long weekend break: discuss the latest here #102

[christee]

I'm no fan of JA at all, I think she's a sick and quite evil individual, but I'm kind of tired of her being demonised when all she did is what a thousand husbands and boyfriends do to their wives and girlfriends, every single year. We aren't having blow by blow coverage of these cases, because they are so common. Arias is no worse than any one of these guys and needs to be treated exactly the same, ho hum another domestic, not vilified and judged to be some sort of Evil Goddess.

She is not a Bundy who went rampantly slaughtering innocent strangers for nothing other than bloodlust. She had one victim. He treated her badly. It was a crime of passion, and not exactly motiveless as Bundy's crimes were.

bbm
One victim that we know of. Seriously, It would not surprise me to learn she has killed before.
jmo

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

No court April 1st! There will be court this Monday:seeya:

Is that because the April Fool has already been on the stand this week? :floorlaugh:

 

[Karmady]

Jodi probably told her that, just like she told MM that Travis was abusive to her (allegedly, she told him this).

Well, if she did, that would have really been stupid. Because the word on the street now is that she abused a kitten lol

 

[KandyKane]

Be glad to. Here you go:

Oh holy cow! That's a scream!

And look what other video popped up after I watched yours! It's mostly the lyrics that are fabulous though fair warning, there's a couple of cuss words. If you watch it on the YouTube site you also get the lyrics all written out. I nearly died laughing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bux27f49T5U

*Mods: if this is inappropriate for any reason feel free to delete it. :blushing:

 

[Allyne Smithe]

http://flagstaff-lawyer.com/news-blog/2011/01/flagstaff-lawyer-discusses-premeditated/


“Premeditation” means that the defendant intended to kill another human being or knew he would kill another human being, and that after forming that intent or knowledge, reflected on the decision before killing. It is this reflection, regardless of the length of time in which it occurs, that distinguishes first degree murder from second degree murder. An act is not done with premeditation if it is the instant effect of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion. The time needed for reflection is not necessarily prolonged, and the space of time between the intent or knowledge to kill and the act of killing may be very short.

Therefore, under Arizona law, a person can be sent to prison for life on a first degree (felony) murder conviction without ever having premeditation.

Someone help me here, but to me the last sentence contradicts the paragraph immediately preceding it. The paragraph above says that "it is this reflection, regardless of the length of time in which it occurs, that distinguishes first degree murder from second degree murder." Then it goes on to say it isn't done with premeditation "if it is the instant effect of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion."

If that's what distinguishes first-degree murder from second-degree murder, wouldn't a murder resulting from "the instant effect of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion" be second-degree murder?

We all know premeditation can be a very short period of time, but it has to contain a flash of recognition or, as the above sentence put it, reflection. Almost by definition an instant effect of sudden quarrel or heat of passion doesn't and therefore--to me--would be second-degree murder.

Have I jumped the shark? AZLawyer or Minor4th, can you please explain how Arizona works? TIA!

 

[Hatfield]

I keep hearing/reading that there is a juror that is smiling at Jodi? Please, don't let this be true. lease:

Even if there was, there is a chance that juror would not get picked. There are alternates as part of the jury pool. My understanding is the final 12 get picked right before deliberations.

 

[Karmady]

bbm
One victim that we know of. Seriously, It would not surprise me to learn she has killed before.
jmo

This is another thing that's making my head spin on these threads. This is a relatively standard intimate partner crime. None of the details are particularly shocking or unusual except that we've seen pics of private parts because they're the best evidence of presence at the crime scene and the religious aspect. Mormons doing un-Mormanlike things always makes the news here (see the bestiality couple I posted previously). Yeah, there were a bunch of stabs wounds. Compare it to the other case that Juan prosecuted with the rape and killing of a teen girl and the torture of her little brother in the presence of her restrained parents. THAT is sick. Manson's followers committed their crimes on complete strangers. They cut the fetus out of the stomach of a 9 month pregnant woman. Dahmer drilled holes into his victim's brain while he was alive and poured chemicals in there to see what would happen.

Jodi Arias isn't even slightly the worst criminal who's walked the face of the earth. Not even close. If she were to be out of prison tomorrow, I wouldn't worry myself about her in the slightest. jm

 

[Karmady]

Someone help me here, but to me the last sentence contradicts the paragraph immediately preceding it. The paragraph above says that "it is this reflection, regardless of the length of time in which it occurs, that distinguishes first degree murder from second degree murder." Then it goes on to say it isn't done with premeditation "if it is the instant effect of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion."

If that's what distinguishes first-degree murder from second-degree murder, wouldn't a murder resulting from "the instant effect of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion" be second-degree murder?

We all know premeditation can be a very short period of time, but it has to contain a flash of recognition or, as the above sentence put it, reflection. Almost by definition an instant effect of sudden quarrel or heat of passion doesn't and therefore--to me--would be second-degree murder.

Have I jumped the shark? AZLawyer or Minor4th, can you please explain how Arizona works? TIA!

You're right. Go to the link and read the article. The snip is a non sequiter

 

[katiecoolady]

I keep hearing/reading that there is a juror that is smiling at Jodi? Please, don't let this be true. lease:

I have never seen this. Not even once. I did maybe see the juror we call "Tri color" walk in with a smile on her face one time that Jodi may have personalized then she (the juror) pivoted and looked forward to the well. But that's the closest thing I've ever seen to even resemble that. And I think it was probably accidental.

I rarely see them even looking at her, including when she was on the stand.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The story came from the waitress witness, not from Jodi.

Yes, but she was only telling what Jodi told her, and I thought it was that Jodi had told her the cat was left by the honeymooning couple, that's what I meant when I said it sounded like a lie; that the caller only had Jodi's version of events to go on, which were (knowing Jodi) less than accurate.

 

[katiecoolady]

BBM: I thought there was no court on Monday? I'm so confused now!

It's canceled next Monday. April 1.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

This is another thing that's making my head spin on these threads. This is a relatively standard intimate partner crime. None of the details are particularly shocking or unusual except that we've seen pics of private parts because they're the best evidence of presence at the crime scene and the religious aspect. Mormons doing un-Mormanlike things always makes the news here (see the bestiality couple I posted previously). Yeah, there were a bunch of stabs wounds. Compare it to the other case that Juan prosecuted with the rape and killing of a teen girl and the torture of her little brother in the presence of her restrained parents. THAT is sick. Manson's followers committed their crimes on complete strangers. They cut the fetus out of the stomach of a 9 month pregnant woman. Dahmer drilled holes into his victim's brain while he was alive and poured chemicals in there to see what would happen.

Jodi Arias isn't even slightly the worst criminal who's walked the face of the earth. Not even close. If she were to be out of prison tomorrow, I wouldn't worry myself about her in the slightest. jm

In your opinion, Jodi Arias did not murder Travis Alexander?

 

[neesaki]

There's no evidence of financial "success." I've posted before, his house was 90-100% financed at purchase (I think it was 100% but am too lazy to go back and look it up again just now) and was REfinanced shortly thereafter for another significant amount. This was common at the time and resulted in the collapse of the RE market and the foreclosure boom in AZ. The BMW came through PPL, imo, as was common practice. Just look at that ridiculous video of the Hughes' gushing over theirs. Sickening to me.

Imo, any financial "success" Travis had was on paper and he died before it came crashing down on most people in his situation in AZ -- of which there were plenty. PPL is a pyramid scheme with a farce of a "product" for the sole purpose of avoiding prosecution -- and it's still sued frequently for that reason in spite of the fiction. If he made money at it, he was making money on a scam, imo. Too bad Jodi was/is too stupid to see that. She probably wanted what Sky Hughes "has" :::eyeroll::: jmo

Re:the bolded: So you think this would have made a difference. Somehow miraculously changing JA from a stalking, obsessive-compulsive, rage-induced maniacal killer. Really?

 

[Karmady]

Yes, but she was only telling what Jodi told her, and I thought it was that Jodi had told her the cat was left by the honeymooning couple, that's what I meant when I said it sounded like a lie; that the caller only had Jodi's version of events to go on, which were (knowing Jodi) less than accurate.

I believe the couple was mutually known to them. Tomorrow, I'll go back and look at this. But I remember my conclusion at the time and I'm pretty good at not jumping to conclusions

 

[Allyne Smithe]

I have never seen this. Not even once. I did maybe see the juror we call "Tri color" walk in with a smile on her face one time that Jodi may have personalized then she (the juror) pivoted and looked forward to the well. But that's the closest thing I've ever seen to even resemble that. And I think it was probably accidental.

I rarely see them even looking at her, including when she was on the stand.

Tricolor is the juror some were buzzing about claiming to read Jodi's lips. They worried #5 is in JA's corner and were hoping she isn't one of the final 12.

I read that about two days ago. But it's out of our hands so I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[legalmania]

Nothing against your "friend", but this doc for the defense is an idiot and the jurors ALREADY know it...I just think that JM is going to NAIL HIM on Monday.

No one knows what the jurors are thinking. Working as a paralegal you can tell when someone is doing sloppy work. This doctor had plenty of time to retest, recheck and have his I's dotted and his T's crossed. I agree with my friend, if this doctor wanted everything to be perfect it would have been. Now why did he do such a bad job? He isn't new to the field.

 

[neesaki]

Yes, and if he was so financially "successful" via PPL, why did he have roommates?

Did Travis brag about being "financially successful?" Am I missing something?

 

[ctmom]

from earlier thread. HTH:

Originally Posted by gcharlie View Post
Hopefully, all of the confusion will be cleared on Monday. FWIW, I think this is where we stand right now:

Ex #534 (3/14)-yellow lined paper with raw data; per Dick, JA answered test questions and he wrote them down.

Ex #535 (3/14)- Copy of official PSD scoring sheet, hand scored by Dick using answers from JA. Only includes scoring by Dick, no raw data (answers). Dick must have left the full PSD scoring sheet on his desk; JM requests that it be brought to court. Test score for symptoms is 17.

Ex #550 (3/21)- JM produces complete PSD scoring sheet without hole punch marks. Test score for symptoms is 15, different from previous Ex. 535. Dick confirms at no point in time did he provide this to the defense.

Dick is confused...JM asks him for copy of complete raw data sheet. Dick looks through notebook and finds one with hole punches "musta been here the whole time". Gives it to JM who enters it for evidence (we don't have an exhibit number on this yet). Dick asks to be able to bring it home, Judge tell him to talk to Nurmi.

Soooo...something hinky is going on.

In spite of lawyers not being smart enought to understand raw data, JM latched onto something big with this "expert".

Ex #550 presumably came from Janeen DeMarte, the upcoming expert witness for the defense.

We already know that the scores on Ex #535 and #550 don't agree. But the real kicker is going to come on Monday when we will find out if the scores on the yet to be numbered exhibit is the same as #535 or #550 or new score and how that compares to the yellow answer sheet (Ex 534).

Careless or fraudulent?

Stayed tuned for the next episode...
THank you so much for this post. It does clear up a few things, and of course, brings up lots of new questions.

I feel like this is going to be a big thing because of the way Juan went about
it. I noticed his pattern seems to be to start the cross with something weird and off beat, to throw off the witness. He started JA off with the ' calling her sis dumb' accusation. That was very unexpected, and threw her off guard. But it was also emotional for her. Then suddenly after making her upset, he goes sideways into the gas cans.

He started the DR off with the compassion/sympathy definition, and got him all upset and self righteous, then suddenly pullled out this paper and BAM. The Doc looked very nervous, imo. And JW jumped out of her seat---end of court for the day.

It was smooth the way Juan took it right out of the doc's hand and said "lets mark this' and walked off with the paper. Very smooth. The doc seemed very concerned about getting that paper back. JMO
__________________
“Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

Yes, I too was impressed how Juan so eloquently lifted that pack of papers out of doc's hands. Doc looked like a dog who's off limits chicken bone was just taken away..

One correction to the above: Janeen DeMarte is the upcoming expert witness for the prosecution.

I'm a bit concerned with the news below:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/2...t-witness-in-arias-trial-has-home-burglarized

IMO
It is way too coincidental DeMarte's laptop with jodi's evaluation gets stolen Just last month... so close to her testifying. WAAAY TOO COINCIDENTAL!

 

[AlanCFA]

No court April 1st! There will be court this Monday:seeya:

No court on April 1st? Oh, that's right, April Fools Day is a religious holiday in JodiLand.

 

[Karmady]

Re:the bolded: So you think this would have made a difference. Somehow miraculously changing JA from a stalking, obsessive-compulsive, rage-induced maniacal killer. Really?

uh, yeah? Isn't the hypothesis that she wanted to be Mrs. Travis Alexander at all costs because he was so successful and amazing and when she was sure that wouldn't come to her she retaliated? Chortle if you will, but she's right when she says she didn't leave behind a trail of dead boyfriends -- "successful" or otherwise. There was something special about Travis, for sure.