Long Easter Weekend Thread (Apr. 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9, 2012)

[Juris_Prudence]

They both testified that there was no drug debt between them = meaning between the two of them.

JMO

I took "them" to mean TM & JG (as a couple) and TLM. Thanks.

 

[ChaChaCha]

I took "them" to mean TM & JG (as a couple) and TLM. Thanks.

The question of the drug debt was left IMO wide open - TM never said (nor was she asked) who JG ripped off.

TLM said that neither TM or JG owed her any money - but that they may have owed others (Carol?)

So IMO the question of the drug debt is not dead in the water ... I fully expect that we will hear more about it from the defence as the trial progresses.

@AdrianMorrow
Tara McDonald says James Goris did have a drug debt: he ripped someone off for 20 or 30 pills worth $400. She had no debts.
__________________
The jury is returning. Ready to resume.

Derstine asks McClintic about providing theories of the crime. McClintic tells Det. Smyth, "James or Tara, I only met Tara like twice


RaffertyLFP: McClintic said she heard rumors about Stafford and McDonald. She said they did not owe her any drug money but they may owe money to others

Derstine asks McClintic about statements she made in video about Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford

 

[Ardy]

You need to link up these factual statements - how do you know she kept anything? Where is that written? What case was disclosed in court? Provide the link for that, please.

TIA,

Salem

A better word could have been chosen on my part, as my statement may infer that TLM "kept something" in a physical fashion.

This is not what I meant to say. In her letters, it was revealed that she obtained information on a witness against her on another assault/stabbing case......through court documents.

Although I intended TLM "kept" the information in her head.........I wasn't clear enough.

I will have to post this and then copy/paste link for the other question.

 

[Ardy]

As per the assault case being discussed in this trial...............

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...intic-charged-with-assault-after-prison-brawl

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Well, if TLM will plot against a fellow inmate, then I think its entirely possible that TLM plotted against MR. Even without her lawyer's inadvertent help in doing so, I think TLM is/was more than capable of making a plan and carrying it out, all on her own, just to hurt people. :twocents:

Well has it been proven that she plotted against anyone?

 

[Jezbel]

The question of the drug debt was left IMO wide open - TM never said (nor was she asked) who JG ripped off.

TLM said that neither TM or JG owed her any money - but that they may have owed others (Carol?)

So IMO the question of the drug debt is not dead in the water ... I fully expect that we will hear more about it from the defence as the trial progresses.

@AdrianMorrow
Tara McDonald says James Goris did have a drug debt: he ripped someone off for 20 or 30 pills worth $400. She had no debts.
__________________
The jury is returning. Ready to resume.

Derstine asks McClintic about providing theories of the crime. McClintic tells Det. Smyth, "James or Tara, I only met Tara like twice


RaffertyLFP: McClintic said she heard rumors about Stafford and McDonald. She said they did not owe her any drug money but they may owe money to others

Derstine asks McClintic about statements she made in video about Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford

TLM has testified that she was not owed any money so IMO why would TLM take Tori for a drug debt, sorry but that theory is just not gonna fly with me.

JMO

 

[Ardy]

Well has it been proven that she plotted against anyone?

No, the assault charge is alleged by LE, just as the charges against MR are alleged by LE.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court.

I believe past and present behaviour can provide insight on credibility though.

Like the old saying goes....judge people by what they do, not what they say.

 

[BorgQueen]

TLM lies, tells the truth, lies more, tells more truth, lies more... etc.
Where do her lies end, and where does the truth begin? And where does that truth end, and her other lies begin? Ad nauseum. :banghead:

That is why we have to pay very, very close attention to ALL the evidence presented in this case. Not just assume there is no evidence against the accused (the trial isn't over yet, all the evidence isn't presented yet), or just assume that he is absolutely, without a doubt, guilty. It is fine to have opinions, I am not saying we shouldn't think that he is *probably* guilty/not guilty, but to make a definite decision, ALL the evidence needs to be presented. We can not rely on her word only, just because she sometimes tells the truth. Her word is only there, as far as I am concerned, to 'back up' the evidence. Unless evidence is presented that matches her statements perfectly, then it is probably fairly safe to disregard anything else she says. Or is it?

I just hope, at the end of it all, that the right decision and the right people are locked up. For life. This is about Tori, a little girl whose life was taken away from her before she even had the chance to live it. She didn't die of natural causes. She died because some person(s) took it from her. This has to be done right.

:moo: :moo: :moo:

 

[swedie]

Actually, TM testifed that JG owed a drug debt, but never specified to whom the debt was owed in her testimony. moo.
RaffertyLFP:

She said she never owed anybody money for drugs, James Goris did [via Twitter]


http://www.canada.com/news/Tori+Sta...home+daughter+killer+video/6265400/story.html

McDonald told the court that she did not have any drug debts but Goris had at that time recently "ripped" someone off for 20 or 30 OxyContin pills worth about $400. She also denied that the family had received any type of ransom call the night Stafford went missing.

I sure hope this person JG had the drug debt to gets called to the stand to set the record straight. IMHO Tori was not abducted over a drug debt. She was abducted for sexual purposes. TLM stated on the stand MR was responsible for sexually assaulting Tori and she does not want MR out there amongst other children, where he can do to other children what he did to Tori.

As far as I am concerned, all the information about TLM's latest trial and charges are irrelevant to MR's case. It's been said and agreed upon thousands of times on this forum, TLM is wicked, evil, psychotic ect. ect. ect. and a danger to society. She's where she needs to be and I am extremely happy TLM was decent enough to confess for her part in Tori's demise and help LE find precious Tori so her family could lay her to rest with respect. MOO.

I do not see MR being innocent at all. If he was, he would have told LE as soon as it happened or at the least upon his arrest. He would have told LE where he saw a deranged TLM standing over a deceased Tori, with a hammer in her hand, so LE could bring this precious little girl home to family. I don't care who may have told him to clam up, he could have done the right and moral thing any other human being would have done; if anyone even believes his defense's tactic. Personally I don't. Time will tell in another month or so.

I am looking very forward to this coming week's testimonies, especially from forensics on Tuesday, about the evidence found in MR's car. That pea coat of MR's and the tiny piece of seat cloth. Something so small can be so damaging. If forensics can show it is the same material as the other cloth in the car, why is it there and not the back seat? Goes to back up TLM's statement she cut stains out of the back seat and when the stains could not be removed, MR knew he had to get rid of that important piece of evidence. Why? Because it was full of DNA, semen, blood of Tori's. That could be the real clincher. :moo:

 

[Hello_Kitty]

She passed the lie detector test even though she was clearly lying. She was still maintaining that she was not involved and also stated that she was wearing different clothes that day.

Well maybe she wasn't lying. Maybe her second version of what happened is the lie. JMO

 

[Ardy]

It would be interesting to have all the phone records of everyone involved to compare them and see who was calling who..........when and at what time.

I would assume both the Crown and defense would have that information.

We may hear more about that in the future............JMO

 

[tmhco]

I don't know if that is what she did or not, or even why she might have done such a thing. But, from the way this trial has been going so far, it certainly seems Derstine might take it in this direction. He has already gone ahead and shown the history of violent thoughts, gangster friend she kept, lurid music she listened to (though I realize the songs he pointed out and played in court were not found on the ipod - to my knowledge, and I can also agree that music does not a murderer make!)... I'm thinking that next we'll hear the defense say it was some kind of tiff between her and MR that set the wheels of horror into motion... jmo.

The evidence thus far does not point to the actual person who killed Tori. I am certain she knew that when she confessed to the murder. Why on earth, if this is a revenge scenario, would she confess to murdering Tori? JMO

 

[ChaChaCha]

Well has it been proven that she plotted against anyone?

Well, yes ... she has a proven history of plotting revenge. lRevenge should be her middle name.

One example:

In a number of letters, McClintic vows revenge against specific fellow inmates and detention centre staff.

McClintic’s letters make frequent references to a group known as the “Murderous B****es.”

One letter contains the names, addresses and phone numbers of witnesses who testified against her on robbery and assault charges.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/ToriStafford/2012/03/21/pf-19530466.html

Among her planned targets was her own mother as well as innocent family members of people she believed had wronged her or her friends.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/ToriStafford/2012/03/21/19533701.html?&pic=0

IMO she was full of pent up rage and spent most of her time planning her horrific revenges.

Another example:

 

[brighidin]

It would be interesting to have all the phone records of everyone involved to compare them and see who was calling who..........when and at what time.

I would assume both the Crown and defense would have that information.

We may hear more about that in the future............JMO

We know they have MR's because of the info on the ping. TLM didn't have a phone. Who else are you referring to when you say "the phone records of everyone involved?" Thanks.

 

[Ardy]

TLM lies, tells the truth, lies more, tells more truth, lies more... etc.
Where do her lies end, and where does the truth begin? And where does that truth end, and her other lies begin? Ad nauseum. :banghead:

That is why we have to pay very, very close attention to ALL the evidence presented in this case. Not just assume there is no evidence against the accused (the trial isn't over yet, all the evidence isn't presented yet), or just assume that he is absolutely, without a doubt, guilty. It is fine to have opinions, I am not saying we shouldn't think that he is *probably* guilty/not guilty, but to make a definite decision, ALL the evidence needs to be presented. We can not rely on her word only, just because she sometimes tells the truth. Her word is only there, as far as I am concerned, to 'back up' the evidence. Unless evidence is presented that matches her statements perfectly, then it is probably fairly safe to disregard anything else she says. Or is it?

I just hope, at the end of it all, that the right decision and the right people are locked up. For life. This is about Tori, a little girl whose life was taken away from her before she even had the chance to live it. She didn't die of natural causes. She died because some person(s) took it from her. This has to be done right.

:moo: :moo: :moo:

Very well stated.

I certainly haven't made my mind up yet.

With so much information to try to digest from "tweets", hopefully the summations by the Crown and defense will be available in the fullest, because that is their opportunity to tie everything together and put meaning to the bits and pieces.......JMO

 

[swedie]

TLM has testified that she was not owed any money so IMO why would TLM take Tori for a drug debt, sorry but that theory is just not gonna fly with me.

JMO

Me either as I've stated at least a zillion times before with :moo:. Momma always told me not to exaggerate :floorlaugh:

 

[Kamille]

Well, yes ... she has a proven history of plotting revenge. lRevenge should be her middle name.

One example:

In a number of letters, McClintic vows revenge against specific fellow inmates and detention centre staff.

McClintic’s letters make frequent references to a group known as the “Murderous B****es.”

One letter contains the names, addresses and phone numbers of witnesses who testified against her on robbery and assault charges.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/ToriStafford/2012/03/21/pf-19530466.html

Among her planned targets was her own mother as well as innocent family members of people she believed had wronged her or her friends.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/ToriStafford/2012/03/21/19533701.html?&pic=0

IMO she was full of pent up rage and spent most of her time planning her horrific revenges.

Another example:

And none of them have been harmed or even threatened in person by TLM. With the exception of the fight with her mother. In which she retaliated for being burned by a cigarette. So why did she choose Victoria for her first murder? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[swedie]

No, the assault charge is alleged by LE, just as the charges against MR are alleged by LE.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court.

I believe past and present behaviour can provide insight on credibility though.

Like the old saying goes....judge people by what they do, not what they say.

IMO LE must have something such as evidence and testimony (TLM's testimony is considered evidence) to back up their allegations.

That's a good quote Ardy, I've never heard it before; but it's good.:woohoo: I've heard one's like "don't judge a book by its cover", "only believe half of what you see and none of what you hear", and another practical one is "you learn something new every day". :moo:

 

[~n/t~]

The Crown has been presenting evidence to back up TLM's testimony. So far, they have backed up her testimony with proof to show she does have credibility in a lot of what she testified to.

Again, I don't see the relevance of continuing to bring up drug debts and gangs and now TLM's assault in jail when they have nothing to do with this trial.

TLM is not the one on trial. TLM confessed and she's now a convicted murderer. MR wanted his day in court and he's getting it. MR will get his chance with aid from counsel as to what his side of the story is but until then, why do some continue to provide theories that haven't even been presented by the defence yet? One example was the alleged drug debt when we know and it was proven and testified to that this had nothing to do with a drug debt but yet, it keeps coming up over and over again. And even if it did, it doesn't explain away MR's involvement with Tori's murder. He claims he didn't know Tori nor Rodney nor JG and he hardly knew the confessed murderer.

I read the last few posts and wondered if I had stumbled upon a different case. Why are we discussing TLM's assault charges? Maybe a separate thread should be started or move the conversation over to Crimes in the News forum. I honestly don't see the relevance to this case whatsoever. If it's brought up by the defence, perhaps we can discuss it then but to continue to derail this forum with TLM's crimes past and present is totally off topic. I don't care who she assaults in jail and why. All I care about is getting justice for Victoria.

IMO

 

[Mystic]

I was thinking about Derstine using those Necro lyrics as a strategy in his defense so I looked up the track list for Much Dance 2009. If you want to make a case for sexual assault...just look up the lyrics to the songs on there. :what::floorlaugh:

Here's the list...

01. Rihanna - Disturbia 03:37
02. Lady GaGa - Just Dance (Feat. Colby O'Donis) 03:20
(HCCR's Bambossa Remix)
03. The Pussycat Dolls - When I Grow Up 03:46
(Ralphi Rosario Remix Radio)
04. Ne-Yo - Closer 03:56
05. Chris Brown - Forever 04:09
06. Britney Spears - Break The Ice 02:54
07. Danny Fernandes - Private Dancer (Feat. Belly) 02:44
08. Classified - Hard To Be Hip Hop (Feat. Maestro Fresh Wes) 02:45
09. Kanye West - Flashing Lights (Feat. Dwele) 03:32
10. Girlicious - Like Me 02:51
11. Leona Lewis - Bleeding Love 03:55
12. Jordin Sparks - No Air (Feat. Chris Brown) 03:41
(DJ Swerve Remix)
13. *Shiloh - Operator (A Girl Like Me) 02:54
14. Avril Lavigne - The Best Damn Thing 03:06
15. Metro Station - Shake It 02:50
16. Lil Wayne - Lollipop (Feat. Static Major) 04:06
17. Usher - Love In This Club (Feat. Young Jeezy) 04:15
(Reavers Remix)


So you can see how much of a stretch it is to be using song lyrics in a serious abduction, rape and murder case. Especially when she's already admitted to being the actual killer. They really are clutching at straws here.

Can you imagine if the Crown had picked through all of the songs on that list and mentioned all the sexual references that may have tied in with what TLM claimed he did to Victoria? A tape we have been told was playing in the car on the way to Guelph? Not to mention the other CD's that were found. We never heard what was on those. Because it doesn't matter. Music doesn't make people rape and kill.
MOO

BBM i agree, it just shows bad taste in music and as far as I know that isn't illegal