MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #18

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Not only that but the shards magically went thru clothing, scratched his arm without leaving a single trace of plastic in the wounds or inside the clothing, and going back out of the clothing to land all over the lawn that no one saw. Truly a miracle upon a miracle!

Yes @Derph …. and call me late to jump in here……

But the other thing about those supposed items….. where exactly were the taillight shards and any glass remnants found? Each and every supposed identified piece? What proximity to other items? Including the victim JOK? And where is that in relation to the driveway and the Albert residence?

From some recent aerial shots IIRC the victim was located over near the flagpole? Which IIUC was not close to the driveway? Isn’t it more center line of the property along the street?

It seems preposterous that this far along IIRC there is no reconstructive evidence supporting how this supposed ‘vehicle strike’ occurred. And no clear overhead or aerial depiction of where these items and locations are related to each other? Showing yards, feet, inches, etc. And the different pieces of ‘evidence’ ‘location’ albeit IMO well compromised in their collection and evidentiary absence of protocol. SMH. MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Did you watch the first trial at all? It was seen on video and also admitted to that everyone was drinking pretty good that night.

If I am following your thoughts on this case..........Karen is unlikable so therefor guilty. Not concrete evidence of anything but guilty by arrogance and attitude. It has been proven that Canton PD is corrupt and has already covered up one murder. It is proven that Proctor said and did some pretty vile things, but he deserves a book deal?

Nah.
There’s the fact Karen was the last one with him.
There’s transfer evidence, dna, hair, particulate from the tailight.
Timing, voice messages, her raging jealousy and temper, she was drunk.
Her lies & contradictions.

Verses the ridiculous conspiracy that involves EVERYONE

I’m not about to twist myself into a pretzel believing the preposterous when common sense tells me she backed into him and she hit him.

All IMO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Nah.
There’s the fact Karen was the last one with him.
There’s transfer evidence, dna, hair, particulate from the tailight.
Timing, voice messages, her raging jealousy and temper, she was drunk.
Her lies & contradictions.

Verses the ridiculous conspiracy that involves EVERYONE

I’m not about to twist myself into a pretzel believing the preposterous when common sense tells me she backed into him and she hit him.

All IMO

Common sense is not evidence though. Simply said, it’s egoic to think she deserves conviction based on your ‘common sense’.

You do not need to buy into anyone else killing JOK. But the reality is there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to have KR convicted.

 

[Linda7NJ]

As for ‘how do you know who was drinking’ this is detailed in the dozens of other threads about KR. Sorry, but I am not going to go through years of court proceedings and websleuths threads on your behalf. It is known.

You will note I’ve never spoken about Colin, so I consider this a bit of a straw man to be thrown my way. However, all I will say is that in the face of a police department who did not do their job throughly investigating all those on scene that night (an investigation I will add, that was led by a man just dishonorably discharged and fired, who had personal hatred for KR…), Karen’s lawyers are forced to look through the evidence they have been presented and look for what possibly could have happened. I understand you are feeling some kind of way about it, but it is simply their job. Maybe Colin’s name would have never been floated had the house been properly investigated.

Proctor may have behaved dishonorably, ran his mouth and said cruel things.
but he had her accurately pegged. I can’t fault him for hating a cop killer.
Cops are human, have emotions and the ones I know have incredible instincts.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Common sense is not evidence though. Simply said, it’s egoic to think she deserves conviction based on your ‘common sense’.

You do not need to buy into anyone else killing JOK. But the reality is there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to have KR convicted.

Jurors are not expected to park their common sense outside the door of the courtroom or deliberation room

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

How do you know everyone was intoxicated that night?
The defense is pointing the finger specifically at Collin - based on what evidence?
Pointing the finger at him, in my opinion, is beyond diabolical and vile.

Karen Read made a big mistake pointing the finger at him. She doesn’t understand being a parent. I bet those jurors will. You accuse a child of murder, you better have evidence.

The evidence against him has been presented and gone over ad nauseum. If people want to pretend it doesn't exist or purposely ignore it, what should they do?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Common sense is not evidence though. Simply said, it’s egoic to think she deserves conviction based on your ‘common sense’.

You do not need to buy into anyone else killing JOK. But the reality is there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to have KR convicted.

I’d convict her.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

People go on and on about “solo cups” and paper bags.
Both are practical to use in an emergency.
The hysteria is nonsensical.

All IMO

You accused me upthread of having an ‘anti-police bias’.

The extreme emotionality and complete lack of facts you’re responding with lead me to believe you may have a ‘pro-police bias’.

Like you, I have family friends who are police - from beat cops, to K9 handlers, to child protective investigators.

I love my LE friends. I think they’re wonderful people.

But I do not let my affection for them blind me to the clear mishandling of this case by Canton PD.

 

[Wishbone]

Karen Read's team requests federal court to intervene to delay start of new trial​

Attorneys for Karen Read have filed a petition in U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts requesting a stay of her trial in the state superior court, which is set to begin on April 1.


This comes after Judge Beverly Cannone, the Norfolk Superior Court judge, on Thursday denied a defense motion to delay the start of the case, citing concerns about scheduling the jury pool.


The defense is pushing for a delay based on an ongoing appeal in the First Circuit Court of Appeals.

Karen Read's team requests federal court to intervene to delay start of new trial

Attorneys for Karen Read have filed a petition in U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts requesting a stay of her trial in Norfolk Superior Court, which is set to begin on April 1.

www.nbcboston.com

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I’d convict her.

Glad you’re not a juror then! I don’t know what else to say. You have failed to present evidence to support your case. You are armed with your ‘common sense’ and a reactive anger to anyone questioning LE.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Proctor may have behaved dishonorably, ran his mouth and said cruel things.
but he had her accurately pegged. I can’t fault him for hating a cop killer.
Cops are human, have emotions and the ones I know have incredible instincts.

Yeah, he’s just a regular human that was so mad about his fellow officer dying that he spent his time ‘investigating’ searching for nude photos of Karen! Totally normal guy. Great instincts!

 

[rescuemom]

Not an exact science unfortunately. I don't doubt the dog was in the house.

Don't remember exactly how many people were in the house at ~1am but not one of them saw JO ? Or Albert/Higgins convinced them all to lie ? Julie Nagel testified she a black "blob" on the lawn when she left at ~1:45am. Was she lying ?

If JO were in the house and was bludgeoned, someone moved him to the front yard by the flagpole. If that were the case, were they not afraid of being seen moving the body ? At that time, who in the house knew KR had a damaged tailight and might be charged with hitting him ?

Sorry, I'm struggling to believe the whole conspiracy theory.

 

[Lorenathered]

It was a blizzard.
People go on and on about “solo cups” and paper bags.
Both are practical to use in an emergency.
The hysteria is nonsensical.

All IMO

IMO, anyone who has any understanding of how crime scene investigation works and important chain of custody is, fully understands how insanely incompetent it was to solo cups and stop and shop bags for collect evidence. What was the emergency here exactly? It certainly wasn't going to melt before they had someone come and collect it properly.

 

[rescuemom]

At that time, who in the house knew KR had a damaged tailight and might be charged with hitting him ?

I don't know when who decided what but her cracked tailight was not discovered until morning and her utterance of possibly hitting him. I think then is when she became the scapegoat. I don't think it was an all out plan to frame her it just became very convenient.

JO was unconscious in the house at some point and taken out of the storm cellar door and placed in the front yard near the road. Hoping, I guess that it would be believed that he was struck by a vehicle of some kind. They were all drunk and probably in a frenzy to just get him out of the house. Maybe the dog bites/scrathches were not even thought about or noticed.

I live in Florida. I knew nothing about this case until the trial. I watched the whole thing. So my impressions and knowlege of it is just like a juror, IMO. KR is not my kind of person and we would probably never be friends but she doesn't deserve to be blamed for this and the bias, corruption and continuing desparation in this case is unbelievable.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

The Alberts would have been asleep for ~3.5 hours when KR/JM arrived @6am. I'd buy the explanation of not a lot of sleep, quite a few drinks & a howling wind outside would explain not hearing the commotion outside.

After watching the documentary just now, I'd like to know why KR was reversing her Lexus at 24mph according to the telemetry. 24mph is really fast in reverse and if IMO she had hit JO at that speed, could've done a lot of damage and
possibly killed him.

Interesting point in the last paragraph @Sustained ….

Unfortunately I am not able to find good corroborating information on this. IIUC it could depend on how the vehicle speed is recorded on the Lexus SUV KR was driving that evening. If the tires were slipping on the snow or ice that might have affect any speed recorded? It may also depend on how the speed on the vehicle is determined - whether by GPS telemetry, or measure from the tire, driveshaft or transmission. IDK if certain vehicles still attempt to determine speed based on engine RPM. MOO

 

[Sustained]

At that time, who in the house knew KR had a damaged tailight and might be charged with hitting him ?

I don't know when who decided what but her cracked tailight was not discovered until morning and her utterance of possibly hitting him. I think then is when she became the scapegoat. I don't think it was an all out plan to frame her it just became very convenient.

JO was unconscious in the house at some point and taken out of the storm cellar door and placed in the front yard near the road. Hoping, I guess that it would be believed that he was struck by a vehicle of some kind. They were all drunk and probably in a frenzy to just get him out of the house. Maybe the dog bites/scrathches were not even thought about or noticed.

I live in Florida. I knew nothing about this case until the trial. I watched the whole thing. So my impressions and knowlege of it is just like a juror, IMO. KR is not my kind of person and we would probably never be friends but she doesn't deserve to be blamed for this and the bias, corruption and continuing desparation in this case is unbelievable.

If your theory is true, everyone in the house is lying including Julie Nagel. Also in the "frenzy", they remembered to take out the broken Waterfall glass and put it near JO. Instead of staging JO on the lawn, why didn't they just claim there was a fight and JO fell and hit his head ? Would have been easy to say JO came in the house looking for a fight with BH, got aggressive, the dog responded and someone pushed JO in self defense to the floor causing the head injury.

 

[cocomod]

The CW arguing (whining) in court about ARRCA made me realize something a bit crazy. They literally are acting like a defense team here, not the prosecution.

Honestly, why in the world would the court not want the truth in court?!!!! The whole truth is fine - the feds investigation is over. But, why hide the truth from the jury?

 

[cocomod]

The Alberts would have been asleep for ~3.5 hours when KR/JM arrived @6am. I'd buy the explanation of not a lot of sleep, quite a few drinks & a howling wind outside would explain not hearing the commotion outside.

After watching the documentary just now, I'd like to know why KR was reversing her Lexus at 24mph according to the telemetry. 24mph is really fast in reverse and if IMO she had hit JO at that speed, could've done a lot of damage and
possibly killed him.

You wouldn’t go outside if you heard that your friend - a fellow cop - was dead on your lawn? You wouldn’t want to know how or why?

The key stroke data proves the backing up at the rate of speed happened while in police custody, not by KR

 

[Linda7NJ]

Glad you’re not a juror then! I don’t know what else to say. You have failed to present evidence to support your case. You are armed with your ‘common sense’ and a reactive anger to anyone questioning LE.

I’m not angry, I’m confident in my conclusion.

 

[Linda7NJ]

You wouldn’t go outside if you heard that your friend - a fellow cop - was dead on your lawn? You wouldn’t want to know how or why?

The key stroke data proves the backing up at the rate of speed happened while in police custody, not by KR

John was off the lawn by then