MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[Elliot_Alderson]

Correct, I should have been clear - I used hearsay to mean ‘what others have said’. I am asking Linda for an example of Karen contradicting Karen, not 34 Fairview folk (JM, BH, CA, BA, JN, etc.) contradicting Karen.

"She just did" is probably the answer. All we need in a court of law to convict someone. JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

If only it was just Higgins who got rid of his phone that's one thing and possibly a big nothing but it's not. It's just an amazing coincidence that on the exact same day another person, Brian Albert destroyed his phone and got a new one as well. I could maybe see that if that was the only coincidental thing that happened with people in and around the murder scene from that night, but it's not. It's just one of many. And there are way, way too many unbelievable things and way, way too many perfect coincidences involving the people who were around JOK that night to make me believe that some or all of them were up to something nefarious.

And again because it bears repeating over and over....The only people who destroyed cell phones, deleted texts, made multiple butt dials, hid, retired, worked on their day off, rehomed their dog, tore up the basement of their house and had it redone, sold their house for well below market value, repeatedly lied on the stand, got fired for their actions in the investigation, lost video footage, manipulated video footage, etc, etc, etc...were NOT Karen Read.

I have not looked at Albert yet. To be honest I am finding it a lot of work to sift through what stuff is alleged, what stuff is rumour and what stuff is more solid.

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Contradictory statements

Read told ABC News that she dropped off O’Keefe and saw him approach the side door of the house. She waited in her car for 10 minutes, and after being irritated that he never texted her, she drove back to O’Keefe’s home.

A who’s who guide of witnesses and key people in the Karen Read trial

"And then when I hired David Yannetti, I asked him those questions the night of January 29," Read said in the documentary. "'Like David, what if I ran his foot over or clipped him in the knee and he passed out and went to care for himself and he threw up or passed out?'

MSN

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Contradictory statements

Read told ABC News that she dropped off O’Keefe and saw him approach the side door of the house. She waited in her car for 10 minutes, and after being irritated that he never texted her, she drove back to O’Keefe’s home.

A who’s who guide of witnesses and key people in the Karen Read trial

"And then when I hired David Yannetti, I asked him those questions the night of January 29," Read said in the documentary. "'Like David, what if I ran his foot over or clipped him in the knee and he passed out and went to care for himself and he threw up or passed out?'

MSN

These are not contradictory statements.

Statement 1 is what KR says happened the night JOK died.

Quote 2 is a QUESTION KR asked her attorney after the fact, when she was trying to understand what could have happened. A statement has a period at the end, not a question mark. She wasn’t making a statement, but rather running through hypothetical scenarios out of panic and confusion.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

You might be right, but I'm not a expert on charging.

I'm pretty sure she knew she hit him.
I suspect (at some point) she kind of realized she didn't just graze him.
I'm sure it wasn't a planned action. "Just" the result of a moment of rage/drunkeness.

But... I think she did make some very bad decisions after hitting him. Things do get weird. If she had not driven home and told nobody, but instead got out and called 911 or even called someone at the party when she got home to check on him... or basically done anything but do nothing for 5+ hours - is he still alive?

And, whatever she tells herself today or tries to forget or convince herself that maybe it's not how she remembers or that she doesn't remember... what she allowed her original defense to do with trying to imply various other people murdered John (especially Colin Albert) is... well it makes her... words that I won't type here.

It's one thing to allude to other possibilities, it's another to allow her defense to accuse people she knows did not do this.

* to that end, I think her defense may actually be helped by the judge's recent ruling on that.

Are you inside of her head? How can you possibly know what KR knows or doesn't know?

 

[Linda7NJ]

These are not contradictory statements.

Statement 1 is what KR says happened the night JOK died.

Quote 2 is a QUESTION KR asked her attorney after the fact, when she was trying to understand what could have happened. A statement has a period at the end, not a question mark. She wasn’t making a statement, but rather running through hypothetical scenarios out of panic and confusion.

IMO she wanted to know how much trouble she would be in - if she admitted that she hit him.

Her minimizing by using the word “CLIPPED” as opposed to “HIT” is telling to me.

Like her minimizing how much she had to drink.

ALL IMO

 

[Tortoise]

These are not contradictory statements.

Statement 1 is what KR says happened the night JOK died.

Statement 2 is QUESTION KR asked her attorney after the fact, when she was trying to understand what could have happened. A statement has a period at the end, not a question mark. She wasn’t making a statement, but rather running through hypothetical scenarios out of panic and confusion.

The content of what she said is contradictory.

If she thought he went inside the house she wouldn't have thought she hit him, and not only that, she could have asked a multitude of questions on the way to or outside the house when she found him. 'What time did John leave?' 'Did you see him leaving?' 'Who was he with?' 'What happened?' But she didn't ask anything about John being inside, at the party. She knew he'd been alive outside when she asked JMcC how long it takes to die in the cold, IMO.

I wouldn't call it confusion, but I agree she was panicking, about the consequences of having left John to die in the snow.

IMO

 

[nodamselindistress]

CourtTV is reporting that 4 jurors have now been seated in the KR Trial

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

The content of what she said is contradictory.

If she thought he went inside the house she wouldn't have thought she hit him, and not only that, she could have asked a multitude of questions on the way to or outside the house when she found him. 'What time did John leave?' 'Did you see him leaving?' 'Who was he with?' 'What happened?' But she didn't ask anything about John being inside, at the party. She knew he'd been alive outside when she asked JMcC how long it takes to die in the cold, IMO.

I wouldn't call it confusion, but I agree she was panicking, about the consequences of having left John to die in the snow.

IMO

And how do you reconcile accident reconstructions saying it couldn't have happened? Just ignore it?

 

[Linda7NJ]

And how do you reconcile accident reconstructions saying it couldn't have happened? Just ignore it?

They weren’t given all the data
They did not test every variable
They have some sort of relationship with the defense

 

[Linda7NJ]

DBM

 

[Tortoise]

And how do you reconcile accident reconstructions saying it couldn't have happened? Just ignore it?

I would think they've misjudged it, just like a lot of jurors in the first jury thought.

IMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I would think they've misjudged it, just like a lot of jurors in the first jury thought.

IMO

If only someone had taken pictures of the crime scene but I guess that's forgivable since there was snow on the ground. JMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

They weren’t given all the data
They did not test every variable
They have some sort of relationship with the defense

Where was an accident reconstruction expert for the CW?
What data weren't they given?
Why would they lie to the FBI?
Just because someone has a relationship with the defense doesn't mean they're wrong. That's that LE bias clearly showing through.

JMO

 

[cocomod]

If only someone would have checked the neighbors ring cameras, if only someone would have interviewed the people in the house, if only someone would have saved the Sally Port video in a secure manner so that it could be authenticated, if only someone would have followed basic procedures... We could go on and on and on with the whatifs - but bottom line, they can't prove she hit him BARD.

 

[Tortoise]

If only someone had taken pictures of the crime scene but I guess that's forgivable since there was snow on the ground. JMO

What were you hoping to have seen?

Tire tracks beneath the snow, all mushed up with everyone's footprints, in the efforts to save John's life?

 

[Linda7NJ]

If only someone had taken pictures of the crime scene but I guess that's forgivable since there was snow on the ground. JMO

Read the Independent Audit yourself.

Canton police audit released: Full 200-page report, analysis and reaction

An independent audit of the Canton Police Department commissioned amid the backlash over how it handled the investigation into Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe‘s death and the Sandra Birchmore case was released Tuesday. The audit began last year and was conducted by the investigative firm 5...

www.nbcboston.com

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

What were you hoping to have seen?

Tire tracks beneath the snow, all mushed up with everyone's footprints, in the efforts to save John's life?

Gee, I don't know, maybe where the body actually was. Then I could hear someone testify science based reasoning for what happened. Not some unprepared goober Trooper saying "it just does". And the CW coming up with all these excuses for why video is missing, evidence wasn't properly handled, crime scenes left unattended, etc.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Read the Independent Audit yourself.

Canton police audit released: Full 200-page report, analysis and reaction

An independent audit of the Canton Police Department commissioned amid the backlash over how it handled the investigation into Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe‘s death and the Sandra Birchmore case was released Tuesday. The audit began last year and was conducted by the investigative firm 5...

www.nbcboston.com

I did, as @cocomod said:

If only someone would have checked the neighbors ring cameras, if only someone would have interviewed the people in the house, if only someone would have saved the Sally Port video in a secure manner so that it could be authenticated, if only someone would have followed basic procedures...

but keep on excusing their failings because you "think" something happened. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Gee, I don't know, maybe where the body actually was. Then I could hear someone testify science based reasoning for what happened. Not some unprepared goober Trooper saying "it just does". And the CW coming up with all these excuses for why video is missing, evidence wasn't properly handled, crime scenes left unattended, etc.

Well, one foot to the right, three feet to the left, two feet closer to the road, does the precise spot have a bearing on whether she could have hit him? How did the accident reconstructionists manage to do a reconstruction without a photograph of the spot?