MA - Aaron Hernandez, New England Patriots player, charged with homicides #6

[turaj]

In the chat in WildAboutTrial, locals said it was usually done that way in Mass trials. The judges routinely pick the foreperson, so the jurors can begin immediately deliberating. They do so by looking at job skills etc that would make someone a good foreperson. I saw this woman on linked in, and I think the judge made a great choice. Too bad he blew it now though...lol

yes same thing happened in AH first trial Garsh picked the person...I remember being shocked but that is totally the norm but not announcing her name on air

 

[LyndyLoo]

I found it. It's at the end of jury instructions at 1:42:45

[video=youtube;dh7B2wJ4F7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh7B2wJ4F7U[/video]

And her name hasn't been bleeped out

Thanks so much... ullhair:
:what:
:sheesh:

 

[turaj]

So this is what happened first, during the charge hearing:


Travis Andersen‏Verified account @TAGlobe 6h6 hours ago
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Sullivan: choice has racial overtones prejudicial to #AaronHernandez

Travis Andersen‏Verified account @TAGlobe 6h6 hours ago
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Sullivan: object to choosing that particular juror this court "chose 1 of 2 white women" to be foreperson but jury diverse #AaronHernandez

Laurel J. Sweet‏Verified account @Laurel_Sweet 6h6 hours ago
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Locke has already chosen a foreperson - a white woman - unbeknownst to the jury.
#AaronHernandez


Cathy‏ @courtchatter 5h5 hours ago
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Cathy Retweeted Laurel J. Sweet
This is something we see in Massachusetts trials, the judge chooses the foreperson. #AaronHernandez



It was not until later that the judge slipped up with the jurors name:

Travis Andersen‏Verified account
@TAGlobe

jury coming back in 5 mins #AaronHernandez


Cathy‏ @courtchatter 5h5 hours ago
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#AaronHernandez - Jury instructions to start any minute. They will take about 1 1/2 hrs.

Travis Andersen‏Verified account @TAGlobe 5h5 hours ago
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Locke back jury back #AaronHernandez

Delores Handy‏ @deloreshandy 3h3 hours ago
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#AaronHernandez listens as judge reads jury instructions. Finally over after more than hour.
weet

Christina Hager‏Verified account @HagerWBZ 3h3 hours ago
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Judge just appointed white woman as jury foreperson...something the defense had raised concerns about earlier today. #AaronHernandez #wbz


jada cupcake‏ @jaybee718 3h3 hours ago
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#aaronhernandez did he just say her name?

i feel like judge made them delete all of this just can't find

 

[turaj]

I found it. It's at the end of jury instructions at 1:42:45

[video=youtube;dh7B2wJ4F7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh7B2wJ4F7U[/video]

And her name hasn't been bleeped out

finally...and any clue where it is that Baez complains?

 

[BUF]

Here is where Sullivan wanted the mistrial on these:

Sullivan: again objecting to tat evidence says no case in MA ever allowed tat to come in as admission

Sullivan: Haggan use of "red herring " is improper constitutes reversible error

Sullivan: choice has racial overtones prejudicial to #AaronHernandez

Sullivan: object to choosing that particular juror this court "chose 1 of 2 white women" to be foreperson but jury diverse

Sullivan: that is constitutional error of the first order [move for mistrial based on tat prejudice red herring comment white 4-person ...
..... & ignoring instruction re: red lines Locke: motion for mistrial denied

Bringing this forward

 

[turaj]

That's why I think he may have done it on purpose. JMO

gotta wonder but at this point he needs to just dismiss her.

 

[katydid23]

finally...and any clue where it is that Baez complains?

Baez doesn't complain---SULLIVAN does. Early on in the charge hearing, while jurors are out. He starts by saying they have some objections to list...

 

[LyndyLoo]

finally...and any clue where it is that Baez complains?

Good question.. however, in filing for appeal.. all they have to do is point to the final minutes of the Jury Instructions to make their point.. and IF that juror suffers any damages from it will compound the issue in any appellate court!!

I have to believe he will ( sure the ADA will also give their advice too this evening) rectify it in the morning!! This very well could have been on purpose or a subconscious slip of the tongue. He should have known better!!

Just as aside.. Wonder what the Judge who came in this morning as a "Newbie (being mentored by Judge Locke) will learn from this??? Talk about a HEAD SMACK!!!

 

[turaj]

Good question.. however, in filing for appeal.. all they have to do is point to the final minutes of the Jury Instructions to make their point.. and IF that juror suffers any damages from it will compound the issue in any appellate court!!

I have to believe he will ( sure the ADA will also give their advice too this evening) rectify it in the morning!! This very well could have been on purpose or a subconscious slip of the tongue. He should have known better!!

Just as aside.. Wonder what the Judge who came in this morning as a "Newbie (being mentored by Judge Locke) will learn from this??? Talk about a HEAD SMACK!!!

This might be a routine mistake is some other trials but this one is about the worst for something like this...apart from AH and his ****s etc. so much precaution was taken incuding the bus he mentions that must take them to their parking and I recall once a cameraman showed a reflection of some jurors and judge locke shut the cameras and really seem to take a reflection seriously. A reflection is far less than announcing the person you intend to lead the jurors to a verdict!!!

 

[katydid23]

Good question.. however, in filing for appeal.. all they have to do is point to the final minutes of the Jury Instructions to make their point.. and IF that juror suffers any damages from it will compound the issue in any appellate court!!

I have to believe he will ( sure the ADA will also give their advice too this evening) rectify it in the morning!! This very well could have been on purpose or a subconscious slip of the tongue. He should have known better!!

Just as aside.. Wonder what the Judge who came in this morning as a "Newbie (being mentored by Judge Locke) will learn from this??? Talk about a HEAD SMACK!!!

It is just really hard for me to believe that THIS judge, who is such a stickler for details, and so PROPER, would 'accidentally' say a juror's name on camera.

I have to believe he did it strategically, because the Defense was going to pressure him forever, on the racial issue. That sounded like a very APPEALABLE issue down the road.

If he replaces her now, that issue is gone. And he does not have to bow to that pressure or 'admit' to any kind of racial discrimination stuff.

 

[turaj]

It is just really hard for me to believe that THIS judge, who is such a stickler for details, and so PROPER, would 'accidentally' say a juror's name on camera.

I have to believe he did it strategically, because the Defense was going to pressure him forever, on the racial issue. That sounded like a very APPEALABLE issue down the road.

If he replaces her now, that issue is gone. And he does not have to bow to that pressure or 'admit' to any kind of racial discrimination stuff.

you may well be right but this is really just another strange twist in a strange trial...one look at her profile on line it is clear he picked her as being able to manage all the details including multiple charges and some extensive instructions...also maybe observed her interaction with fellow jurors and therefore if she is dismissed tomorrow jury loses a good juror . And then is he going to pick a non white person in her place to avoid this again. That sure does not seem right. Boy this is puzzling.

 

[katydid23]

you may well be right but this is really just another strange twist in a strange trial...one look at her profile on line it is clear he picked her as being able to manage all the details including multiple charges and some extensive instructions...also maybe observed her interaction with fellow jurors and therefore if she is dismissed tomorrow jury loses a good juror . And then is he going to pick a non white person in her place to avoid this again. That sure does not seem right. Boy this is puzzling.

Yes, those are the definite downsides. It is going to be embarrassing and disruptive for him to have to mitigate this 'mistake' he made on LIVE tv.

But if this high profile, PR savvy Defense team, headed by Baez, the circus master, went to all of the media, accusing this judge of being racially discriminating, and demanding a new trial because of his PREJUDICE and racial insensitivity etc, Judge Locke would be living a nightmare. And the verdict could be overturned. I think that potential future reality was beginning to worry him. An hour later, he had an instant way out.

So it was the lesser of two evils, imo.

 

[turaj]

wow just listened to Sullivan and his objections during charging conference...I really agree with him on the choosing of the foreperson before alternates before learning alternates....just does not seem right....if the jury is mostly racially diverse not sure judge did the best thing here...just not sure. And that tattoo admission will haunt him upon appeal if it should go that way. He is visibly irritated with Sullivan and the defense and has been for most of the trial. I know he is a very popular judge with most of the trial watchers but I have had some reservations about him and today really thought he was off. They came back and he could still have changed his choice of foreperson or procedure with alternates but chose not to. I have to wonder if he has clerks researching right now to see if he should use the name revelation as his out here.

 

[turaj]

Yes, those are the definite downsides. It is going to be embarrassing and disruptive for him to have to mitigate this 'mistake' he made on LIVE tv.

But if this high profile, PR savvy Defense team, headed by Baez, the circus master, went to all of the media, accusing this judge of being racially discriminating, and demanding a new trial because of his PREJUDICE and racial insensitivity etc, Judge Locke would be living a nightmare. And the verdict could be overturned. I think that potential future reality was beginning to worry him. An hour later, he had an instant way out.

So it was the lesser of two evils, imo.

also we cannot rule out this juror going to him. it is not a good situation at all for her now...boy would I have my door locked tonight. I think there will be a delay getting started tomorrow. I noted the judge rolling his eyes when Sullivan played the race card but in a way he should have seen that coming...not his first trial. I hate to see this trial clogging up the system with legal wrangling for years to come over this stuff.

 

[katydid23]

also we cannot rule out this juror going to him. it is not a good situation at all for her now...boy would I have my door locked tonight. I think there will be a delay getting started tomorrow. I noted the judge rolling his eyes when Sullivan played the race card but in a way he should have seen that coming...not his first trial. I hate to see this trial clogging up the system with legal wrangling for years to come over this stuff.

Yep, I would be frightened to go home if I were her. Lots of creepers could find her address.

I think he did roll his eyes. And probably because he chose this juror because of her professional skills. I think he thought he was doing the right thing in terms of getting someone who could wrangle all of the jurors into working together cohesively.

But he didn't think of the ramifications that Baez and company were going to bring forth.

 

[katydid23]

wow just listened to Sullivan and his objections during charging conference...I really agree with him on the choosing of the foreperson before alternates before learning alternates....just does not seem right....if the jury is mostly racially diverse not sure judge did the best thing here...just not sure. And that tattoo admission will haunt him upon appeal if it should go that way. He is visibly irritated with Sullivan and the defense and has been for most of the trial. I know he is a very popular judge with most of the trial watchers but I have had some reservations about him and today really thought he was off. They came back and he could still have changed his choice of foreperson or procedure with alternates but chose not to. I have to wonder if he has clerks researching right now to see if he should use the name revelation as his out here.

But to be fair to the judge, that is the way it is usually done in Mass. This judge did not do it differently than others do. He followed the same protocol. They choose one juror, then the rest are put in the pool for alternates.

 

[Rocco]

Yes, those are the definite downsides. It is going to be embarrassing and disruptive for him to have to mitigate this 'mistake' he made on LIVE tv.

But if this high profile, PR savvy Defense team, headed by Baez, the circus master, went to all of the media, accusing this judge of being racially discriminating, and demanding a new trial because of his PREJUDICE and racial insensitivity etc, Judge Locke would be living a nightmare. And the verdict could be overturned. I think that potential future reality was beginning to worry him. An hour later, he had an instant way out.

So it was the lesser of two evils, imo.

I guess we'll never know if he did it on purpose or not but IF he did-----what a nasty nasty nasty thing to do to that juror, in so many ways. Just thinking about it makes me grouchy.

 

[katydid23]

I guess we'll never know if he did it on purpose or not but IF he did-----what a nasty nasty nasty thing to do to that juror, in so many ways. Just thinking about it makes me grouchy.

I don't know. He might be doing her a favor. If Baez was going to use her as the media figure head for a White Privilege icon---and use her as an example of racial discrimination against the other jurors---and years and years of upcoming court battles with HER as the example---ugh.

I think she is in a better position if she is removed quickly and simply, through no fault of her own. No one will have a beef with her about it at all.

He threw himself under the bus instead. Having to admit to making a horribly STUPID mistake on live feed camera, forcing him to remove an innocent juror.

I really feel that he was backed into a corner by Baez. And the judge did a quick game changing move. I don't really have a problem with it. JMO

 

[Rocco]

I don't know. He might be doing her a favor. If Baez was going to use her as the media figure head for a White Privilege icon---and use her as an example of racial discrimination against the other jurors---and years and years of upcoming court battles with HER as the example---ugh.

I think she is in a better position if she is removed quickly and simply, through no fault of her own. No one will have a beef with her about it at all.

He threw himself under the bus instead. Having to admit to making a horribly STUPID mistake on live feed camera, forcing him to remove an innocent juror.

I really feel that he was backed into a corner by Baez. And the judge did a quick game changing move. I don't really have a problem with it. JMO

If he had second thoughts and felt it might be a problem, he had other options. He could have had a side bar with the attorneys and said " After further thought and to avoid any problems,I'm changing the way I usually deal with the selection of a foreperson in this case. I have decided to let the jurors pick a foreperson after the alternates have been selected" and then instruct the jurors of his decision. I don't think Mass. law requires judges to select the foreperson, I think it's an option.

Or----he could have selected another foreperson and announced that person's seat number (not name) at the end of his instructions.

The option he chose makes him look like and idiot and was a rotten thing to do to the female juror.

What if he doesn't correct this tomorrow morning?

 

[turaj]

If he had second thoughts and felt it might be a problem, he had other options. He could have had a side bar with the attorneys and said " After further thought and to avoid any problems,I'm changing the way I usually deal with the selection of a foreperson in this case. I have decided to let the jurors pick a foreperson after the alternates have been selected" and then instruct the jurors of his decision. I don't think Mass. law requires judges to select the foreperson, I think it's an option.

Or----he could have selected another foreperson and announced that person's seat number (not name) at the end of his instructions.

The option he chose makes him look like and idiot and was a rotten thing to do to the female juror.

What if he doesn't correct this tomorrow morning?

yes given that he announced this not in the presence of the jury and received immediate feedback from Sullivan it could have been seemless to just either pick someone else or let them pick...I doubt it is mandated that he pick the person...I think everyone would have been okay with that...if he really did this name on purpose what an awful way out. I have a feeling things are just going to proceed tomorrow morning without any word from him and if he does take action it may in fact be a result of the juror requesting a remedy.