Long Easter Weekend Thread (Apr. 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9, 2012)

[daisy.faithfull]

I think there have been arguments made that how the jury is chosen has a huge affect on the outcome trials here in the US.

It looks the jury selection process is different in Canada, so at least we don't have to worry about that too much.

"Therefore, the parties in a legal dispute have been able to afford to hire trial consultants. In Canada, jury selection is a far more restrictive process where very little information about prospective jurors can be obtained. So a trial consultant focusing only on this area will probably not have a busy career."

http://www.collegefortn.org/Career_Planning/Career_Profile/Career_Profile.aspx?id=xnjTbZLXAP2FPAX9MHsqqjOaJnXAP2FPAXVgXAP3DPAXXAP3DPAX

Up until recently I never would have thought that how a jury was chosen could have such a dramatic effect on the verdict...

 

[Jezbel]

During disturbing testimony this week, the 21-year-old McClintic told the court that she inflicted fatal blows to Tori by kicking and hitting her head with a hammer.

But the issue of credibility was raised in court this week, and the jury was told of a confession from McClintic dated May 24, 2009.

That confession came five days after McClintic was charged in Tori's death. In the 2009 confession, McClintic said Rafferty killed Tori.

McClintic pleaded guilty two years ago to Stafford's murder. She is serving a life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years.

When asked Friday why she once blamed Rafferty for the death, McClintic said that her intention was to ensure that Rafferty would never be able to harm a child again.

But the jury was instructed by the judge that they cannot rely on the 2009 statement, and to use only McClintic's testimony from this week.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/CanadaAM/...rns-to-stand-in-stafford-murder-trial-120316/

RSBM
Earlier Wednesday, jurors were shown portions of a videotaped statement McClintic gave to police on May 24, 2009, just weeks after Tori vanished.

In the video, McClintic tells OPP Det. Sgt. Jim Smyth that it was Rafferty who killed Tori, not herself — the opposite of what she has testified in court.

Michael Rafferty is seen in a police cruiser after leaving court on March 14. (Dave Chidley/Canadian Press)
On Wednesday, Judge Thomas Heeney told jurors that the videotaped statement will now be part of the evidence that can be used to determine the facts in the present trial.

Previously, the judge had said the jury could only use the video statement to determine the credibility of McClintic as a witness.

Heeney said the jury can accept all, some or none of McClintic's statement, just as they can with her previous testimony. However, Heeney noted that the statement is not sworn testimony, but instead is an interview with police.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/20/stafford-rafferty-trial-wednesday.html

 

[Alethea Dice]

Happy Easter everyone.

Barley caught up but found in one the photos of the evidence something "sticking out" that caught my attention and it has no baring on the case i dont think but just stuck out to me as a "HMM"

The last photo of the entrence to MR home where the entrence table is. there are 2 pairs of shoes, One is pink sandles the other is a pair of running shoes.. THe laces are tied and tucked behind the tounge of the shoe

[/IMG]

Doesn't it look like these ones are tied the same way, only on opposite shoes? One shoe laced over the tongue and one under?

 

[daisy.faithfull]

It does, how strange. I wonder if this is related to the odd sock that now and again goes missing when I do my wash......

 

[Alethea Dice]

I think it is also significant that MTR was caught on video tape cruising around the school without TLM. I know we don't know for absolute certainty that he was trolling or thinking about an abduction, but when I step back and look at the big picture that is exactly what it looks like to me.

Or maybe TLM had told him she was going to pick up a little girl from school that day and he was just being proactive and looking for a parking space.:waitasec:

I don't have time to look for the links right now, but I had been keeping track of the times from the video evidence shown at the trial. From my list, I have:

9:04 - the car was seen near the smoking area, at CASS I assume
2:19 - TLM was at the employment centre. When she left, she walked home and says that MR was at her house, asked her to go to Guelph with him and they drove by the school.
3:05 - the car drove by the school (so is this when TLM was with him?)
3:20 - the car is at the Esso station and the school bell rings
3:25 - Tori leaves the school
3:30 - the car goes north down Fife and pulls into the retirement home
3:32 - TLM is caught on video walking down the street with Tori
3:33 - the car leaves the retirement home and drives north on Fife

From this, it's possible they had planned this out. Or it could also be possible that TLM said she had to pick someone up after school before she could go. He went for gas while she waited at the school, then went to pick them up. It would be interesting to know why he was originally going to go to Guelph alone, then changed his mind and decided to invite her (according to TLM).

 

[~n/t~]

Police questioned Rafferty May 15 and noticed his Honda Civic seemed similar to the one in the video, but had no back seat. After the interview, police later learned, Rafferty spent the weekend contacting auto wreckers and rental agencies about getting another car. He also went to Masonville Place in London to get a new BlackBerry.

McClintic confessed May 19 to being the woman who lured Tori away, and Rafferty was arrested the same day.

Police seized his vehicle and found evidence of Tori's blood on the rear passenger door moulding. Blood found on a Goodlife fitness bag inside the car was a mixture of Tori and Rafferty's blood.

"Listen carefully to the DNA evidence. It will tell you a lot," Gowdey said.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/20...ifficult-story-about-tori-staffords-final-day

 

[Juris_Prudence]

BBM: TLM has also been proven to have told the truth.

I agree that there are things she was proven to be telling the truth about. I outlined these things in an earlier post:

a) that she abducted Tori.
b) that Tori was murdered with a hammer.
c) that Tori was left in a field far away from anyone who could help her.

I will even add that she appears to have told the truth about throwing her shoes along the roadway after the murder (those were later discovered by the walker, and proven to be hers).

I can add further to this:
It was true they drove to HD where TLM bought the murder weapon.
It was true they bought drugs along the route to Tori's death.

There may be other things as well that she did tell the truth about. But so far, the things she is accusing MR of having done, I just have not seen evidence presented to corroborate one way or the other yet. All I've heard is her differing versions of what happened.

Given that she has lied as often as she has told the truth, and given her apparent propensity to lie when it suits her, I think I need to hear / see other evidence to back up her claims against MR.

One way or the other, I hope more evidence surfaces to show what his role was in all of this so that he can be convicted on facts and evidence (or acquitted if that ends up happening, though I kinda think that it is doubtful this would happen). I don't want him to have wiggle room to later say he didn't have a fair trial. I don't want the family put through the process of lengthy appeals!

As long as TLM continues to lie when it suits her, there is precious little justice to be had for Tori's family. Its a further injustice to Tori and her loved ones to have to relive this, and to have to learn more shocking details which contradict what they'd already learned and resigned themselves to! Its a disgrace! Pardon my outrage - this entire case infuriates me! :twocents:

 

[JayFriend]

I think I have eaten too much Easter chocolate and it has affected my brain. Can someone please explain to me why we are discussing the shoes in the pic from MR's mother's house and why we are diagramming shoe tying options? I don't get it. LOL

Thanks.

Well, if the defence has sleuths lurking here, it's to throw out red herrings. How's that for a theory? :waitasec:

 

[Wondergirl]

This really made me cry. You'll see why when you look at the picture.

Tori Stafford: Family marks third anniversary of disappearance with visit to grave

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...iversary-of-disappearance-with-visit-to-grave

That is so very sad, omg.

Thank-you for posting that.

 

[Wondergirl]

My bold and underlined portion. In May 2009, TLM blamed MR for the murder because she felt it would seal his fate, he would get a 25 year sentence for the murder, her reasoning; she didn't want him free to sexually assault any other children. My understanding is TLM has been counselled and informed about the facts of first degree murder. By January when she made her full confession she did so knowing MR would be charged also with murder because Tori died while in their possession. That put her mind at ease then knowing MR would not be free to rape any other children again. JMHO

During disturbing testimony this week, the 21-year-old McClintic told the court that she inflicted fatal blows to Tori by kicking and hitting her head with a hammer.

But the issue of credibility was raised in court this week, and the jury was told of a confession from McClintic dated May 24, 2009.

That confession came five days after McClintic was charged in Tori's death. In the 2009 confession, McClintic said Rafferty killed Tori.

McClintic pleaded guilty two years ago to Stafford's murder. She is serving a life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years.

When asked Friday why she once blamed Rafferty for the death, McClintic said that her intention was to ensure that Rafferty would never be able to harm a child again.

But the jury was instructed by the judge that they cannot rely on the 2009 statement, and to use only McClintic's testimony from this week.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/CanadaAM/...rns-to-stand-in-stafford-murder-trial-120316/

Underlined: You know, it doesn't sit that well with me that TLM says this about wanting to ensure that Rafferty would never be able to harm a child again.

What about her? :banghead:

What about ensuring SHE doesn't harm another child or person again?

I believe MTR did harm Tori, and he doesn't get a pass.

MTR certainly never cared about TLM HARMING ANYONE ELSE AGAIN, as he went to visit her in juvie. WTH? That's as messed as anything, and shows he is fully involved, no matter what his lies tried to sway to the contrary.

Pure evil, IMO.

 

[Wondergirl]

Corroborating TLM's version of events with evidence found:

The hair dye link between the two - painstakingly proved by police and prosecutors down to affidavits obtained from the manufacturer and retailer - is significant for a couple of reasons.

First, it corroborates what McClintic told Ontario Superior Court Judge Thomas Heeney and the jurors when she testified.

She said that though she had cut her hair after the killing, it wasn't enough of an appearance change for Rafferty, and that he left the hair dye for her near a telephone pole by her house and told her to get it.

(By this time, police were looking for a mystery woman with long dark hair and wearing a white coat who appeared on security video near Tori's school, walking with the little girl.)

McClintic was arrested, initially on an unrelated probation warrant, the day after Rafferty bought the hair dye, presumably before she got a chance to use it.

But the link also raises the broader issue of why, if Rafferty was - as his lawyer Dirk Derstine suggested in his cross-examination of McClintic - merely a ``horrified'' bystander to the murder, he would have been taking steps to help the real killer change her appearance.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/Blatchford+Ha...stander+plea/6418882/story.html#ixzz1rY9y2PVO
​

The search of the Rafferty and McClintic homes also turned up other items linking the burly 31-year-old to McClintic and to her version of what happened on April 8, 2009, the day Tori was lured away from her Woodstock public school by McClintic.

Among these items was a memory card with three pictures of McClintic lolling on the bed at a local motel where the two had sex on March 26 that year, a black pea jacket she said was used to hide the little girl as she was forced to the floor of Rafferty's Honda Civic, a ``Missing 8-year-old'' poster (one was also found in the shotgun shack where McClintic lived with her mother) and a blue folding knife (the blade missing) that looked just like the one McClintic had drawn for police with her usual clarity.

Police also found a note in a drawer which read, ``Things 4 Carol'' and listed small pieces of furniture.

McClintic testified that after she was arrested - first on the unrelated warrant and before she confessed to involvement in Tori's death - Rafferty stayed in touch with her, visited her at the detention centre where she was being held, and helped her mother Carol McClintic, about whom she was worried.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/Blatchford+Ha...stander+plea/6418882/story.html#ixzz1rYAv7f6P
​

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I don't have time to look for the links right now, but I had been keeping track of the times from the video evidence shown at the trial. From my list, I have:

9:04 - the car was seen near the smoking area, at CASS I assume
2:19 - TLM was at the employment centre. When she left, she walked home and says that MR was at her house, asked her to go to Guelph with him and they drove by the school.
3:05 - the car drove by the school (so is this when TLM was with him?)
3:20 - the car is at the Esso station and the school bell rings
3:25 - Tori leaves the school
3:30 - the car goes north down Fife and pulls into the retirement home
3:32 - TLM is caught on video walking down the street with Tori
3:33 - the car leaves the retirement home and drives north on Fife

From this, it's possible they had planned this out. Or it could also be possible that TLM said she had to pick someone up after school before she could go. He went for gas while she waited at the school, then went to pick them up. It would be interesting to know why he was originally going to go to Guelph alone, then changed his mind and decided to invite her (according to TLM).

I don't have my laptop with me and that is where the timeline that I made is, but that looks about right.

I'm referring to the one where he is around the school just as classes start when he posted on his Facebook that good things are coming his way. To me that makes MTR look like an active participant in the abduction.

As far as changing his mind that he wasn't going to Guelph, it's possible that they decided this was going to be the day after MTR made his plans with BA. He could've changed his plans with BA, but he's an addict. He needed those drugs.

I know that there are innocent explanations for each instance where MTR looks guilty. And if there were one or two such incidents I don't think I be comfortable saying I think he's guilty. But it's not just one or two things.

 

[Hazel]

Rodney Stafford, father of Victoria (Tori) Stafford, visits her grave to mark the third anniversary
of the day the eight-year-old girl vanished while walking home from school, in Woodstock, Ont.,
Sunday, April 8, 2012.THE CANADIAN PRESS/Dave Chidley​

:rose:
http://www.1310news.com/news/national/article/349505--family-of-tori-stafford-spend-quiet-day-on-anniversary-of-her-disappearance

 

[matou]

MR was with TLM at the same time he was dating another woman. What were the triggers in his life that could have made him really actively work towards abducting a child for his deviant fantansies?

-he had a relationship that had just ended.
-he had a relationship with a young girl who was addicted to drugs
-two weeks before Tori went missing, he had a blowout with his mother's live-in boyfriend.

Something set him off to to start the process of abducting a child. I believe he had wanted to do this for awhile before he was successful with his partner in crime. I have to think that MR was fixated on the woman he dated with the child just before he 'accepted' Tori into his vehicle. What if he was obsessed with her child? He trolled schools with TLM and also told her about the floor plans to homes that would be easy to break into. JMO

Two weeks before young Tori Stafford went missing, Dave Riddell was fed up.
After spending six years with his girlfriend Deborah Murray in Tori's hometown of Woodstock, Mr. Riddell packed up his belongings and left. He told neighbours that Ms. Murray's son, Michael Rafferty, had a temper, and had been “freeloading” off his mother since moving in with the couple a year ago.

This quote shows that MR had a temper. Maybe there will be witnesses that will testify to that. I also read before that the police were called in re. this fight, but I can't find that source right now. JMO

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/man-came-home-to-get-back-on-his-feet/article1145995/

 

[Juris_Prudence]

Just a question:
If MR stated to TLM that Tori was too old, then why did he proceed with the plan?

 

[matou]

Just a question:
If MR stated to TLM that Tori was too old, then why did he proceed with the plan?

Because he wanted to rape a child. He told her he wanted a younger child, IIRC. This could explain the grumpiness he showed during the car ride to Mount Forest. JMO

 

[Juris_Prudence]

Because he wanted to rape a child. He told her he wanted a younger child, IIRC. This could explain the grumpiness he showed during the car ride to Mount Forest. JMO

Its sick isn't it? Rape a child. Of any age. Just sick! I hope this case is proven beyond a reasonable doubt and lays the questions I'm sure we all have about the defendant and TLM we all have.
:banghead:

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Rodney Stafford, father of Victoria (Tori) Stafford, visits her grave to mark the third anniversary
of the day the eight-year-old girl vanished while walking home from school, in Woodstock, Ont.,
Sunday, April 8, 2012.THE CANADIAN PRESS/Dave Chidley​

:rose:
http://www.1310news.com/news/national/article/349505--family-of-tori-stafford-spend-quiet-day-on-anniversary-of-her-disappearance

It bothers me that the press was there taking pictures during this very private family moment. I know there are bigger things to be upset about, but the little things get to me too.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Well, if the defence has sleuths lurking here, it's to throw out red herrings. How's that for a theory? :waitasec:

I wonder if prosecutors come here, that'd be kinda cool. I've always wondered if LE comes here.

 

[maxfactor]

It bothers me that the press was there taking pictures during this very private family moment. I know there are bigger things to be upset about, but the little things get to me too.

I was thinking that too, but I read on the FB page that this reporter had been very good with the family and they had invited him along. All in the name of awareness, thanks to the Stafford's for that!!!!