MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

  • #621
Thanks for the close read. Ed Fetts, parks commissioner, took it out of her bag to call police. I read several articles that said she had called every day. It was her eighth day on the job - she had to have the radio on day 1 for emergencies at the pond because cell phones weren't available then.

I guess that would make sense that she would need the police radio every day. I think in my mind I thought the police gave the police radio to her to keep. Again, it all comes down to how we interpret a story. The show Disappeared made me think she had gotten the police radio the first time that day. But she would probably need a charger so that must mean that she then went to the police station after her shift every day to drop it off to be re-charged? Maybe there were other lifeguards too? I don't know because I do not know about how the town of Warren does lifeguarding at this Commins Pond. So I think you are probably right or how would she have notified anyone of an emergency in her first 7 days on the job?

I do not like to use names, even of known people because there is no proof anyone known is responsible for Molly Bish's disappearance and death. I did not even consider the parks commissioner until after I first got to see the 48 hours mystery episode. Again, it comes down to how we view media. The quote from the parks commissioner was, "I waited around. Nobody showed up. So I called the police."

There has to obviously be more to it than that. But when you do not know more information you come to your own conclusions. He had to have asked some of the women out at the pond that day if Molly was maybe in the bathroom. Or he asked if one of them possibly had taken over Molly's position so that she could be driven to the hospital for an injury(open first aid kit). Or he discussed with police or fire the idea that maybe she had drowned too. Again, I think because of shows like Disappeared I started thinking she was in her bathing/lifeguard suit when she was kidnapped. But because of the way the quote from the parks commissioner is phrased on 48 hours I start to think psychologically he was telling the truth. So that is why I had any sort of suspicion about the parks commissioner.

But in many investigations it is usually the last person to see the victim alive that ends up being the murderer. In this case that could be the sand truck driver. But I have never read anything about this person, whoever they are. I still think that is a strong suspect too because that is how a lot of cases end up being solved.

So I do not know. I guess based on the information that I think is known about the case.
 
  • #622
Yes, I think so too. She was taken before 10:20 a.m. She had called in every other day shortly after she arrived but not that day. I believe someone watched her set things up and grabbed her before she could go for the radio. According to profiler John Kelly, an anonymous classmate of Molly's left a comment on his Youtube channel stating they had seen a man watching Molly from the woods behind the beach the day (or days?) before she was taken. He urged the person to contact him.

That is certainly a very interesting piece of information about a man possibly watching Molly Bish from the woods behind the beach. I think your article definitely puts more perspective behind the idea that it could literally be anyone who had watched Molly Bish in the days leading up to her disappearance.

As for Molly Bish's work supervisor, according to the show Disappeared, he ran into Molly Bish's brother at the hardware store the day of the disappearance and did not mention she was missing. Maybe he is just a very nonchalant type of person? Most people did not think Molly Bish's disappearance was that big of an issue during those first few hours. It seemed strange to me though.

The reason I was so interested in the information about the police radio is that I agree that maybe Molly Bish's lifeguard area was staged. With the unscientific experiment I performed with my bookbag, I think whoever took out the towel would first have to remove the police radio. But maybe that person was Molly Bish? And she was going to radio in once all her stuff was set up? Even the sandals being off already was somewhat odd. In order to get her whistle and radio she would still have to walk back to the backpack on the bench. Instead, someone approached her pretending to be injured or she decided to check her first aid kit. And it would be kind of hard to stage a scene unless Molly was restrained or unconscious. The criminal in this case must have really surprised her if the water bottle was not even knocked over.

Learning new information about Molly Bish's disappearance and murder is interesting. Maybe someday something will break in this case.
 
  • #623
That is certainly a very interesting piece of information about a man possibly watching Molly Bish from the woods behind the beach. I think your article definitely puts more perspective behind the idea that it could literally be anyone who had watched Molly Bish in the days leading up to her disappearance.

As for Molly Bish's work supervisor, according to the show Disappeared, he ran into Molly Bish's brother at the hardware store the day of the disappearance and did not mention she was missing. Maybe he is just a very nonchalant type of person? Most people did not think Molly Bish's disappearance was that big of an issue during those first few hours. It seemed strange to me though.

The reason I was so interested in the information about the police radio is that I agree that maybe Molly Bish's lifeguard area was staged. With the unscientific experiment I performed with my bookbag, I think whoever took out the towel would first have to remove the police radio. But maybe that person was Molly Bish? And she was going to radio in once all her stuff was set up? Even the sandals being off already was somewhat odd. In order to get her whistle and radio she would still have to walk back to the backpack on the bench. Instead, someone approached her pretending to be injured or she decided to check her first aid kit. And it would be kind of hard to stage a scene unless Molly was restrained or unconscious. The criminal in this case must have really surprised her if the water bottle was not even knocked over.

Learning new information about Molly Bish's disappearance and murder is interesting. Maybe someday something will break in this case.

I hope something breaks. Following up on various small details as well as I can. In the meantime, found this in a Boston Globe article from 2003. A bit weird for such a small town, though I doubt it's related.

"Some local residents, frustrated by the lack of an arrest, have been critical of the investigation. They point out that densely wooded Whiskey Hill, with its secluded old logging trails, caves, and rugged terrain, is an ideal place to dispose of a body.

Indeed, just three months before Bish disappeared, the bodies of a man and a woman were found in a pickup truck on one of the hill's dirt roads, the apparent victims of a murder-suicide."

One thing I do believe is whoever left her body there was either from the town or grew up somewhere very close.
 
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  • #624
Fwiw, if i was carrying a bag with a towel and a police radio, i would probably wrap the radio in the towel to protect the equipment from water and thieves, imo,.
 
  • #625
Molly was not that far from me - age or geography or summer occupation. I’m so glad this is kept active.

MOO.
 
  • #626
Fwiw, if i was carrying a bag with a towel and a police radio, i would probably wrap the radio in the towel to protect the equipment from water and thieves, imo,.

I agree with you. There is no way to say for sure how the police radio would have been in her bookbag. Maybe she put it in a separate compartment part of the bookbag too? More information that we do not know because we are not the police. And in the Unsolved Mysteries segment about her disappearance, the Warren police chief said the police radio was sitting on the ground next to her other stuff like her lunch pail. But other research done said it was taken out of her bag by the parks commissioner to call the police that day, presumably at around 11:44 am(time according to the show Disappeared).

I think we come to conclusions based on the information we have and unfortunately we do not have the same information as the police. But a little thing like that(not being able to remove the towel without removing the radio) would make me think that maybe there is the possibility the crime scene was staged in some way. Or Molly Bish took the police radio out quickly and removed the towel. Then she put it back in her bookbag to remove later. There is no way to state for sure how she goes about setting up her lifeguard area.

The only thing I think you can state for sure is that she was not set up yet to lifeguard that day. She still had to remove the whistle and police radio(depending on what info you believe about these items location). She also probably would have put her outer clothes in the bookbag at some point if she had removed them, but she never got the chance.
 
  • #627
I've read quite a bit of this thread but something keeps bugging me. Has there ever been mention of Molly being pregnant (early stage) and thus it being a motive?
 
  • #628
Even though we will probably never know, I wonder if Molly Bish's backpack was open when the first witness arrived to the beach that day? I know it does not mean anything, but I wanted to know.

Everything can be explained away even if the backpack was closed. Maybe Molly decided to sit down on the lawn chair and drink some water while she checked the first aid kit? Then she waits until the kids have arrived before going back to remove the rest of the items from the backpack. Last of all, she removes her outer clothes and puts on the whistle ready to lifeguard. Then she closes the backpack.

It is one of those little things that makes you wonder if the scene was staged because sometimes it is instinct, like taking the keys out of the car ignition and locking the doors. I am guessing the backpack was open at the time the woman(whoever that person is) went into Molly's bookbag to get the whistle.
 
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  • #629
I've read quite a bit of this thread but something keeps bugging me. Has there ever been mention of Molly being pregnant (early stage) and thus it being a motive?
I don’t know everything about this case but I’ve never heard that there was any possibility that she was pregnant.
 
  • #630
I don’t know everything about this case but I’ve never heard that there was any possibility that she was pregnant.
I don't know what the police files say but I have read every single Boston Globe article going to back June 28, 2000, plus most of all the other articles on the case, Dr. Stein's book and all comments on public forums. Never seen it mentioned, ever. There is a case - Deborah Ann Quimby - where she was 13 and rumored to be pregnant. But not this one.

I just finished an article on Lisa Ziegert, who disappeared not far from where Molly was taken. One thing that struck me was people all thought it was the boyfriend, his friend and/or this creepy guy at her health club who had been staring at her. It ended up being a guy even the family hadn't heard of, someone who had been in police files since the very beginning because of a tip.
 
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  • #631
In most abduction murder cases, the killers name is known within the first 7 days, but theres little evidence . They re usually interviewed at least once, and will often also inject themselves into the investigation .
 
  • #632
I don't know what the police files say but I have read every single Boston Globe article going to back June 28, 2000, plus most of all the other articles on the case, Dr. Stein's book and all comments on public forums. Never seen it mentioned, ever. There is a case - Deborah Ann Quimby - where she was 13 and rumored to be pregnant. But not this one.

I just finished an article on Lisa Ziegert, who disappeared not far from where Molly was taken. One thing that struck me was people all thought it was the boyfriend, his friend and/or this creepy guy at her health club who had been staring at her. It ended up being a guy even the family hadn't heard of, someone who had been in police files since the very beginning because of a tip.


I haven’t done nearly as much research as you, but I’ve also never read that MB may have been pregnant.
 
  • #633
In most abduction murder cases, the killers name is known within the first 7 days, but theres little evidence . They re usually interviewed at least once, and will often also inject themselves into the investigation .

Since you were involved in the case early on and would have a good idea of who most of the early suspects were in the investigation, who do you think most likely abducted and murdered Molly Bish? For anyone else, who do you think and why? I think either sand truck driver or parks commissioner. That is only my opinion.

The man in the white car is hard to refute, especially with so many sightings around the pond and cemetery area on the day of the disappearance.

The last person to see the victim alive, most likely the sand truck driver, is always a good suspect because maybe this person saw she was alone and decided to abduct Molly Bish.

The work supervisor/parks commissioner is another known person to the investigation. But the only way he could have done it is if he had abducted Molly Bish, put her somewhere, and then came back to the pond area to wait before calling police with the two way police radio. This puts him arriving at the pond at approximately 11:20 am that day and it seems too short a time to abduct, murder, and then place Molly Bish's body on Whiskey Hill.

I have never really thought the boyfriend for the same reason as her brother when it comes to time. But he did have a cut lip he could not explain. Then again, he passed a polygraph which I know cannot be used to determine guilt or innocence.

Then because of the geography of the area, maybe a cemetery worker was involved? Or maybe one of Molly's co-workers or people from her lifeguarding class?

It is sad how so many cases like this tend to be stuck in limbo. Without being able to narrow things down, the only correct answer seems to be that it could be anyone who knew about Molly Bish working as a lifeguard out at Commins Pond.
 
  • #634
I hadn’t looked at this case in a while. A few questions come to mind:

1) According to a HuffPo article, several items found near the pond were sent for DNA testing in 2013. Her sister suggested they included cigarette butts, duct tape, and other items. Any word on whether testing provided a usable male profile? Molly Bish Murder Investigation: Police Outsource DNA Testing Of Evidence | HuffPost

2) What, if anything, did LE decide with respect to the purported snuff film found in RS’s possession?

3) Is this Twitter account authentic? If so, all I can say is wow: https://mobile.twitter.com/rodneystanger?lang=en

4) Did the PI ever reveal what evidence from the custody dispute led him to suspect GB? Was it just the prior rape? Gerald Battistoni, man eyed in murder of Massachusetts girls Molly Bish and Holly Piirainen, apparently attempts suicide in prison

5) I can’t recall the source, but I seem to remember the Pond manager stating that there had been no lifeguard on duty the entire day. Are we to assume Molly went missing at the start of her shift?

6) Do we have a description of the man KT saw leering at Molly in the days prior to her disappearance?

Shame there were so many mustachioed pedophiles driving similar vehicles in that area of MA at the time.

@somequestions What is this about Molly’s backpack and a missing whistle?
 
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  • #635
Did the work supervisor/parks commissioner drive a white car that belonged to the city, county or whoever managed the programs? It seems very common that white vehicles are used in businesses. Who was close enough to the white car to give such detail on the driver’s face?
 
  • #636
Since you were involved in the case early on and would have a good idea of who most of the early suspects were in the investigation, who do you think most likely abducted and murdered Molly Bish? For anyone else, who do you think and why? I think either sand truck driver or parks commissioner. That is only my opinion.

The man in the white car is hard to refute, especially with so many sightings around the pond and cemetery area on the day of the disappearance.

The last person to see the victim alive, most likely the sand truck driver, is always a good suspect because maybe this person saw she was alone and decided to abduct Molly Bish.

The work supervisor/parks commissioner is another known person to the investigation. But the only way he could have done it is if he had abducted Molly Bish, put her somewhere, and then came back to the pond area to wait before calling police with the two way police radio. This puts him arriving at the pond at approximately 11:20 am that day and it seems too short a time to abduct, murder, and then place Molly Bish's body on Whiskey Hill.

I have never really thought the boyfriend for the same reason as her brother when it comes to time. But he did have a cut lip he could not explain. Then again, he passed a polygraph which I know cannot be used to determine guilt or innocence.

Then because of the geography of the area, maybe a cemetery worker was involved? Or maybe one of Molly's co-workers or people from her lifeguarding class?

It is sad how so many cases like this tend to be stuck in limbo. Without being able to narrow things down, the only correct answer seems to be that it could be anyone who knew about Molly Bish working as a lifeguard out at Commins Pond.


First a little clarity , I was not involved in the investigation, I've just followed her (and many others) for years .

To say WHOM i feel is responsible would be impossible without actual case info , but what I can do is lay out what I feel the offender was like , and whomever fits it Id be digging into

In Molly's case, youre looking most likely at a local who knew that area, I cant say for sure whether or not the man Molly's mom saw was her killer, its a strong possibility , but we just don't know.

A victimology assessment needs to be done to clear Molly's background to see if perhaps someone may have been stalking her or if she had enemies etc....You always start close and work out .

Though most abduction homicides of children are by chance (the offender just happens to come upon the victim) , I feel certain saying this individual planned this at lest partially.

There was no way to know she was alone there unless he survelied the area prior to, or he already knew the schedule, its a high risk offense if he walks down there and theres more than one person, unless hes supposed to be there.

I feel he has most likely been in prison before, probably has a history of sexual offenses, though I feel this was probably his first murder, It might have not been his last though. There a EXTREMELY high propensity for abduction murders to become serial offenders.

NOBODY wakes up one day and suddenly decides to abduct. rape and murder a girl , theres always a path that leads up to it, and in many cases, that path keeps going into the dark, with more victims, though they may not kill all of them

And Im certain SOMEONE knows or strongly suspects someone they know, but just never came forward.

I also feel he was most likely interviewed by police, but theres something that keeps his name on the back burner.

But ill say again i feel whomever it was parked in the Cemetery nearby and walked her out of there , either by ruse, or con such as brandishing a badge, a weapon, or saying someone up near the cemetery needed help .

I do not feel she was dragged out physically , or incapacitated and carried .

Now here's another possibility , .....Its also possible it was someone she was familiar with , kids are abducted only slightly more by strangers than acquaintances, it was a long way to get that girl out of there, if a stranger approaches with a ruse, and she doesn't go with him, he stands the risk that someone may interrupt.

Which brings up another question was Molly a specific target, or was she just a victim of opportunity? was the offender there lying in wait for any girl that happened to be there alone?

Could be either, but I feel he absolutely knew there would be a young girl there alone that day.

SO doing a victimology assessment would tell us more about Molly, was she the type of person that would simply go off with a stranger?, was she a risk taker? , was she altruistic? perhaps to help a stranger in distress? was she cautious? would she go with someone who brandished a badge?, would she fight back against a physical assault ? , was she naive? was she trusting? was she big hearted? would she attempt to help someone she thought needed aid? was she distrustful of people, whoud she refuse to go anywhere with someone she didnt know? what about some "harmless presence" shes seen there and perhaps talked to there before ? what about a co-worker ?

What we want to know is what made her a good target that day?, how would she respond, what elevated her risk?. We want to know what made her a victim.

Now depending on that :

If it were a stranger, I feel whatever the method used was it would most likely have to be something he could abandon had anyone else happened upon the scene, a stranger might know she was there, but not what time anyone else might happen upon the pond area.

An Acquaintance, would have to provide less info, could know who was there, and how much time they would have to get her out of there unseen.

Ruse/Con is also most often used to abduct teenage victims.

In most abduction/murders of children, the offender lives, works, or traverses that area of the abduction regularly, IE they are usually in that area for a legitimate reason.

The mean age of the abduction murder of children is 27, but id put it at slightly older early to mid 30's with this offender, there was some criminal sophistication only gained with experience here.

Though they usually live nearby, there is usually a stronger tie to the offender and where the victim is recovered. They usually know the body recovery area very well as that's where they stand the risk of being caught either raping, killing , or with a deceased victim.

The body recovery site (I hate the term "dump site") is usually within 200 feet from where the murder actually occurred, in many cases, its one and the same.

We never want a suspect list when we do an analysis, because well invariably start to tailor it to whomever is on the list.

But again, I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility, shes seen his face before .
 
  • #637
In most abduction/murders of children, the offender lives, works, or traverses that area of the abduction regularly, IE they are usually in that area for a legitimate reason.
Agree.
 
  • #638
First a little clarity , I was not involved in the investigation, I've just followed her (and many others) for years .

To say WHOM i feel is responsible would be impossible without actual case info , but what I can do is lay out what I feel the offender was like , and whomever fits it Id be digging into

In Molly's case, youre looking most likely at a local who knew that area, I cant say for sure whether or not the man Molly's mom saw was her killer, its a strong possibility , but we just don't know.

A victimology assessment needs to be done to clear Molly's background to see if perhaps someone may have been stalking her or if she had enemies etc....You always start close and work out .

Though most abduction homicides of children are by chance (the offender just happens to come upon the victim) , I feel certain saying this individual planned this at lest partially.

There was no way to know she was alone there unless he survelied the area prior to, or he already knew the schedule, its a high risk offense if he walks down there and theres more than one person, unless hes supposed to be there.

I feel he has most likely been in prison before, probably has a history of sexual offenses, though I feel this was probably his first murder, It might have not been his last though. There a EXTREMELY high propensity for abduction murders to become serial offenders.

NOBODY wakes up one day and suddenly decides to abduct. rape and murder a girl , theres always a path that leads up to it, and in many cases, that path keeps going into the dark, with more victims, though they may not kill all of them

And Im certain SOMEONE knows or strongly suspects someone they know, but just never came forward.

I also feel he was most likely interviewed by police, but theres something that keeps his name on the back burner.

But ill say again i feel whomever it was parked in the Cemetery nearby and walked her out of there , either by ruse, or con such as brandishing a badge, a weapon, or saying someone up near the cemetery needed help .

I do not feel she was dragged out physically , or incapacitated and carried .

Now here's another possibility , .....Its also possible it was someone she was familiar with , kids are abducted only slightly more by strangers than acquaintances, it was a long way to get that girl out of there, if a stranger approaches with a ruse, and she doesn't go with him, he stands the risk that someone may interrupt.

Which brings up another question was Molly a specific target, or was she just a victim of opportunity? was the offender there lying in wait for any girl that happened to be there alone?

Could be either, but I feel he absolutely knew there would be a young girl there alone that day.

SO doing a victimology assessment would tell us more about Molly, was she the type of person that would simply go off with a stranger?, was she a risk taker? , was she altruistic? perhaps to help a stranger in distress? was she cautious? would she go with someone who brandished a badge?, would she fight back against a physical assault ? , was she naive? was she trusting? was she big hearted? would she attempt to help someone she thought needed aid? was she distrustful of people, whoud she refuse to go anywhere with someone she didnt know? what about some "harmless presence" shes seen there and perhaps talked to there before ? what about a co-worker ?

What we want to know is what made her a good target that day?, how would she respond, what elevated her risk?. We want to know what made her a victim.

Now depending on that :

If it were a stranger, I feel whatever the method used was it would most likely have to be something he could abandon had anyone else happened upon the scene, a stranger might know she was there, but not what time anyone else might happen upon the pond area.

An Acquaintance, would have to provide less info, could know who was there, and how much time they would have to get her out of there unseen.

Ruse/Con is also most often used to abduct teenage victims.

In most abduction/murders of children, the offender lives, works, or traverses that area of the abduction regularly, IE they are usually in that area for a legitimate reason.

The mean age of the abduction murder of children is 27, but id put it at slightly older early to mid 30's with this offender, there was some criminal sophistication only gained with experience here.

Though they usually live nearby, there is usually a stronger tie to the offender and where the victim is recovered. They usually know the body recovery area very well as that's where they stand the risk of being caught either raping, killing , or with a deceased victim.

The body recovery site (I hate the term "dump site") is usually within 200 feet from where the murder actually occurred, in many cases, its one and the same.

We never want a suspect list when we do an analysis, because well invariably start to tailor it to whomever is on the list.

But again, I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility, shes seen his face before .

This is really helpful, especially for an amateur.

One thing continues to bug me. As I mentioned, I went back and read every article on this I could find. In every single reference, if a cemetery is named it is Pine Grove - i.e. the long-time St. Paul's caretaker said he was there and saw the car between 10 and 10:35 a.m. The time is in the Boston Globe archive - he told the reporter he was coming around the corner getting a sandwich when he saw the white car parked at the end of the trail. The Globe calls it Pine Grove, the adjoining cemetery. The Republican also quotes him as saying it was in Pine Grove. Here's the thing - it was not in Pine Grove but St. Paul's and he would have known that. I actually went and looked at property records, though it seems clear when you're there too. Did both reporters get it wrong? If not, how did he get that wrong?

Also, he's the caretaker. It's early in the morning and a car is parked where no car should be parked. There are no graves there and it's at the end of the trail. He told one reporter he saw the roof and two side windows. He told the Globe he saw the rear window. Reports of a scream appear in many stories - yet he was there at the time the car was parked and he heard nothing in a silent cemetery 150 paces (Globe) from the beach. He told the first reporter the car was empty because he saw no one in the front windows. Which implies the killer was on the trail. Yet he did not hear the killer get her into the car, or see the car leave and paid no attention to it, in a boring cemetery where nothing is going on.

I am not accusing anyone. And I know people remember things differently over time and reporters screw up. But something is not right with that story.
 
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  • #639
I hadn’t looked at this case in a while. A few questions come to mind:

1) According to a HuffPo article, several items found near the pond were sent for DNA testing in 2013. Her sister suggested they included cigarette butts, duct tape, and other items. Any word on whether testing provided a usable male profile? Molly Bish Murder Investigation: Police Outsource DNA Testing Of Evidence | HuffPost

2) What, if anything, did LE decide with respect to the purported snuff film found in RS’s possession?

3) Is this Twitter account authentic? If so, all I can say is wow: https://mobile.twitter.com/rodneystanger?lang=en

4) Did the PI ever reveal what evidence from the custody dispute led him to suspect GB? Was it just the prior rape? Gerald Battistoni, man eyed in murder of Massachusetts girls Molly Bish and Holly Piirainen, apparently attempts suicide in prison

5) I can’t recall the source, but I seem to remember the Pond manager stating that there had been no lifeguard on duty the entire day. Are we to assume Molly went missing at the start of her shift?

6) Do we have a description of the man KT saw leering at Molly in the days prior to her disappearance?

Shame there were so many mustachioed pedophiles driving similar vehicles in that area of MA at the time.

@somequestions What is this about Molly’s backpack and a missing whistle?

I will try and explain this as best I can as even I am still confused about the locations of Molly Bish's items out on the beach. Remember these are my opinions and are based on guesses in terms of their meaning.

First, the whistle was never missing. As I understand it, when Molly Bish was abducted she was still wearing her outer clothes over her lifeguard bathing suit. This means she did not put on the whistle yet before she was abducted. Later, some woman went into Molly Bish's bookbag and retrieved the whistle to use it in order to lifeguard these small kids that had come there that day for swim lessons.

Second, the backpack questions I ask are based on assumptions that I do not have the answers to. Was Molly Bish's backpack open or closed when the woman took the whistle out of it? Why do I ask? For my theory and why I ask, lets just assume it was closed although it would make way more sense if it was open.

Third, the police radio may or may not have been in Molly Bish's bookbag when the parks commissioner removed it in order to use it to call police. I don't know. Let's assume again that the parks commissioner had to go into the bag to remove it. In terms of sequence I would think the police radio would be on top of the towel.

I recreated the crime as they say by pretending to have the same things as Molly Bish and set them up. By doing this I came up with a few questions. First, did Molly Bish ever sit down in the lawn chair? I ask this because when I sat down I realized that the towel would be flush against the chair. I remember sitting in a lawn chair one time and the marks it left on the back of my thighs. It looks like maybe she did not sit down in the lawn chair, but I don't know. Let's again assume for the sake of my theory that she did not sit down in the lawn chair.

So putting this all together I asked myself why a person would remove a towel, then have to put back a police radio into the bag, then possibly zip up the bookbag, but then not go back and sit down in the lawn chair?

And what does all this mean. NOTHING. Maybe it was right at that moment as she walked back to sit down in the lawn chair or check her first aid kit that someone approached to either ask her for a band-aid or pulled a gun. But that, along with wondering whether or not there was any conversation about whether someone was injured, etc is why I asked these questions.

But that is why coming up with conclusions is so difficult. Only the Massachusetts State Police seem to know the answers to my questions.

All I am explaining is that, in my opinion, Molly Bish's lifeguard chair setup looks strange to me, in terms of sequence. And we have to remember it is only strange IF we assume all three of those assumptions I wrote above. I feel bad if I am wrong about what I think about the possible involvement by the parks commissioner, but at least by explaining it someone could understand why.

Unfortunately I have no clue about the way Molly Bish sets up her stuff for lifeguarding out on the beach. I am guessing.
 
  • #640
First a little clarity , I was not involved in the investigation, I've just followed her (and many others) for years .

To say WHOM i feel is responsible would be impossible without actual case info , but what I can do is lay out what I feel the offender was like , and whomever fits it Id be digging into

In Molly's case, youre looking most likely at a local who knew that area, I cant say for sure whether or not the man Molly's mom saw was her killer, its a strong possibility , but we just don't know.

A victimology assessment needs to be done to clear Molly's background to see if perhaps someone may have been stalking her or if she had enemies etc....You always start close and work out .

Though most abduction homicides of children are by chance (the offender just happens to come upon the victim) , I feel certain saying this individual planned this at lest partially.

There was no way to know she was alone there unless he survelied the area prior to, or he already knew the schedule, its a high risk offense if he walks down there and theres more than one person, unless hes supposed to be there.

I feel he has most likely been in prison before, probably has a history of sexual offenses, though I feel this was probably his first murder, It might have not been his last though. There a EXTREMELY high propensity for abduction murders to become serial offenders.

NOBODY wakes up one day and suddenly decides to abduct. rape and murder a girl , theres always a path that leads up to it, and in many cases, that path keeps going into the dark, with more victims, though they may not kill all of them

And Im certain SOMEONE knows or strongly suspects someone they know, but just never came forward.

I also feel he was most likely interviewed by police, but theres something that keeps his name on the back burner.

But ill say again i feel whomever it was parked in the Cemetery nearby and walked her out of there , either by ruse, or con such as brandishing a badge, a weapon, or saying someone up near the cemetery needed help .

I do not feel she was dragged out physically , or incapacitated and carried .

Now here's another possibility , .....Its also possible it was someone she was familiar with , kids are abducted only slightly more by strangers than acquaintances, it was a long way to get that girl out of there, if a stranger approaches with a ruse, and she doesn't go with him, he stands the risk that someone may interrupt.

Which brings up another question was Molly a specific target, or was she just a victim of opportunity? was the offender there lying in wait for any girl that happened to be there alone?

Could be either, but I feel he absolutely knew there would be a young girl there alone that day.

SO doing a victimology assessment would tell us more about Molly, was she the type of person that would simply go off with a stranger?, was she a risk taker? , was she altruistic? perhaps to help a stranger in distress? was she cautious? would she go with someone who brandished a badge?, would she fight back against a physical assault ? , was she naive? was she trusting? was she big hearted? would she attempt to help someone she thought needed aid? was she distrustful of people, whoud she refuse to go anywhere with someone she didnt know? what about some "harmless presence" shes seen there and perhaps talked to there before ? what about a co-worker ?

What we want to know is what made her a good target that day?, how would she respond, what elevated her risk?. We want to know what made her a victim.

Now depending on that :

If it were a stranger, I feel whatever the method used was it would most likely have to be something he could abandon had anyone else happened upon the scene, a stranger might know she was there, but not what time anyone else might happen upon the pond area.

An Acquaintance, would have to provide less info, could know who was there, and how much time they would have to get her out of there unseen.

Ruse/Con is also most often used to abduct teenage victims.

In most abduction/murders of children, the offender lives, works, or traverses that area of the abduction regularly, IE they are usually in that area for a legitimate reason.

The mean age of the abduction murder of children is 27, but id put it at slightly older early to mid 30's with this offender, there was some criminal sophistication only gained with experience here.

Though they usually live nearby, there is usually a stronger tie to the offender and where the victim is recovered. They usually know the body recovery area very well as that's where they stand the risk of being caught either raping, killing , or with a deceased victim.

The body recovery site (I hate the term "dump site") is usually within 200 feet from where the murder actually occurred, in many cases, its one and the same.

We never want a suspect list when we do an analysis, because well invariably start to tailor it to whomever is on the list.

But again, I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility, shes seen his face before .

Thank you for the insight. I value your opinion. I try to remember that you are correct in how a victim would react in a given situation is so important. How would Molly Bish act in this situation? I have no idea how she would react, but there are a lot of little questions about things I would like to know the answer to.
 

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