GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #2

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  • #241
OMG, I wish I hand't been out of pocket all day. Brain imaging was my area of research. Brain volume as measured on MRIs can be sort of suggestive of a lot of things, but it is definitely not something that should be used to prosecute or exonerate a defendant. It's fine for averaging across individuals to make inferences about groups of people, but it is not a tool with enough precision to say anything about one individual. OMG, I can't believe it's gotten to the point where some judges are allowing it as evidence. Brain volume is not in the same league as DNA.

Plus... let the jurors make the schizophrenia diagnosis? OMG, I can't believe the defense attorney even tried that.
 
  • #242
AnaTeresa said:
Volumetric analysis may be accepted as a research tool, but as far as I know, not as a diagnostic tool.

And if Chism had a substantial traumatic brain injury, there are actual specialists in that field who would meet with him to put him through a battery of tests to determine how much that TBI impacted his ability to act rationally. I handled a case that involved a TBI, and the testing for that is a full day or two of personality assessments and the like, not just imaging. It's quite thorough and I feel like if Chism truly had a TBI and impulsivity issues, the defense would have an expert here testifying about it. The fact that they don't is telling. :twocents:

ETA: If he did have a TBI, he would have had a forensic examination by a clinical neuropsychologist. Here's a good article detailing what that would entail. http://www.div40.org/pdf/NeuropscyhBroch2.pdf

ETA2: Skigirl can probably talk about this far better than I can. Skigirl, are you here?
Click to expand...

I wish I'd been here today. The above is totally correct. Volumetric measurements are a pretty blunt tool and nice for research where you're averaging across individuals in separate groups, for example, 50 psychopaths and 50 normals and comparing the groups' averages, but not at all close to being ready for this sort of thing where you are looking at one individual. Regional and overall brain volumes in normal healthy people vary HUGELY and so you would have to have thousands of brain volumes collected with exactly the same protocol and analyzed in exactly the same way to rule out that the one individual of interest is in or out of the normal range.

TBI is usually very hard to see on an MRI because it can often result in lots of diffuse damage all over the place, not one big obvious lesion, like a brain tumor or a stroke. Some types of TBI involve pretty obvious damage to the frontal lobes, but there are plenty of more sensitive neuropsych tests that are better at sussing out TBI than MRI is. And Ana is correct that you would want a full assessment encompassing personality/mental disorder and cognition.

ETA: Volumetric measurements are really hard to do in practice. It involves basically looking at different brain structures on an MRI drawing a circle around them, and computing the volume. It is very hard to decide where one brain structure ends and another begins, and agreements between even very highly trained individuals is pretty poor. Since volumetric measurements either rely on a human to do that or a computer algorithm (which at least are consistent but don't always come up with the right answer), there is at least as much art to volumetric measurements as there is science. That is, unless you're talking about whole brain volumes, which is very straightforward but not very informative.
 
  • #243
Final thought before bed: Schizophrenia is pretty damn easy to diagnose when it's truly schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is not subtle. If he is schizophrenic, you don't need MRI volumetric measurements. You just need to do a SCID (structured clinical interview). It is not rocket science and it's been clinically validated. Sounds like the defense didn't like the answers that the SCID provided, especially since it provided the answer that his psychosis was a transient episode brought on by trial stress. :tantrum:
 
  • #244
As someone who works with severely emotionally disabled youth in an academic setting (not verified), I think the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court's decision to strike down life without parole as a possibility for juveniles is a good thing (based on the idea that the brain is not fully developed until a person is in his 20's).

I think (and this is only a guess/my personal opinion) that Philip
Chism's recent "breakdowns" (specifically his initial refusal to participate in his trial when the recycling bin was being introduced) are proof that his brain was not fully developed when the crime occurred. Now at 16, two years later, he is able to more fully comprehend the gravity of what he did, and he's finding it unbearable. I don't think this means he shouldn't serve time/face retribution. I just think it may be a factor in his behavior now as opposed to 2 years ago. I do think the potential for a personality disorder is strong as well, given his family history.

From the court ruling regarding youth being sentenced without possibility of parole:

“Simply put, because the brain of a juvenile is not fully developed, either structurally or functionally, by the age of eighteen, a judge cannot find with confidence that a particular offender, at that point in time, is irretrievably depraved,” the court wrote. “Therefore, it follows that the judge cannot ascertain, with any reasonable degree of certainty, whether imposition of this most severe punishment is warranted.”
 
  • #245
trixandhoney said:
As someone who works with severely emotionally disabled youth in an academic setting (not verified), I think the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court's decision to strike down life without parole as a possibility for juveniles is a good thing (based on the idea that the brain is not fully developed until a person is in his 20's).

I think (and this is only a guess/my personal opinion) that Philip
Chism's recent "breakdowns" (specifically his initial refusal to participate in his trial when the recycling bin was being introduced) are proof that his brain was not fully developed when the crime occurred. Now at 16, two years later, he is able to more fully comprehend the gravity of what he did, and he's finding it unbearable. I don't think this means he shouldn't serve time/face retribution. I just think it may be a factor in his behavior now as opposed to 2 years ago. I do think the potential for a personality disorder is strong as well, given his family history.

From the court ruling regarding youth being sentenced without possibility of parole:

“Simply put, because the brain of a juvenile is not fully developed, either structurally or functionally, by the age of eighteen, a judge cannot find with confidence that a particular offender, at that point in time, is irretrievably depraved,” the court wrote. “Therefore, it follows that the judge cannot ascertain, with any reasonable degree of certainty, whether imposition of this most severe punishment is warranted.”
Click to expand...

Yep. The frontal lobes aren't even completely developed until the mid twenties, and then the whole process starts to reverse with the frontal lobes declines correlating at about .6 with age. It's actually very depressing to me that I'm stupider now than I was right after I graduated from college :-(. (oh well, at least I'm wiser in that I'm not still dating losers).
 
  • #246
  • #247
  • #248
Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 7m7 minutes ago
#PhilipChism trial about to get started. Defense continues today with expert witness on mental state.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 6m6 minutes ago
#PhilipChism mom is in the courtroom, sitting in her usual spot

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 5m5 minutes ago
Colleen Ritzer parents have arrived in court

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 39s39 seconds ago
Court back in session.
 
  • #249
Thanks for that info, Skigirl!

And thanks once again for fantastic coverage, jacct!
 
  • #250
Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 54s55 seconds ago
First the defense has "a number of preliminary matters" before Dudley takes stand.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Defense is asking for another 15 mins for its expert to read mental health evaluations of #PhilipChism

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Judge said, lets reward jury for being on time and lets not make them wait. Lay your foundation, then we can break.

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
#PhilipChism is back in court after waiving his right to be present yesterday.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Jury is in courtroom. It sounds like Lowy will great them and then send out for a bit to handle a defense motion

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
Judge: by the end of the day, he'll have a real sense of when they'll be a deliberating jury.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
Judge Lowy tells jury if they come on in and out of the courtroom a lot today, that's normal. He suggests conversation topics.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 41s42 seconds ago
Defense calls Dudley. He is a veteran of several high profile cases including Long Island railroad shooting

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
As Dr. Dudley is sworn in, #PhilipChism appears to be reading documents at defense table. Other days he just looks down.
 
  • #251
Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
 Defense attorney Denise Regan asking Dudley about his background, qualifications

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
At Chicago Mental Health Center, Dr. Dudley oversaw juvenile program. patients were 13/14 years old to HS grads.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 41s41 seconds ago Salem, MA
#PhilipChism defense atty Regan spending time establishing Dudley's high credentials.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
Regan asks him about the DSM, a handbook for diagnosing disorders.

Still going over his credentials, he has a long and distinguished career.
 
  • #252
Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
 Regan now asking him about his teaching experience

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
Regan is emphasizing Dudley's work with children/adolescents. She needs to show he's qualified to testify about #PhilipChism

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Dudley testifying about providing psychiatric evaluations to past patients. He also taught at NYU law school

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
Regan has essentially gone through Dr. Dudley's entire résumé. Summary: he's an accomplished, qualified medical professional


And they are still going over his resume.
 
  • #253
Skigirl said:
Yep. The frontal lobes aren't even completely developed until the mid twenties, and then the whole process starts to reverse with the frontal lobes declines correlating at about .6 with age. It's actually very depressing to me that I'm stupider now than I was right after I graduated from college :-(. (oh well, at least I'm wiser in that I'm not still dating losers).
Click to expand...

No one is more stupid than they were as a college graduate, you might not have the same capacity to remember. I'd say wisdom makes up for that, wouldn't you. I'm happy that you've laid off on the losers, it can't get any better than that can it.
 
  • #254
Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 45s46 seconds ago
He's certified in psychiatry but not in forensic psychiatry - says he just never went back to take the exam.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Dudley also had a clinical practice for many years

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Dr. Dudley finished his private clinical practice five years ago, as he was slowing down.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
Forensic psychiatry is the practice focused on the role of mental health in context of legal proceedings.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Also did forensic evaluations in NY Fam court. Many involved juveniles charged with crimes.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 41s41 seconds ago
Dr. Dudley started doing forensic evaluations in 1982/83. Still doing them today. Also testifies as expert 10 times a year.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
Dr. Dudley: Has testified in trial level criminal cases. Some Capital cases. And post conviction.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
Dudley has testified regularly in the past. He says he testifies mostly for the defense because "that's who calls" him.

Maria CramerVerified account ‏@GlobeMCramer 2m2 minutes ago
Denise Regan, lawyer for #PhilipChism, has spent at least 35 minutes going over Dr. Dudley's credentials.

And still going!
 
  • #255
Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 1m1 minute ago

40 minutes into dr's testimony, no mention of #PhilipChism. Def laying extensive groundwork to have court recognize him as an expert.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
We're done laying the foundation of Dudley's qualifications. Recess so he can finish reading #PhilipChism competency report.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
Judge will now take a break to let Dudley finish reading reports from #PhilipChism evaluation. Meanwhile another motion from defense.
 
  • #256
Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
 Defense wants Dudley to tell jury what #PhilipChism told him about past experiences. DA objects and calls it "self-serving hearsay"

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
Judge says he can't, based on SJC and rules of evidence. Just 2 weeks ago SJC upheld rule in case of slain #peabody woman

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Lowy is reading the written motion

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Regan alternatively would just want jury to hear statements to understand dudleys opinion.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
"I understand your argument," Lowy tells Regan. Now he's listening to ADA Kate MacDougall

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 3m3 minutes ago Salem, MA
A recent Supreme judicial court decision coming into play about what Dudley can say #PhilipChism told him. Judge Lowy trying to sort it out.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
Prosecutor is still concerned that defense would still try to get statement to jury

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Denies the defense motion to have Dudley testify about what Chism told him.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
Judge: defense expert can state the basis of the opinion but can't quote the statements. He can say only that he spoke to #PhilipChism
 
  • #257
allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 56s57 seconds ago
Another motion, to allow Dudley to testify about what #PhilipChism told him about PRESENT state of mind, about lack of memory and feelings.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Defense now asking to let Dudley testify about #PhilipChism statements re: his memory and state of mind, hearing voices, during interviews.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Regan says #PhilipChism has said he's hearing voices. It's admissible, she says

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Lowy says if #PhilipChism said that to someone, they can take stand and testify to that

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Defense: Are you saying Dudley can’t say #PhilipChism told him that he's hearing voices? "This is the defendant's defense!"

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
ADA citing case law. These statements cannot come into evidence bc #PhilipChism made them to Dudley not at time of murder

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Regan appears upset that Lowy won't allow testimony about #PhilipChism state of mind in interviews. Lowy: "I'm not saying it, the SJC is."

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
Regan: it is not hearsay for Dudley to report #PhilipChism told him he was hearing voices during eval. It's also essential to their defense

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 3m3 minutes ago
Lowy said if #PhilipChism was hearing voices around time of murder, it would get in.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Lowy says he understands her argument
 
  • #258
allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 3m3 minutes ago
Judge says someone could testify that #PhilipChism told him he was hearing voices around the time of the murder. But not later.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
At issue here seems to be when #PhilipChism said he heard voices. Saying at time of murder and later when examined are 2 diff things legally

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
The legal issue is the state's here-say rules. Defense is saying this is an exception and should be in.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
There's been no evidence presented #PhilipChism heard voices at time of murder

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
Regan says #PhilipChism had prior psychotic events and heard voices when he was younger but that's being kept out

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
Regan: #PhilipChism 's statement in exam formed Dr. Dudley's opinion.

Maria CramerVerified account ‏@GlobeMCramer 4m4 minutes ago
Regan counters that case law doesn't apply because she is trying to introduce statements #PhilipChism made to Dudley about his present state

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
Judge Lowy doesn't seem to be bending here.

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 4m4 minutes ago Salem, MA
Regan continues her emotional objection, saying this situation is a legal exception to the SJC rule restricting testimony

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
Lowy: Im just saying what the law is. It's pretty straightforward and not complicated

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 4m4 minutes ago
Lowy knows the various rules of evidence stone cold - refers to them by their numbers.

Maria CramerVerified account ‏@GlobeMCramer 4m4 minutes ago
Lowy is holding firm. "This court ruling has hamstrung me to the point where the defense has been eviscerated," Regan says

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
Regan: This is taking on Constitutional dimensions.
 
  • #259
Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 4m4 minutes ago
Judge: jury will still hear expert opinion even if Dr can't go into specifics of #PhilipChism statements.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 3m3 minutes ago
Lowy: I don't get how this one statement eviscerates the defense.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Regan: Essential to diagnosis that Dudley said #PhilipChism was hearing voices

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 3m3 minutes ago
Judge: "If you're right, then we're going to have a Commonwealth vs. Chism exception."

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 3m3 minutes ago
Def telling judge his ruling on #PhilipChism statements is unconstitutional. Judge citing extensive case law for his ruling.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
Regan: just submitted statements to #PhilipChism state of mind and they include, hearing voice, voice directing him.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
Regan: Voices get stronger for #PhilipChism, tell him he's a ninja

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
Regan The voices yell back at him, direct him. #PhilipChism doesn't remember his childhood.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 4m4 minutes ago
Regan: #PhilipChism cares more about his sisters than his own life, and he doesn't care what happens to him.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 5m5 minutes ago Salem, MA
Lowy says Regan's saying his ruling's in error, he remains calm, says other cases would have to be retried if she's right

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 5m5 minutes ago
Judge says Dudley can still testify about #PhilipChism's demeanor, just not his statements.
 
  • #260
Since hearsay is being argued over, thought I would link to the rules of evidence that are the center of the argument. http://www.mass.gov/courts/case-leg...s-guide-to-evidence/article-viii-hearsay.html

Basically, if Chism had made a statement to someone at the time of the murder that he was hearing voices, it's permissible for the person who heard to testify, as it was happening right around the time of the murder. But a statement Chism made later about his state of mind cannot come in.

Frankly, this is Evidence 101. The defense should know this can't come in. :twocents: It's very clearly spelled out in the rules. They would have been better served to say it was a statement made for treatment of a medical condition (which would be admissible).
 
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