Linguistics

[tapu]

Oh, my! "Amateur Psychopharmacologist" is a joke!

Kind of like "Amateur Surgeon" or "Amateur Airline Pilot." Things you really wouldn't want an amateur doing.

It also alludes to the idea of treating oneself with psych meds (hence, "practicing 20 years"). I often joke that I go to real doctors just for a second opinion--one other than my own!

I don't have any idea what pineapple and pharmacy have to do with each other.

--tapu, amateur psychopharmacologist, professional linguist and editor, to be clear

 

[MurriFlower]

Oh, my! "Amateur Psychopharmacologist" is a joke!

Kind of like "Amateur Surgeon" or "Amateur Airline Pilot." Things you really wouldn't want an amateur doing.

It also alludes to the idea of treating oneself with psych meds (hence, "practicing 20 years"). I often joke that I go to real doctors just for a second opinion--one other than my own!

I don't have any idea what pineapple and pharmacy have to do with each other.

--tapu, amateur psychopharmacologist, professional linguist and editor, to be clear

Oh good! Everyone here is an amateur something, although most take their qualifications seriously......

According to my research, GHB is masked by the taste of pineapple. It makes girls 'compliant' and is known as a 'date rape' drug, apparently is quite safe (unless taken with other drugs or alcohol) and is virtually undetectable within hours. Pedophiles use it to convince themselves the children really 'wanted it'. It's the only 'reason' I can think of her being fed pineapple.

 

[DeeDee249]

Oh good! Everyone here is an amateur something, although most take their qualifications seriously......

According to my research, GHB is masked by the taste of pineapple. It makes girls 'compliant' and is known as a 'date rape' drug, apparently is quite safe (unless taken with other drugs or alcohol) and is virtually undetectable within hours. Pedophiles use it to convince themselves the children really 'wanted it'. It's the only 'reason' I can think of her being fed pineapple.

Toxicology tests on JB, done at autopsy, were negative for all drugs and alcohol.

 

[MurriFlower]

Toxicology tests on JB, done at autopsy, were negative for all drugs and alcohol.

This is why I was hoping tapu really was a pharmacist, because I wonder if the time between when it would have been administered and when she was autopsied (approx 30 hrs) would have made it undetectable.

 

[DeeDee249]

This is why I was hoping tapu really was a pharmacist, because I wonder if the time between when it would have been administered and when she was autopsied (approx 30 hrs) would have made it undetectable.

I doubt it. She ate it about 2 hours before she died. Most drugs stay in the blood much longer, and at that point, if the pineapple was still in the body, the drugs would be too.

 

[MurriFlower]

I started thinking that the RN was really a 'script' that was going to be read out over the telephone, rather than intending to be left as it was on the stairs.

I've also started to wonder about 'how' it was written. Remember, if it wasn't meant to have been left behind, then there was no need to disguise the writing. So I was thinking, was it written on an uneven surface or something to account for the 'shaky' writing.

But I think I now have it!

The notepad and the sharpie pen were in the area of the house where the telephone was located and was really a message/scribble book. It makes sense to me that whoever wrote the RN did so by writing down what someone dictated to him/her over the telephone! It also just occurred to me that there is a word incorrectly heard. It should say "we respect your business but not the company it serves". I think this is a reference to Lockheed Martin. The letters at the bottom are actually S.B.T.L or S.&.T.L
Is this a bank or company or business?

 

[tapu]

Just ran through the latest; have these observations to make:

I wouldn't think a pharmacist could be much help with the ghb question. Just not what they do.

The reasoning here regarding pineapple and ghb is flawed: pineapple indicates the possibility of ghb; if there was ghb, it indicates that pineapple might have been used. This is a textbook example of circular reasoning.

I have to think about the RN and phone transmission. Very interesting idea. Very.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I started thinking that the RN was really a 'script' that was going to be read out over the telephone, rather than intending to be left as it was on the stairs.

I've also started to wonder about 'how' it was written. Remember, if it wasn't meant to have been left behind, then there was no need to disguise the writing. So I was thinking, was it written on an uneven surface or something to account for the 'shaky' writing.

But I think I now have it!

The notepad and the sharpie pen were in the area of the house where the telephone was located and was really a message/scribble book. It makes sense to me that whoever wrote the RN did so by writing down what someone dictated to him/her over the telephone! It also just occurred to me that there is a word incorrectly heard. It should say "we respect your business but not the company it serves". I think this is a reference to Lockheed Martin. The letters at the bottom are actually S.B.T.L or S.&.T.L
Is this a bank or company or business?

Read aloud over the phone during dication isn't ruled out, but neither is intentionally leaving it on the stairs. Both are possible. I believe there was one intruder next to the phone the entire time they were there. Watching the front stairs and listening for the rear stairs. This makes the ransom note more of a delay or tripwire, and this helps to explain the length of the note. Plus I think the author had some things to say.

The delay makes sense because otherwise there is no advantage to leaving a ton of personal handwriting for later comparison by the FBI, Treasury Dept., and so on. I really doubt the ransom note was simply discarded on the stairs.

 

[madeleine]

I started thinking that the RN was really a 'script' that was going to be read out over the telephone, rather than intending to be left as it was on the stairs.

I've also started to wonder about 'how' it was written. Remember, if it wasn't meant to have been left behind, then there was no need to disguise the writing. So I was thinking, was it written on an uneven surface or something to account for the 'shaky' writing.

But I think I now have it!

The notepad and the sharpie pen were in the area of the house where the telephone was located and was really a message/scribble book. It makes sense to me that whoever wrote the RN did so by writing down what someone dictated to him/her over the telephone! It also just occurred to me that there is a word incorrectly heard. It should say "we respect your business but not the company it serves". I think this is a reference to Lockheed Martin. The letters at the bottom are actually S.B.T.L or S.&.T.L
Is this a bank or company or business?

Yes Murri but this call would have shown up in the phone records,right?IIRC those phone records exist but are sealed.What does this mean,does the DA have access to them,does LE or just a judge?How is it?

 

[madeleine]

The location where the RN was found is really weird IMO.I mean,you would wanna make sure that it's found and read right?So why not on JB's bed?in front of their bedroom?etc
Why on THOSE stairs(big risk of not being found and read)
See,this is yet another thing that fits both IDI and RDI.
IDI-someone who knew which stairs PR uses every morning.
RDI-they lied about where they found it ,it was never there in the first place

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

My understanding is that the note was left on a step near the bottom of the spiral staircase. Anyone using those stairs would find them/hear them when they stepped on them. Anyone using the front stairs would be detected by a person sitting near the phone.

If there were three intruders, I don't believe it would be smart for them all to stay in the basement waiting for a wandering parent to barge in with a weapon or something.

 

[madeleine]

My understanding is that the note was left on a step near the bottom of the spiral staircase. Anyone using those stairs would find them/hear them when they stepped on them. Anyone using the front stairs would be detected by a person sitting near the phone.

If there were three intruders, I don't believe it would be smart for them all to stay in the basement waiting for a wandering parent to barge in with a weapon or something.

What were they doing in the basement anyway?If there were 3 of them I guess the "broken window as exit" scenario is kinda hard to swallow IMO.So why didn't they just take the child out?Why did they go to the basement?Why did they write the note in the house?
If there were 3 of them (and probably armed as well)why bother to kidnapp a child anyway,why not wake the R's up,put the gun to their heads and demand the money or deliver their message?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

What were they doing in the basement anyway?If there were 3 of them I guess the "broken window as exit" scenario is kinda hard to swallow IMO.So why didn't they just take the child out?Why did they go to the basement?Why did they write the note in the house?
If there were 3 of them (and probably armed as well)why bother to kidnapp a child anyway,why not wake the R's up,put the gun to their heads and demand the money or deliver their message?

How do you expect me to know the motive? It seems you're hurling a motive or two at me as if they're given when they're not.

Far as I'm concerned, the ransom note was a decoy and a delay tactic, the author never expected the R's to phone 911 right away, and kidnapping for ransom was never a motive.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes Murri but this call would have shown up in the phone records,right?IIRC those phone records exist but are sealed.What does this mean,does the DA have access to them,does LE or just a judge?How is it?

A judge sealed the phone records and prevented them from ever again being used to help solve this case because two reporters (I believe that it what they were) tried to access R personal info illegally. Anyone here recall exactly what occurred? I just don't save this stuff, and it's been a while since I read it.

 

[MurriFlower]

Yes Murri but this call would have shown up in the phone records,right?IIRC those phone records exist but are sealed.What does this mean,does the DA have access to them,does LE or just a judge?How is it?

Well, they didn't necessarily use the landline, hand held mobiles were invented then. It makes sense to me, because if they were going to stay in the house and make a phone call to the Rs they couldn't ring in and out at the same time.

 

[MurriFlower]

My understanding is that the note was left on a step near the bottom of the spiral staircase. Anyone using those stairs would find them/hear them when they stepped on them. Anyone using the front stairs would be detected by a person sitting near the phone.

If there were three intruders, I don't believe it would be smart for them all to stay in the basement waiting for a wandering parent to barge in with a weapon or something.

If you wanted to keep tabs on the parents up in their bedroom, the best way to do so was via the spiral staircase.

 

[tapu]

Two people, three people.... Is the general idea of the MODI (multiple outsiders did it? heh) that it's a child kind of thing? Are there specific people who are suspected of this?

 

[MurriFlower]

Two people, three people.... Is the general idea of the MODI (multiple outsiders did it? heh) that it's a child kind of thing? Are there specific people who are suspected of this?

I can't speak for others, but for me there seems to be a list of suspects as long as your arm.

When we find the motive, we might be able to narrow it down, assuming the person(s) is/are actually on that list.

I think the RN is the best clue to what motivated it (not, perhaps, to what actually occurred).

HOTYH feels it's primarily cultural (hated what they stood for).

I think it's primarily about the money (someone felt cheated).

RDI thinks it's designed to mislead (cover up).

Just to add to that, tapu, when you consider the linguistics of the RN, you should also consider the possibility that the 'experts' have been confused about it because:

1. It was not intended to be read by PR, but heard over the telephone by JR.
2. It was not written down by the author of the words.
3. There may have been more than one author of the words (two people/man & woman in tandem), thus the alteration in tone.
4. The handwriting could have been either male or female, but the reason for it appearing to be 'disguised' is that it was taken down hastily from oral dictation and also there could have been one or more words mis-heard (country/company).

 

[DeeDee249]

Cell phone records would also show calls made and received. Those records, as well as the landline phone, would have been invaluable in this case. That judge, whatever the reason was for that decision, did this case and JB a terrible injustice. The question of from whom, when and even IF the Rs made or received phone calls would be answered. If NO calls were made or received by the Rs in the middle of the night before the 911 call, then a lot of RDI theories are put to rest. If there WERE calls made, then a lot of RDI theories are given credence. Same goes for IDI. No calls goes a long way to indicating there was no "posse" of R associates helping to stage the crime.

 

[tapu]

I'm probably being dense on this point, but isn't it possible that any phone call was made on an unknown's cell phone? Then you wouldn't have the records because they wouldn't know who was on either end.

Or am I missing something about this? I feel like the only remedial student in here! The thing is, trying to find info in other threads here is impossible. So much going on and so many comments on it all!

Anyway, what about the phone scenario?