Live MSM coverage on baby Lisa 21 October 2011- including Nancy Grace

[belimom]

That is my problem with the sightings also. The person would make every effort to disguise what he was carrying, especially if it were a dead baby. As you said, he would make every effort to get out of the area as fast as possible and avoid being seen (identified), not be walking around some 3-1/2 hours after the "first sighting".

I'm not believing it.

MOO

Me either - I think if these people saw something, then it's possible it was a decoy. If someone had a 'decoy' in order for there to be fake 'sightings', then they would want it to be obvious that they were carrying a baby and for that baby to be seen. A baby is much more recognizable, especially at night, if just wearing a diaper rather than fully clothed/bundled-up, at which point the baby may go unnoticed altogether and completely blend in with the person carrying her.

That's why I'm thinking it's possible there was a doll. I know it sounds far-fetched, but then again this whole case is. And if you did commit a crime and needed the focus to be elsewhere, what better way than for someone to 'see a kidnapper with a baby'?

JMHO

 

[RT51]

Years ago I knew a teen mother who used to put vodka in her baby's bottle with orange juice to make her sleep. The baby drank it. She also blew shotguns of pot smoke in her face to make her sleep and thought that $hit was funny! I'm sure a baby would drink wine with juice.

But you couldn't put 3 -4 glasses of wine in a bottle, plus juice. And, how many babies drink more than one bottle at at time. Most don't even finish the whole thing. I don't think this would be a scenario.

 

[nursebeeme]

I, at this point, think everything goes back to the three missing cell phones as well as the decomp hit.

I have never in my life ( my best friend was murdered in the 80's-Tina Harmon=I have followed lots of searches over the years) seen so many metal detector searches!

I think they may have other reasons to get these cell phones.. like things they cannot get from call records like pictures, etc...

they seem to be a very hot item.

moo

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Maybe I'm crazy but if I witnessed that I'd call the police!It was a cold night and a baby in a diaper at 4am IMO Le should have been called.:banghead:

I am right there with you. I called in that a guy was fixing to hang himself in a tree. Turns out he was hanging a tire swing....hone:

 

[Wendy101]

Ok.. so cadaver dog hit on a spot in moms bedroom - by the bed...

WHat is the mothers excuse now? I hope Jeremy wakes up after hearing this news.

 

[RT51]

MOO but I still think it was accidental. Neglected in the tub and drowned. CPR tried on bedroom floor, then panic due to so many being convicted lately of neglect for letting their kids drown in the tub, so planned the kidnap to cover the accident. She may have even asked the older kids to watch her in the tub and they got distracted. Hence the not letting them talk.

 

[MissJames]

But for someone to be walking around that far with a dead baby not even covered to disguise her??

:waitasec:

Shock?

 

[panthera]

I, at this point, think everything goes back to the three missing cell phones as well as the decomp hit.

I have never in my life ( my best friend was murdered in the 80's-Tina Harmon=I have followed lots of searches over the years) seen so many metal detector searches!

I think they may have other reasons to get these cell phones.. like things they cannot get from call records like pictures, etc...

they seem to be a very hot item.

moo

There does appear to have been quite a lot of searching with metal detectors and similar items which leads me also to believe LE wants to locate the actual cell phones. Either they don't have complete records, or they need something that is actually on the phone(s). I am also led to believe by the focus on the house that the cell phones last pinged there, or very close by.

MOO

 

[panthera]

Shock?

Meaning someone in shock? Who? This person supposedly is a man and JI was at work.

Again, sorry I don't believe the last sighting.

 

[Curious Me]

The big news is the cadaver dogs hit positive in the bedroom by the bed. This can only mean one thing. Very sad news really.

 

[yllek]

I, at this point, think everything goes back to the three missing cell phones as well as the decomp hit.

I have never in my life ( my best friend was murdered in the 80's-Tina Harmon=I have followed lots of searches over the years) seen so many metal detector searches!

I think they may have other reasons to get these cell phones.. like things they cannot get from call records like pictures, etc...

they seem to be a very hot item.

moo

The cell phones are key, I agree. I think the first sighting by the neighbor man and wife was checked right away and probably deemed to be a man carrying his sleeping child in from the car or something like that. LE is on record as saying it was unrelated.

As for the second sighting, a man wandering around at 4 a.m. with a stolen unclothed baby... Did he have three cell phones stuffed in his pants pockets? Did he set the baby down and bury three cell phones? If Debbi is not involved, we have to assume that the baby abductor and the cell phone snatcher are one and the same, imo. I just don't see this second reported sighting being related either.

I now wonder if Debbi's cell phone was really broken. If I were an LEO, I'd be looking at what communication could have gone down between Debbi, her dad, and her fiancee in the days surrounding the reported abduction - the owners of the 3 cell phones that just happened to be in the kitchen and just happened to be abducted along with a 10 month old. I see no way that a cell phone theft would turn into a baby abduction or vice versa (but JMO). I'm confident LE has looked at communications between the 3 official owners of the phones; if there's anything odd, LE has many more of the puzzle pieces than do we.

All JMO...

 

[panthera]

Dr. Drew supposedly will continue his coverage after the commercial.

 

[MissJames]

MOO but I still think it was accidental. Neglected in the tub and drowned. CPR tried on bedroom floor, then panic due to so many being convicted lately of neglect for letting their kids drown in the tub, so planned the kidnap to cover the accident. She may have even asked the older kids to watch her in the tub and they got distracted. Hence the not letting them talk.

It's really not that easy to function when your child dies if you loved that child more than life,itself.

 

[mysteriew]

I agree, Katy. Most wine is between 11% and 12% alcohol.

IMO, I can't see a baby willingly drinking enough undiluted wine to lead to fatal alcohol poisoning, much less drinking enough wine diluted with fruit juice to lead to fatal alcohol poisoning.

Good grief - some of the theories that are being thrown out are getting downright preposterous.

Why is it so hard to believe that someone might have just battered or shaken their defenseless baby to death in a moment of rage & then tried to cover it up with a ridiculous kidnapping story, because that person knows full well they caused their baby's death?

BBM

Esp since there was a highly publicized case in the news not to long ago, where the mother is thought to have done the same thing. And she was not convicted. Why was she not convicted? Most likely because she did come up with a ridiculous kidnapper story and delayed the finding of her child's remains long enough that a cause of death couldn't be determined.

 

[Quiche]

Me either - I think if these people saw something, then it's possible it was a decoy. If someone had a 'decoy' in order for there to be fake 'sightings', then they would want it to be obvious that they were carrying a baby and for that baby to be seen. A baby is much more recognizable, especially at night, if just wearing a diaper rather than fully clothed/bundled-up, at which point the baby may go unnoticed altogether and completely blend in with the person carrying her.

That's why I'm thinking it's possible there was a doll. I know it sounds far-fetched, but then again this whole case is. And if you did commit a crime and needed the focus to be elsewhere, what better way than for someone to 'see a kidnapper with a baby'?

JMHO

I'm with you, I'm thinking decoy-- unless, of course, LE has gotten in touch with the guy in the neighborhood and knows what was what. Otherwise, the decoy thing is pretty smart thinking, and not by a drunk. I think the inebriation may be baloney too. mo

 

[Sammiejam]

I'm wondering if a *lover* is going to crawl out of the woodwork. Maybe someone who thought he *could* be Lisa's father? Maybe THIS is why the cell phones are missing?

There is a lot more to this story that we are not hearing.

 

[belimom]

Maybe I'm crazy but if I witnessed that I'd call the police!It was a cold night and a baby in a diaper at 4am IMO Le should have been called.:banghead:

And that's what I'm thinking they wanted to happen - if this was a decoy, kwim? I don't even know if I believe that's what it was. But to have someone call 911 at the same time you reported your baby missing? That would give a lot of credibility to the whole kidnapping story. MOO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

There does appear to have been quite a lot of searching with metal detectors and similar items which leads me also to believe LE wants to locate the actual cell phones. Either they don't have complete records, or they need something that is actually on the phone(s). I am also led to believe by the focus on the house that the cell phones last pinged there, or very close by.

MOO

ITA - LE wants those phones BAD!!! The pings probably put those phones at that house and no where else.

Here's a new thought about those phones I had today. LE has the records - we can pretty much bank on that. So, there are calls logged. Have to wonder how many times that night that DB and JI talked? And did DB (the missing phones) call anyone else?

Now, LE can't know FOR SURE what was said on those calls - they aren't like texts. And the parents can just be saying - he called me to see how the kids were, or I called her to tell her leave something out for me to eat, or - whatever KWIM? So, all LE knows is that calls were placed back and forth from him to her.

AND, finally - if LE finds those phones on the property - well then, pretty obvious they never left - especially if they find them hidden.

There is also the other thing that I've talked about in excess - pictures and/or video on those phones can not be retrieved by the carrier - only if those pic have ever been uploaded to anything - then it can be tracked back.

I'm willing to say - LE finds those phones with Baby Lisa

 

[MissJames]

The cell phones are key, I agree. I think the first sighting by the neighbor man and wife was checked right away and probably deemed to be a man carrying his sleeping child in from the car or something like that. LE is on record as saying it was unrelated.

As for the second sighting, a man wandering around at 4 a.m. with a stolen unclothed baby... Did he have three cell phones stuffed in his pants pockets? Did he set the baby down and bury three cell phones? If Debbi is not involved, we have to assume that the baby abductor and the cell phone snatcher are one and the same, imo. I just don't see this second reported sighting being related either.

I now wonder if Debbi's cell phone was really broken. If I were an LEO, I'd be looking at what communication could have gone down between Debbi, her dad, and her fiancee in the days surrounding the reported abduction - the owners of the 3 cell phones that just happened to be in the kitchen and just happened to be abducted along with a 10 month old. I see no way that a cell phone theft would turn into a baby abduction or vice versa (but JMO). I'm confident LE has looked at communications between the 3 official owners of the phones; if there's anything odd, LE has many more of the puzzle pieces than do we.

All JMO...

BBM
Whatever is on those phones is going to be key,IMO.

 

[marge_rita]

WOO,
I believe you're right.

There is also the other thing that I've talked about in excess - pictures and/or video on those phones can not be retrieved by the carrier - only if those pic have ever been uploaded to anything - then it can be tracked back.

I'm willing to say - LE finds those phones with Baby Lisa

imo