MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[nodamselindistress]

Evidently the hearing scheduled for 11AM is now on for 10AM

 

[mrjitty]

Have you considered that there is a good reason they did NOT photograph the tail light beforehand? I have watched so many cases on TV and the police almost always photo evidence when they first receive it. That, IMHO, is police investigation 101.

Well sure. Which is why i said "but alas ..."

The question of guilt/innocence would have been resolved by that photo, but they don't have it for whatever reason.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Canton hires national firm to audit police department following Karen Read, Sandra Birchmore cases​

The audit​

The project aims to establish for the community both “what the department is doing well, and more importantly, what the department could improve upon.”

The scope, including to town documents, includes a deep review of “policies, procedures, and regulations” regarding the department’s day-to-day work, including whether its crime scene protocols, professional standards and procedures, hierarchical structure and organization, hiring and training practices, and evidence processing and handling are in compliance with industry standards and procedures.

The audit will also review the department’s finances, its management and culture, as well as its interactions with the public and its governing bodies including its protection of citizen privacy and personal information, adherence to conflict of interest laws and regulations, the effectiveness and organization of the department’s oversight by the town select board, and how it handles civil rights complaints.

The audit is to also include recommendations for “necessary improvements to all aspects of the Police Department.”

Canton hires national firm to audit police department following Karen Read, Sandra Birchmore cases

A prominent firm has inked a contract to audit the Canton Police Department, an agency beset by its proximity in two high-profile Massachusetts criminal cases: the murder investigation into Karen R…

www.bostonherald.com

I wonder if this was a result of the FBI investigation and their findings. It was reported that no charges were laid after the FBI investigation, however, they must have had recommendations for them to pursue.
MOO

 

[turaj]

Evidently the hearing scheduled for 11AM is now on for 10AM

what are they discussing today? Last I heard it was see you next week.

 

[nodamselindistress]

TB and KR texts - CW believes the text messages show KR's consciousness of guilt

 

[Wishbone]

I wonder if this was a result of the FBI investigation and their findings. It was reported that no charges were laid after the FBI investigation, however, they must have had recommendations for them to pursue.
MOO

Canton votes to audit police department amid controversy over Karen Read case ​

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2024/11/05/independent-firm-chosen-canton-police-department-audit/ ​

 

[Derph]

I suspect the CW will do a much better job on the vehicle impact investigation and the data at trial. However there are two glaring issues with their case IMO.

1. How to deal with Proctor?
2. No pathologist to confirm injury caused by vehicle?

Especially on point 2, could they simply not find anyone who would confirm this?

It's not just Proctor who received disciplinary action!! Bukhenik and Tully were also disciplined for failure to supervise properly as they did nothing about the Proctor texts. Tully was transferred out of the DA's office in Norfolk and lost vacation days, while Bukenik just lost vacation days.

Kevin Albert was disciplined for drunkenly losing his fire-arm while out drinking with Proctor. Another glaring red flag in having Proctor investigate this case properly is he definitely knew the Alberts and lied about that. Just another conflict of interest that we have to ignore and roll with.

It might be easier to just list the police officers who WEREN'T under Internal Affair's investigations. And these very same officers were involved in the Sandra Birchmore investigation and we know what a thoughtful, thorough, honest job they did on that case. How anyone can take these Keystone Coppers seriously is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If they have the taillight evidence then how do they explain the extra pieces of taillight left over after assembling the taillight in the lab?

- Leftovers from other accidents on the roadway -

Why & how would those “planting evidence” do extra unrelated pieces?

 

[Tortoise]

- Leftovers from other accidents on the roadway -

Why & how would those “planting evidence” do extra unrelated pieces?

I re-watched the lab technician's testimony, and cross-exam, and couldn't find any mention of it. Unless it was a different witness, or day.

 

[Derph]

Commonwealth’s Motion in Limine to Preclude Reference To and Redact The Manner of Death Contained on the Victim’s Death Certificate has been DENIED!!! Wow! A rare win for the Defense!!

 

[Wishbone]

- Leftovers from other accidents on the roadway -

Why & how would those “planting evidence” do extra unrelated pieces?

Because the first pieces submitted were not from her car.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

- Leftovers from other accidents on the roadway -

Why & how would those “planting evidence” do extra unrelated pieces?

How many accidents do you think have happened in a neighborhood directly in front of the Alberts' house? Quite a stretch. JMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Commonwealth’s Motion in Limine to Preclude Reference To and Redact The Manner of Death Contained on the Victim’s Death Certificate has been DENIED!!! Wow! A rare win for the Defense!!
View attachment 574512

I'm shocked too. If someone was murdered than why would you want to keep that from the jury on a murder trial? Doesn't really make much sense. JMO

 

[angkg]

- Leftovers from other accidents on the roadway -

Why & how would those “planting evidence” do extra unrelated pieces?

So, there were more accidents where the taillight evidence flew all the way over the lawn.

 

[jepop]

Not even the ME would rule JOF's manner of death a homicide so good luck finding a pathologist to confirm his injuries caused by a vehicle-- including KR's Lexus! Just sayin..

No DNA, skin or blood on any of the shards progressively recovered from the lawn. Zero. Yet the cw claim those pieces caused the symmetrical, deep animal like scratches on JOK's right arm. No JOK blood or skin on tail light area. None. Just some JOK touch dna. Meaningless, as JOK and Karen were both around that car a lot. Ofcourse other areas of the rear area of Lexus were not tested because his DNA would likely have been there too, innocently and innocuous.

Karen Read was lying on John and crying in horror and grief the moment they found him, and then attempting resuscitation with Kerry, whilst JMc stayed back. ( As an aside, compare Karen's genuine love and grief -it is undeniable from the audio and video in trial x1 - with JMc's 911 call). Moo

Later that day she could also have easily transferred JOK DNA to that area of the Lexus when examining the apparent much smaller crack. Either way, JOk's DNA on the rear gate of the Lexus is proof of nothing. Looking at the arm wounds, one would at the very least expect skin. Jmo

Oh, and the ME didn't swab the arm wounds or show any interest whatsoever in understanding their possible origin. Per her testimony, she did not know what to make of them and left it at that. No seeking out a second opinion or doing some research. What kind of ME is so incurious about manner of death? About circumstances surrounding death? Does she just let the investigating detective decide how she does her job? No independence? What a joke this prosecution is.

Oh yes, no bruising after the massive impact that is supposed to have shattered the tail light and spread it all over the lawn. It's been pointed out over and over again ad nauseum. Yet unbelievably, apparently nine out of the 12 original jurors thought she should be convicted of charge 2, manslaughter. Ie they must have agreed JOK was hit by a vehicle BARD on the basis of...??? One can be thankful to the three that applied their reasoning powers to the evidence. Hopefully this time around the jurors will be less affected by their emotions. Jmo

Ebm grammar

 

[jepop]

I tend to agree this is one of the biggest oddities in the whole case. I'm not sure it is incriminating, because if you really did some crimes, why would you make these calls then delete them? But she clearly sought to conceal something.

MOO

I don't think it's an oddity. It speaks to her credibility imo. She has no problem lying under oath. Makes it hard to know when she is being truthful. She lied about KR saying repeatedly ' I hit him, I hit him' Jmo. Ofcourse it's up to the jurors to assess her credibility.

 

[ch_13]

No DNA, skin or blood on any of the shards progressively recovered from the lawn. Zero. Yet the cw claim those pieces caused the symmetrical, deep animal like scratches on JOK's right arm. No JOK blood or skin on tail light area. None. Just some JOK touch dna. Meaningless, as JOK and Karen were both around that car a lot. Ofcourse other areas of the rear area of Lexus were not tested because his DNA would likely have been there too, innocently and innocuous.

Karen Read was lying on John and crying in horror and grief the moment they found him, and then attempting resuscitation with Kerry, whilst JMc stayed back. ( As an aside, compare Karen's genuine love and grief -it is undeniable from the audio and video in trial x1 - with JMc's 911 call). Moo

Later that day she could also have easily transferred JOK DNA to that area of the Lexus when examining the apparent much smaller crack. Either way, JOk's DNA on the rear gate of the Lexus is proof of nothing. Looking at the arm wounds, one would at the very least expect skin. Jmo

Oh, and the ME didn't swab the arm wounds or show any interest whatsoever in understanding their possible origin. Per her testimony, she did not know what to make of them and left it at that. No seeking out a second opinion or doing some research. What kind of ME is so incurious about manner of death? About circumstances surrounding death? Does she just let the investigating detective decide how she does her job? No independence? What a joke this prosecution is.

Oh yes, no bruising after the massive impact that is supposed to have shattered the tail light and spread it all over the lawn. It's been pointed out over and over again ad nauseum. Yet unbelievably, apparently nine out of the 12 original jurors thought she should be convicted of charge 2, manslaughter. Ie they must have agreed JOK was hit by a vehicle BARD on the basis of...??? One can be thankful to the three that applied their reasoning powers to the evidence. Hopefully this time around the jurors will be less affected by their emotions. Jmo

Ebm grammar

Also, the only damage was to the taillight. The back of the Lexus was otherwise untouched. Even though modern cars are designed with crumple zones that collapse to absorb impact.

I don't know what the CW will say in the upcoming trial, but in the last one Trooper Paul claimed it was because the only part of JO's body that touched the car was his arm (even though the arm wasn't bruised). Yet that same impact was enough to throw him back 10 feet onto the grass. As the ARCCA engineers pointed out, the physics of that just doesn't work. JO's center of mass would have to make contact with the car to get thrown back that way.

 

[jepop]

Also, the only damage was to the taillight. The back of the Lexus was otherwise untouched. Even though modern cars are designed with crumple zones that collapse to absorb impact.

I don't know what the CW will say in the upcoming trial, but in the last one Trooper Paul claimed it was because the only part of JO's body that touched the car was his arm (even though the arm wasn't bruised). Yet that same impact was enough to throw him back 10 feet onto the grass. As the ARCCA engineers pointed out, the physics of that just doesn't work. JO's center of mass would have to make contact with the car to get thrown back that way.

Yes, agree with all that but to me even without ARCA, JO's body does not lie. No bruising and the nature of those arm wounds (and the impossibility imo of plastic shards without any traces of blood or skin causing them ) is enough on it's own to show the Lexus and its tail light were not involved. Moo

 

[Sustained]

Yes, agree with all that but to me even without ARCA, JO's body does not lie. No bruising and the nature of those arm wounds (and the impossibility imo of plastic shards without any traces of blood or skin causing them ) is enough on it's own to show the Lexus and its tail light were not involved. Moo

How much bruising would there be if Read just bumped JOK, he lost his balance and fell backward onto the ice and snow ? Maybe JOK threw the Waterfall glass in anger at the Lexus and it broke the taillight. Maybe Read continued to backup over JOK after he was already down. She seemed to think she hit him but now says she didn't.

Point is the only two there were JOK and Read's now saying she didn't hit him. Both of them were intoxicated.
Does anyone really think Read was in control of the vehicle after drinking so much ? Or that she even knew JOK was
possibly behind her SUV ?

Only Read knows and everyone else including ARCCA is speculating.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

How much bruising would there be if Read just bumped JOK, he lost his balance and fell backward onto the ice and snow ? Maybe JOK threw the Waterfall glass in anger at the Lexus and it broke the taillight. Maybe Read continued to backup over JOK after he was already down. She seemed to think she hit him but now says she didn't.

Point is the only two there were JOK and Read's now saying she didn't him. All else is pure speculation.

She never said "I hit him" or that "I think I hit him". Do you have a link to that information? Thanks in advance.