long weekend break: discuss the latest here #114

[SunDawnn]

But if she ratted somebody out for premeditated murder, she would be ratting herself out as well.

I'm not saying there was somebody else involved with the actual murder, but for those who have suggested it, their reasoning isn't flawed when it comes to my limited knowledge. I don't know enough about all the details of the murder to know whether or not that theory has been proven to be impossible.

When the story teller is Jodi Arias, anything is possible.

Sure. Two intruders (MM and girlfriend) is absolutely possible.

The early photos of Travis and Jodi (and KY)?....might've been at gunpoint with MM holding the gun. Perhaps there was an earlier plan (to blackmail Travis with those photos because let's face it, Travis did NOT look happy even when flipping the peace sign. It almost looked forced) and they foiled that plan and decided to just kill him hence the deletion of photos?

Anything within this scope of reasoning is possible and I'm sure the Mesa LE thought this too but, they can't go on speculation. They have to go on tangible proof and that is, Jodi was there. So, that's where they've started and ended their story. And to me?...it's flawed or has many unanswered questions. As is the Defense.
But I am 99% certain she will be convicted of 1st degree murder if......the jurors don't get tainted by the media then...it will be a mistrial.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

I'm not sure what significance this has. ???

No significance at all beyond seeing something slightly different from what Detective Melendez (and almost every else) saw. Just curious exactly what she was doing there. Why is she raising his right arm? Imo it has to be just moments after she slit his throat. It's rare (thankfully) that the outside world gets a peek at a murderer in action.

 

[panthera]

She had left AZ but the nearest tower was in Kingman and that is where it registered from what Flores was saying.

OK, and thank you for the clarification. So she was in Nevada. Makes more sense now.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

All I think you're missing is this: She wanted to 'do him' in close with the knife right there in that shower. She was absolutely and irrevocably committed to it. That's the reason she dragged his dead body back and wedged it so precariously into that small space.

However, and she knew this, not only was there a significant size difference, but he had been working out. And he was also a trained wrestler. That's what the small gun was all about. Just in case...

But she had two things in her favor: The element of total surprise, and the fact that he wouldn't have hurt her even to save his own life. Which is what makes the DT's fabrications about TA's misogyny and physical abuse so reprehensible, and places them a very close second to the ridiculous pedophile claim in terms of their absurdity.

I think she wanted to use the knife because she wanted to murder him up close and personal. To feel his blood on her hands. Imo, she thought she HAD killed him with the knife but after she had slit his throat and was dragging him back to be put in the shower IMO she heard air escaping from his lungs as his body was shutting down. It was then she shot him in the head thinking he was still alive in the area where the bullet casing landed. Imo Travis was dead when the gun was fired into his forehead.

I have read cases where multiple weapons have been used before or two different methods. Some have beaten then shot the victim. Some have used a knife and gun just like Arias did. These are overkills just like her murderous acts are.

In Robert Towery's (Az death penalty case) a gun was brought to the victim's home but was not fired.

Towery first tied up his victim and injected him with battery acid and when he didn't die fast enough he strangled him.

Towery told Jones that he was going to give him injections with something that would make him sleep. Towery then injected Jones with battery acid. Jones was not struggling because he trusted Towery. Towery then sought to strangle Jones to death. When the first try failed, he tried again and succeeded.

http://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/towery-robert.htm


Also in the Wendi Andriano (Az. DP case) she poisoned her victim then she bludgeoned him in the head over 20 times with a steel pipe. Oh and she also claimed self defense and abuse and sits on DR and Towery has been executed.

IMO

 

[Juli]

I have faith in Flores when he says there was no evidence pointing to anyone else found in the home. There is also proof she spoke to Matt (he was in CA) as soon as she got to the Nevada border and turned on her phone.

Thank you. I did hear Flores say in the interrogation tapes that there was no evidence pointing to anyone else found in the home, but that was so early in the investigation that I didn't know if he was just saying it to get a confession and/or if that conclusion by Flores ever changed.

I didn't know there was proof she actually spoke to Matt (and not just somebody on his phone) when she crossed the border.

Thanks for the information - it's helpful, but I didn't want to give the impression that I was suggesting MM was in on the murder - I think the two conversations may have mistakenly given that impression. Hypothetically speaking, I was just answering the question that if another person was involved, there is no way, imo, that JA would rat them out because she would be ratting herself out as well.

I am, however, suggesting that it appears as though MM attempted to help JA cover things up. What I'd like to know is how he knew to look for that coded message in the magazine unless he was helping her lie, and if so, why?

If MM turned that magazine over to officials, that would lead me to believe he wasn't helping her.

Does anybody know how that magazine got from MM to authorities?

 

[borndem]

I think their whole purpose is to yammer, yammer, yammer and distract attention from the horrible vicious crime. I trust the majority of JM closing will be to focus on that atrocious event.

Good point, 'green -- If I were doing the closing, I would want to show those awful pics of poor TA again -- bloody & down, the autopsy shots of his legs, his back & neck and his chest, of his dead body after she had thrown his dead/dying body back into the shower like a soiled towel, & of course the one of his throat. "You know JA did this -- she admitted she did. This man & his family deserve justice that only the twelve of you can deliver. For all that is holy, please give him, his family the only justice that is left -- find Jodi Arias guilty of 1st Degree Murder. Thank you very much."

But would showing those pics one more time be too much? I think he has to do it. JMHO.

Thoughts?

 

[LambChop]

Men are more logical. Women, more emotional. We want left brain thinkers not right brain because Jodi is now playing the victim role (after changing it from the 2 attacker story ----2 years later)

There should be a statute of limitations on your 'story' or at least, 2 strikes and you're out. She changed it 3 times.

Also, in the day in age of gidgets and gadgets, jurors should be mandated to sequestering for murder trials. When they wrote the laws, the Pony Express was still a novelty.
Now?...you can't avoid the news especially high-profile cases like this so this Judge screwed up right from the start (I don't care for Judge Sharon at all. The way she bobs her head concerns me)

Why would they be sequestered? This jury is getting all their information from court. They don't have to turn on their TV at night and get all that misinformation. They are trusted to do the right thing. When juror's are sequestered they feel as if they are the ones in prison and all they want to do at the end is go home. We saw that in Florida. This jury goes home every night and has a long weekend every week. As for the judge, she basically is there to make sure Jodi gets a fair trial, that council behaves themselves. I think she has done a pretty good job up to this point. She does not have to be a JM, we already have one like him. lol Her job is to keep them in line and hear their objections and rule on their motions. She is suppose to be unbiased. I think so far she has done her job. jmo

 

[SunDawnn]

originally posted by Sundawnn~
"If you insert MM and perhaps his girlfriend (the two intruders) this whole event makes so much more sense. Right down to her reactions in the interrogation room."

Watching the entirety of the unedited interrogation tapes was very enlightening and has really swayed me into thinking she had at least one accomplice. I thought it was interesting that she even mentioned going into his closet as part of the ninja story. I wonder if when she realized the gunshot didn't kill him and a knife was needed, maybe the girl ninja did the stabbing and JA went into the closet because she couldn't watch and maybe that's why she was so curious to see all the photos.

Khaki, you are my new best friend on here :great: because I thought the interrogation tapes (all 8 hours) were very telling too and I can't shake the feeling that she wasn't alone either.

Because why the HELL would Travis want to boink her after all those texts and emails? He was DONE with her. She's not THAT irresistible. And I can't imagine he was THAT horny!!

I think Jodi was calling him en route to nonchalantly get his itinerary/schedule for that day so she could ambush him.

It looked like she wanted so much to tell a story to Flores but she knew if she did then it would be life in prison. So she was thinking and thinking and thinking how to gracefully get out of this and still have her.....be in the picture.

I think the camera being found was a huge surprise to her.

She wanted to see the photos to see what wounds were inflicted because perhaps she didn't do all the killing!!
Maybe she paid MM and his girlfriend.

I want to know if Travis' money was gone because in the tape she did mention on a few occasions how it might've been a robbery and that Travis kept his money in his wallet. Funny thing to mention when there's someone dead.

 

[Truth Detector]

Good point, 'green -- If I were doing the closing, I would want to show those awful pics of poor TA again -- bloody & down, the autopsy shots of his legs, his back & neck and his chest, of his dead body after she had thrown his dead/dying body back into the shower like a soiled towel, & of course the one of his throat. "You know JA did this -- she admitted she did. This man & his family deserve justice that only the twelve of you can deliver. For all that is holy, please give him, his family the only justice that is left -- find Jodi Arias guilty of 1st Degree Murder. Thank you very much."

But would showing those pics one more time be too much? I think he has to do it. JMHO.

Thoughts?

He must. He can warn the family ahead of time, but those images need to be seared into the minds of the jury.

When they go back to deliberate, that evidence should be on the top of the stack.

 

[Dmacky]

originally posted by Sundawnn~
"If you insert MM and perhaps his girlfriend (the two intruders) this whole event makes so much more sense. Right down to her reactions in the interrogation room."

Watching the entirety of the unedited interrogation tapes was very enlightening and has really swayed me into thinking she had at least one accomplice. I thought it was interesting that she even mentioned going into his closet as part of the ninja story. I wonder if when she realized the gunshot didn't kill him and a knife was needed, maybe the girl ninja did the stabbing and JA went into the closet because she couldn't watch and maybe that's why she was so curious to see all the photos.

I don't believe for a minute she had an a accomplice. That Ninja story in part came from the det.'s asking her if someone was with her. Plus at one time I think when JA was talking on the phone to Flores, he mentioned there might that there may have been more than one murderer. The seed was planted there, IMO

 

[Nhic]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but are there actual pictures of Travis and JA having sex on the day she butchered him?

No, I don't want to see them LOL, just wondering if there is proof?

 

[SunDawnn]

Why would they be sequestered? This jury is getting all their information from court. They don't have to turn on their TV at night and get all that misinformation. They are trusted to do the right thing. When juror's are sequestered they feel as if they are the ones in prison and all they want to do at the end is go home. We saw that in Florida. This jury goes home every night and has a long weekend every week. As for the judge, she basically is there to make sure Jodi gets a fair trial, that council behaves themselves. I think she has done a pretty good job up to this point. She does not have to be a JM, we already have one like him. lol Her job is to keep them in line and hear their objections and rule on their motions. She is suppose to be unbiased. I think so far she has done her job. jmo

They can't get a loaf of bread without seeing the tabloids at the checkout stand. So it's not just TV.
And god forbid their spouse/lover or family member has CNN on in the den. They'd overhear "Bombshell! Jodi Arias is in trouble on the stand...." or something like that.
They need to be sequestered. I'm not saying they won't do the right thing but it's a different time than it was in 1776!!

 

[LambChop]

You know what I'd really like to see JM do when he gets up for his cross of ALV. Ask her one question: "Ms. LV, everything that you have just testified to could also apply to a male if he were a victim as you have described, isn't that correct?" When she answers, which would be a yes.....JM says, "No other questions." BAM. No re-cross. What can JW possibly say????

 

[Truth Detector]

Men are more logical. Women, more emotional. We want left brain thinkers not right brain because Jodi is now playing the victim role (after changing it from the 2 attacker story ----2 years later)

There should be a statute of limitations on your 'story' or at least, 2 strikes and you're out. She changed it 3 times.

Also, in the day in age of gidgets and gadgets, jurors should be mandated to sequestering for murder trials. When they wrote the laws, the Pony Express was still a novelty.
Now?...you can't avoid the news especially high-profile cases like this so this Judge screwed up right from the start (I don't care for Judge Sharon at all. The way she bobs her head concerns me)

I don't criticize Judge Stephens much anymore after being slapped down by other WS'ers.

Now, I just summon her help.

Please, Sherry K., could you take control of the court back from the DT for the remainder of this trial?

Travis and the Arizona taxpayers would appreciate it.

Thank you.

 

[Dmacky]

They can't get a loaf of bread without seeing the tabloids at the checkout stand. So it's not just TV.
And god forbid their spouse/lover or family member has CNN on in the den. They'd overhear "Bombshell! Jodi Arias is in trouble on the stand...." or something like that.
They need to be sequestered. I'm not saying they won't do the right thing but it's a different time than it was in 1776!!

I thought that too, but neither one of my sisters or ANY of my friends have heard anything about her! I guess they don't watch HLN, or much TV at all. Everyone I have mentioned to that I am obsessed with the JA trial have said the same thing. Who is JA?

 

[SunDawnn]

I don't believe for a minute she had an a accomplice. That Ninja story in part came from the det.'s asking her if someone was with her. Plus at one time I think when JA was talking on the phone to Flores, he mentioned there might that there may have been more than one murderer. The seed was planted there, IMO

The whole concept of Jodi acting alone with the brutality in which they found Travis' condition, puzzled everyone. So please don't say that didn't cross any ones mind. They did NOT know she acted alone. How could they?

Jodi comes off so meek, mild and well-mannered. It took time to see who she really is. But in July 2008, the cops didn't know squat except...Jodi was involved and from others, a possible stalker. That doesn't negate that she might've had help.

For them to eliminate accomplices would've been extremely unprofessional and a disservice to Travis. They had to consider EVERYTHING and everybody.

 

[dani]

I tend to always think outside the proverbial box so...while this murder totally consumes my mind....I had a thought.

We all agree Jodi Ann Arias is a very cunning, calculating and conniving murderess who planned on killing Travis that day, right? Riiiiiiiight! (in my Juan voice). We're just not sure of the specifics like: would his life had been spared if he agreed to take her to Cancun etc. But putting that aside, it appears Jodi gave this 'potential' murder some thought regardless which included; gas cans, gun, no cell phone pings and no paper trace.

Now, what constantly keeps crossing my mind is WHY the knife? I mean, if she indeed stole (or had someone *see: Matt* steal) the gun and brought it with her.....why use a knife?

I've heard suggestions that she didn't want to call attention to the neighbors etc. But that idea doesn't bode well with me because she must've thought that out for that couldn't have been an epiphany. So...............here's my 'out of the box' thought.

Could Jodi have used two weapons to make it APPEAR there were two intruders involved?
Because honestly, nothing else makes thorough sense. You don't bring a gun across two/three states only to use a knife that MIGHT or might not do the trick.

The only other explanation that makes sense (sort of) is, the gun jammed. But then, if she got the knife from wherever; downstairs to the kitchen or if the knife was upstairs, that would entail MORE time.

The photos show there was only 62 seconds from ceiling photo to bloody photo. I don't think Jodi or any novice murderer would think to have a 'back-up' weapon on them. I think we'd all be pretty confident that a fire arm is going to work properly.
So...why the knife??

Your thoughts?

When Jodi was packing for her "camping trip" (actually, her great escape) in the 2nd rental car, she had two knives packed in the box of books and a gun was later found hidden in the engine compartment. My thoughts are that's the way Jodi rolls, with a knife or two and a gun. After all, she did have a knife to slash the tires.

I think she planned to use the knife on Travis if one of the roommates was home so there wouldn't be any noise from the gun. :twocents:

 

[mollyf]

Thank you. I did hear Flores say in the interrogation tapes that there was no evidence pointing to anyone else found in the home, but that was so early in the investigation that I didn't know if he was just saying it to get a confession and/or if that conclusion by Flores ever changed.

I didn't know there was proof she actually spoke to Matt (and not just somebody on his phone) when she crossed the border.

Thanks for the information - it's helpful, but I didn't want to give the impression that I was suggesting MM was in on the murder - I think the two conversations may have mistakenly given that impression. Hypothetically speaking, I was just answering the question that if another person was involved, there is no way, imo, that JA would rat them out because she would be ratting herself out as well.

I am, however, suggesting that it appears as though MM attempted to help JA cover things up. What I'd like to know is how he knew to look for that coded message in the magazine unless he was helping her lie, and if so, why?

If MM turned that magazine over to officials, that would lead me to believe he wasn't helping her.

Does anybody know how that magazine got from MM to authorities?

It never got to MM. The folks at the jail caught it easily. There's an interesting clip on YouTube of Jodi's testimony about the system in jail of getting things into and out of jail.

ETA: starts at about 3:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PboeQxoY3o

 

[TexMex]

Thank you. I did hear Flores say in the interrogation tapes that there was no evidence pointing to anyone else found in the home, but that was so early in the investigation that I didn't know if he was just saying it to get a confession and/or if that conclusion by Flores ever changed.

I didn't know there was proof she actually spoke to Matt (and not just somebody on his phone) when she crossed the border.

Thanks for the information - it's helpful, but I didn't want to give the impression that I was suggesting MM was in on the murder - I think the two conversations may have mistakenly given that impression. Hypothetically speaking, I was just answering the question that if another person was involved, there is no way, imo, that JA would rat them out because she would be ratting herself out as well.

I am, however, suggesting that it appears as though MM attempted to help JA cover things up. What I'd like to know is how he knew to look for that coded message in the magazine unless he was helping her lie, and if so, why?

If MM turned that magazine over to officials, that would lead me to believe he wasn't helping her.

Does anybody know how that magazine got from MM to authorities?

It's amazing how she keeps these exes on a string. MM definitely was helping her and I think she may have confessed to him that first call (telling him some abuse or pedohile story?).

Remember when Darryl was on the stand, Martinez asked him if he had received a call from Jodi telling him her friend Travis was dead and she had no alibi...

I don't think the magazines ever made it out of the jail...but not positive on that.

 

[khaki]

originally posted by Tex~
"I have faith in Flores when he says there was no evidence pointing to anyone else found in the home. There is also proof she spoke to Matt (he was in CA) as soon as she got to the Nevada border and turned on her phone.
"

I have faith in Flores too, that there was noevidence of anyone else in the home, but maybe MM and other accomplice had gloves, and weren't there long. (JA went on at lentght in the interrogation interviews about how she would have warn gloves if she did this...odd to bring that up unless golves on the accomplices were part of the premeditation. She knew she could explain her prints, etc becasue she had been there so much. Asfar as calling MM when she was near Nevada border, we know where her phone pinged from, but do we know where MM's pinged from? Maybe they left they scene heading in different directions-him back toCA, and her to Utah. She couldn't turn on her phone to call anyone till she was out of AZ and by that time, MM could have already been back in CA.