would take "cellulose" to indicate a piece from the broken paintbrush rather than "birefringent" matter. I always inferred that as meaning something refractive, like silica (from talc or baby powder)- which is usually found on latex gloves. Weren't there latex gloves photographed in a bathroom drawer?
However- the paintbrush handle is described in the autopsy as having layers of paint and varnish on it. I suppose paint or varnish flecks could also be "birefringent".
Boy, if that missing piece of the paintbrush handle ever turns up...though for all we know, the coroner and LE could already know where it is. Funny we've never seen anyone ask about it in any of the interviews.

 

[Albert18]

I see where you are coming from on that.

I didn't see it so much as collusion as just a frantic father trying to figure out the note and what was happening and more or less telling Burke he didn't have time for Burke at the moment, i.e. "get out of my hair, kid, I'm busy."

This is exactly what I think happened.

This is also why I think John made the extremely incriminating mistake of trying to get the family out of town so soon after JonBenet was found. He wasn't running, he wanted time and space to figure out what just happened.

Didn't John tell the police the house had been all locked up that night?

 

[BOESP]

This is exactly what I think happened.

This is also why I think John made the extremely incriminating mistake of trying to get the family out of town so soon after JonBenet was found. He wasn't running, he wanted time and space to figure out what just happened.

Didn't John tell the police the house had been all locked up that night?

I believe PMPT and Thomas's book state he told one of the first officers on the scene that the doors were all locked. Of course, there was a variance and someone said the butler door to the outside was ajar that morning (I think it was John who said this later). After all was said and done, however, it was determined the doors were all locked but the alarm had not been turned on.

 

[Albert18]

I believe PMPT and Thomas's book state he told one of the first officers on the scene that the doors were all locked. Of course, there was a variance and someone said the butler door to the outside was ajar that morning (I think it was John who said this later). After all was said and done, however, it was determined the doors were all locked but the alarm had not been turned on.

This matches the theory that John becomes aware as the day goes on.

 

[JMO8778]

BOESP--Either John or Patsy or both sent Burke back to bed, obviously telling him to stay there until summoned. If telling him this was one's idea, then the other is fully aware because they were all together in distance of the phone during Patsy's call. The presentation of a false version of events begins at the 911 call, with all three Ramseys participating in the lie. John would have to know WHY they were sending Burke to bed, and WHY they were about to present a lie to police.

I agree,JR had already lost one daughter,if he truly didn't know what was going on,FORGET calling 911...I think he would have had both hands around Patsy's throat yelling "Where's JonBenet???!!! ..I KNOW YOU WROTE THAT NOTE!"
His further lies and behavior indicate he was not the anxious father of a KN'd daughter (or even one of whom suspected his wife being in on whatever was going on).He would have been flipping that house upside down and throwing things right and left looking for JB or for clues...and it sure wouldn't have taken him 7 hours to find her ! He would have found her within an hour or so,stopping only long enough to get some help (silently) and using the friends FOR help,IF he bothered to call them at all,out of fear of JB being 'beheaded'.
He didn't even warn LE that JB would be in danger if they were seen or heard talking to anyone.BIG red flag there.

 

[JMO8778]

Thomas probably suspected JR of being in on the coverup,but at the time,he didn't have any proof of it.I believe his version of events would be somewhat different now,given JR's fiber evidence,although it appears he still believes Patsy was the killer.
For one,I think Thomas probably (I think undoubtedly,actually) noticed the connection in the RN to JR's constant pointing the finger at Merrick and friends.He just didn't have any proof of it,and the physical evidence at the time all pointed to Patsy.
BTW,ppl aren't dead or completely unconcious when they're asleep...I think JR would have noticed if he'd been in bed and Patsy didn't ever come to bed that night.I don't think either of them ever made it to bed that night.And possibly JB as well didn't either.