Long Easter Weekend Thread (Apr. 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9, 2012)

[Ardy]

With all due respect, I don't think the fact that a man has sex with a woman he just met for a few hours is indicative of anything.

When I was 28, I would go out hoping it would happen.

 

[Tahorn]

The fact MR picked TLM up at a pizza shop, asked her to go for a drive and had sex with her in his car within mere hours of meeting her hopefully answers your part I bolded above. Plus the fact MR was the "engine" who drove TLM around to homes of single women and discussed breaking into them and tying people up. Sounds like he was the instigator/manipulator who needed his warped sexual fantasies fulfilled.

Moving on to next bolded part, MR was stupid enough to think he would never get caught. Now that he has been caught, he's blaming it all on TLM. MR knew exactly what he was getting into when he met TLM. I still go back to my suspicion MR knew of TLM long before he picked her up at the pizza shop. I presume a drug friend of a drug friend of a drug friend is how MR found out about TLM and her bad ways. HTH and :moo:

TLM said he drove around looking to tie up single mothers ... no other evidence as of yet to prove that.

I am sorry ... why would one trust her to keep something as horrific as what happened to VS as a secret when she is known for bragging about her other violent crimes ... just does not make sense.

It doesn't mean he did not participate after the fact ... I just do not believe the evidence as of yet has supported her statement.

Believe me if all I saw was her statement I would have strung him up myself ... however because of this trial we know now that people like TLM are out there and that is valuable information for us to protect out children.

 

[Tahorn]

Very good observation.

Under that scenario, in her own mind she could forever bind them together with a terrible deed they did together.

The defense theory looks a lot more plausible under that light, if MR had refused the offer and rebuffed TLM.

That could have enraged her and led to the final events.....gained by more manipulation of the situation.

After that, maybe she wanted to make him pay for rejecting her.

Karla Holmoka

 

[Ardy]

Karla Holmoka

Yes, and I was thinking of the other way around..........that if MR accepted TLM's plan to bond their relationship, he would have been willing to accept the fact his future life would forever be bound to a person like her. He could have ended up in one of her letters or journals in the future, or found his future traded away for a lesser sentence some day.

If that was the case......I would have thought he would have shown more obvious signs of severe mental impairment prior to and during the crime.

But, according to the testimony of BA............he didn't.

Weird for sure...........

Enough to think about for one night.

 

[BorgQueen]

How the two could come up with it is rather irrelevant (IMO). It happens. It is sick. They aren't the first, and they won't be the last (unfortunately). Yes, it happened very quickly. IMO, it is obvious, if the accused is in fact guilty, that they had discussed their sick fantasies previously (possibly including the tying up single mothers thing). Perhaps MR told her to get him a girl. Or, perhaps TLM decided that "today's the day".

http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/deadly-women-deadly-attraction.html

 

[jaycee]

TLM lies, tells the truth, lies more, tells more truth, lies more... etc.
Where do her lies end, and where does the truth begin? And where does that truth end, and her other lies begin? Ad nauseum. :banghead:

That is why we have to pay very, very close attention to ALL the evidence presented in this case. Not just assume there is no evidence against the accused (the trial isn't over yet, all the evidence isn't presented yet), or just assume that he is absolutely, without a doubt, guilty. It is fine to have opinions, I am not saying we shouldn't think that he is *probably* guilty/not guilty, but to make a definite decision, ALL the evidence needs to be presented. We can not rely on her word only, just because she sometimes tells the truth. Her word is only there, as far as I am concerned, to 'back up' the evidence. Unless evidence is presented that matches her statements perfectly, then it is probably fairly safe to disregard anything else she says. Or is it?

I just hope, at the end of it all, that the right decision and the right people are locked up. For life. This is about Tori, a little girl whose life was taken away from her before she even had the chance to live it. She didn't die of natural causes. She died because some person(s) took it from her. This has to be done right.

:moo: :moo: :moo:

So true. I have been following the trial very carefully and doing my best to keep an open mind. It is so hard to know what to believe so I'm waiting to hear it all. I too just want this done right.

 

[snoofer]

Some drug debt collectors use bats...possible MTR likes to use hammers? JMO

TLM essentially confessed and "ratted out" MTR. IF MTR was in organized drug dealing and this was a settling of a drug debt on MTR part....this could put TLM in big danger.....but if she ratted out a sexual deviant then no so much trouble for her in prison....JMO But..I am not so sure he couldn't be BOTH. JMO

 

[~n/t~]

April 8, 2009, was the day Tori never returned home from school and never would again.

"We'll probably go to the cemetery, dig a couple of little holes, bury some eggs like we do every year and share Easter with Victoria," Stafford said.

http://www.680news.com/news/nationa...sunday-on-three-year-anniversary-of-abduction


Always in our hearts and prayers......

 

[maxfactor]

Hmmm, no ... I think the defense will say that JG owed Carol ... if they can substantiate it that is ...

I believe that TM testified that she (at least) didn't know MR and that she had no drug debts (at that time - the question was asked and answered by her in the present tense while I got the impression that the $400 owed by JG was at the time of the abduction.)

JMO

I don't think TM was asked on the stand if she knew MR, I remember some of us thinking that was odd. The defense didn't ask her either which I found very odd. I would have thought he would have wanted it clear that MR did not know her. So I suppose it's possible that JG ripped MR off. But I don't think so. I'm sure I saw a tweet somewhere that TM named someone else but I don't think the name was given. I'll try to find the tweet.

And as for the lie detector, I need to go back and check into that to make sure I am clear on it. My understanding was that she had thought she failed but she didn't. I also thought she admitted her involvement in the lie detector. I'll go back and find tweets for that too.

 

[Juris_Prudence]

The evidence thus far does not point to the actual person who killed Tori. I am certain she knew that when she confessed to the murder. Why on earth, if this is a revenge scenario, would she confess to murdering Tori? JMO

I have no idea why she would give two different confessions, years apart. The only thing I know is that TLM is a proven liar.

 

[Kamille]

:rose: :rose: Victoria Elizabeth Marie Stafford :rose: :rose:

:rose: :rose: July 15, 2000 - April 8, 2009 :rose: :rose:​

 

[matou]

Poor Tori, the fear, the suffering you endured. God held you in his arms and you were entombed in rock, like Jesus was. This on the day of the resurrection of Christ, lets remember that Tori is with God, forever protected. JMO RIP little angel. xoxoxoxo

 

[Juris_Prudence]

If that's a possible scenario then JG will be testifying?

Good question. I don't recall having seen any media reports to suggest that he was in the courtroom with TM - I'm wondering if he will be called to testify at sometime? If not, then surely he would be sitting with TM in court (wouldn't he?). :twocents:

ETA: I have now seen Swedie's earlier post wherein she advised there have been media reports that JG was in the courtroom. I still haven't found anything to support that he was IN the courtroom (hearing testimony). I know he has been AT the courthouse. Still looking for media reports trying to sort it out, so if you happen to read this and you happen to have one, pls post it. Thanks.

 

[Juris_Prudence]

3 years today.

 

[Juris_Prudence]

For those interested, there is a lovely set of photos of Tori here:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Photos+collection+Tori+Stafford+photos/3952770/story.html

Many I have never seen before. So sad to look at knowing how her life was so violently cut short.

 

[~n/t~]

For those interested, there is a lovely set of photos of Tori here:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Photos+collection+Tori+Stafford+photos/3952770/story.html

Many I have never seen before. So sad to look at knowing how her life was so violently cut short.

The ones of her and her brother always make me cry. :cry:

 

[BorgQueen]

For those interested, there is a lovely set of photos of Tori here:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Photos+collection+Tori+Stafford+photos/3952770/story.html

Many I have never seen before. So sad to look at knowing how her life was so violently cut short.

Such a beautiful girl. She looks so much like both Tara and Rodney. Absolutely beautiful. So heartbreaking

 

[KMouse]

"you would do anything for a little bit of love wouldn't you?". To me that said it all.

TLM is somebody that has probably never been given affection. Her mother gave her away to a stripper friend. Her and her adoptive mother had a disorderly relationship. Sounds like the bond they shared was through the Oxy they shot up. TLM didn't know who her father was.
Who knows if she ever had any boyfriends and if so what type of relationships those were.
Along comes MR. From the outside he appears to have a job, a car, some money, and he isn't a bad looking guy. He shows her a bit of attention and in her mind some affection and "love" and he has her eating out of the palm of his hand.

 

[Juris_Prudence]

I sure hope this person JG had the drug debt to gets called to the stand to set the record straight. IMHO Tori was not abducted over a drug debt. She was abducted for sexual purposes. TLM stated on the stand MR was responsible for sexually assaulting Tori and she does not want MR out there amongst other children, where he can do to other children what he did to Tori. ......



:

Above quote snipped for space. Text bolded and colored by me for clarity.

I personally do not believe that TLM had concerns about MR being out amongst other children. If she were truly concerned about that, then she would have run to police as soon as she got home the night of the abduction and murder. She was content to let him roam free for six weeks before she finally coughed up a confession to police. How would she have known that he would not get "bloodthirsty" (as she worded it) again? She must have had a lot of trust in him that he wouldn't do this again to another child. If she was willing to trust he would not do it again, and willing to allow him to roam free for six weeks, then I'm sorry but I don't think her confession had anything to do with helping other children to stay safe from MR. Six weeks. Six weeks she denied involvement.

Even RS thanked TLM for coming forward, and helping in the investigation. I wonder how he feels about having done that now after having to endure yet another version of TLM's "truth". I think its sick. I think its despicable! Her sworn ASoF which she now declares was a lie (at least in part), has made a mockery of our justice system!

TLM must be getting one hell of a thrill out of screwing with the family's emotions. If she lied in either statement to the courts, then I'm sure it was about screwing with people and hurting people further. She had no reason to lie or tell the truth at this most recent appearance because she was already serving a life sentence. She clearly takes some sick pleasure out

I don't pick and choose what I believe of TLM's testimony from either confession. I believe only the following:

a) That TLM abducted Tori. She is the only one seen in video walking away and lead Tori to her demise. There is video evidence to support this fact.
b) That Tori was murdered (by someone) with a hammer. There is forensic evidence which supported this fact.
c) That Tori's remains were left in the middle of nowhere, hours away from her family and loved ones, in a field, where no one would hear her if she screamed. She was in garbage bags like trash. This has been proven by the officer who discovered her remains, and by the photos presented in court last week.

I'm hoping there will be evidence forthcoming that will help prove or disprove the rest of TLM's claims about who's idea it was, about who did what, about the motive. The truth. That is the least that either of the accused could give to Tori's family. The truth.

The entire post is of course, my opinion only. I accept that not everyone on the forum holds the same thoughts or opinions. I accept everyone else's point of view, and continue to read, and consider the points being put forward. I will keep an open mind about MR and hope evidence (forensics or testimony from other hopefully more credible witnesses, video, cell phone records etc) will prove him guilty or not guilty of all or part of what he is charged with.

But I won't take TLM's testimony as "evidence" of anything more than the fact that she is a liar.

:twocents:

 

[robynhood]

...I find cannot find a thread for today ...Sunday April 8 2012.........hmmm I am wondering why today is not listed even for the long weekend thread...How can we not be thinking of OUR LITTLE Angel !...websleuth's page does even have it dated...just LONG WEEKEND?????...thanks to the poster who put together all those lovely pics of TORI...wrenches my HEART too....RIP.our little Angel and naturally we all want JUSTICE FOR Tori....I am sure when the court resumes it shall be one HECK of a week ....Hope we see DNA and direct evidence for this case ....IMO...I want to see Micheal Rafferty locked away forever ! Hey does anyone have info on Terri Lynn's mom ....? ...very curious as to what happened to her ???...thanks robynhood