MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[Forest_Wood]

I haven't watched the documentary yet but don't have high hopes that it will tell me anything I didn't know from watching the trial. I learned the hard way with the Paradise Lost documentaries that all documentaries have a agenda and none are without bias. No one should rely solely on a documentary for their evidence and impressions in my opinion.

I agree. Watching the trial in its full context is the way to form accurate opinions in this case.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree. Watching the trial in its full context is the way to form accurate opinions in this case.

I am not watching the doco. I think i just prefer to watch T2 and go back to T1 as necessary.

 

[Linda7NJ]

More good news for the CW!!

 

[Derph]

Another point here. While BH did get a new phone/number the day before the preservation order (see his examination above), that motion was filed by the defence a whole week before that.

So I don't see anything obviously nefarious here. Knowing he could lose his phone, he went and got a new one. He was subsequently served with a preservation order. But then the D lost the motion, he dumped the phone - as he was allowed to do.

Have i missed something?

Source

MOO

If only it was just Higgins who got rid of his phone that's one thing and possibly a big nothing but it's not. It's just an amazing coincidence that on the exact same day another person, Brian Albert destroyed his phone and got a new one as well. I could maybe see that if that was the only coincidental thing that happened with people in and around the murder scene from that night, but it's not. It's just one of many. And there are way, way too many unbelievable things and way, way too many perfect coincidences involving the people who were around JOK that night to make me believe that some or all of them were up to something nefarious.

And again because it bears repeating over and over....The only people who destroyed cell phones, deleted texts, made multiple butt dials, hid, retired, worked on their day off, rehomed their dog, tore up the basement of their house and had it redone, sold their house for well below market value, repeatedly lied on the stand, got fired for their actions in the investigation, lost video footage, manipulated video footage, etc, etc, etc...were NOT Karen Read.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If only it was just Higgins who got rid of his phone that's one thing and possibly a big nothing but it's not. It's just an amazing coincidence that on the exact same day another person, Brian Albert destroyed his phone and got a new one as well. I could maybe see that if that was the only coincidental thing that happened with people in and around the murder scene from that night, but it's not. It's just one of many. And there are way, way too many unbelievable things and way, way too many perfect coincidences involving the people who were around JOK that night to make me believe that some or all of them were up to something nefarious.

And again because it bears repeating over and over....The only people who destroyed cell phones, deleted texts, made multiple butt dials, hid, retired, worked on their day off, rehomed their dog, tore up the basement of their house and had it redone, sold their house for well below market value, repeatedly lied on the stand, got fired for their actions in the investigation, lost video footage, manipulated video footage, etc, etc, etc...were NOT Karen Read.

I

If only it was just Higgins who got rid of his phone that's one thing and possibly a big nothing but it's not. It's just an amazing coincidence that on the exact same day another person, Brian Albert destroyed his phone and got a new one as well. I could maybe see that if that was the only coincidental thing that happened with people in and around the murder scene from that night, but it's not. It's just one of many. And there are way, way too many unbelievable things and way, way too many perfect coincidences involving the people who were around JOK that night to make me believe that some or all of them were up to something nefarious.

And again because it bears repeating over and over....The only people who destroyed cell phones, deleted texts, made multiple butt dials, hid, retired, worked on their day off, rehomed their dog, tore up the basement of their house and had it redone, sold their house for well below market value, repeatedly lied on the stand, got fired for their actions in the investigation, lost video footage, manipulated video footage, etc, etc, etc...were NOT Karen Read.

The accused has changed her story more times than I care to count.
Nothing is more sketchy than that

All IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Would you trust the LE in this area right now if something like this happened to you or a family member? I sure wouldn't be able to trust that they would investigate fairly after everything revealed here. So yes, in my opinion, it is about the cops as much as KR. They failed in their duty and several LE were reprimanded, disciplined and fired for that very reason.
MOO

I think probably KR was not charged appropriately…overcharged…
but is ultimately responsible for his death. There should be consequences for driving drunk and recklessly causing someone’s death.
She should not be allowed to walk simply because everybody is, appropriately I think, upset about the corrupt police in Boston. Where is the justice for the victim? He is lost in all of this circus.
Try KR.
Then clean up the police.
I don’t buy all the conspiracy stuff in this case. It is a version of a new tactic by defense lawyers to set the world on fire to distract public opinion. Paint the accused as a victim of something, and court online sympathy. Taint the jury pool. Check the Murdaugh trial, check the Delphi case, check the Idaho murder case.


Opinion

 

[Derph]

Another day another biased decision! The Defense's motion to exclude the testimony of Dr Welcher and request for a Voir Dire has been, surprise, DENIED.

 

[detectivewannab]

I think probably KR was not charged appropriately…overcharged…
but is ultimately responsible for his death. There should be consequences for driving drunk and recklessly causing someone’s death.
She should not be allowed to walk simply because everybody is, appropriately I think, upset about the corrupt police in Boston. Where is the justice for the victim? He is lost in all of this circus.
Try KR.
Then clean up the police.
I don’t buy all the conspiracy stuff in this case. It is a version of a new tactic by defense lawyers to set the world on fire to distract public opinion. Paint the accused as a victim of something, and court online sympathy. Taint the jury pool. Check the Murdaugh trial, check the Delphi case, check the Idaho murder case.


Opinion

Well said. This is how I feel.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I

The accused has changed her story more times than I care to count.
Nothing is more sketchy than that

All IMO

Nope

 

[Oakland CA]

I

The accused has changed her story more times than I care to count.
Nothing is more sketchy than that

All IMO

Yep

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think probably KR was not charged appropriately…overcharged…
but is ultimately responsible for his death. There should be consequences for driving drunk and recklessly causing someone’s death.
She should not be allowed to walk simply because everybody is, appropriately I think, upset about the corrupt police in Boston. Where is the justice for the victim? He is lost in all of this circus.
Try KR.
Then clean up the police.
I don’t buy all the conspiracy stuff in this case. It is a version of a new tactic by defense lawyers to set the world on fire to distract public opinion. Paint the accused as a victim of something, and court online sympathy. Taint the jury pool. Check the Murdaugh trial, check the Delphi case, check the Idaho murder case.


Opinion

I agree there should be consequences for drunk driving, not just for Karen Read but for each and every one of those law enforcement personnel who were driving while drinking too, and who condoned such behaviour by letting Karen drive drunk.
But there simply isn't enough evidence for me to convict Karen on reckless driving causing death or any of the charges. The first prosecution was a farce from beginning to end. Let's see what concrete evidence the CW produce this time around to be able to either get a conviction or not. I also agree there has been no justice for the victim, but not because of Karen Read. That falls solely on law enforcement who were caught red-handed at messing up this investigation from the onset, resulting in a trial where both the jury, and the public, have not been able to come to a solid conclusion.
MOO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I

The accused has changed her story more times than I care to count.
Nothing is more sketchy than that

All IMO

Please point to a direct statement, from KR, on record, that contradicts another direct statement from her. So far, every ‘story change’ that has been brought up in this thread has been based on hearsay - what witnesses from 34 Fairview claim she said.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I agree there should be consequences for drunk driving, not just for Karen Read but for each and every one of those law enforcement personnel who were driving while drinking too, and who condoned such behaviour by letting Karen drive drunk.
But there simply isn't enough evidence for me to convict Karen on reckless driving causing death or any of the charges. The first prosecution was a farce to beginning to end. Let's see what concrete evidence they produce this time around to be able to either get a conviction or not. I also agree there has been no justice for the victim, but not because of Karen Read. That falls solely on law enforcement who were caught red-handed at messing up this investigation from the onset.
MOO

They were called to an unattended death, not a hit & run.
I think they did a decent job in terrible conditions. Was it perfect? No.
It factually changed nothing.

Lack of preparedness & training for evidence collection in a blizzard, yeah.
Deliberate conspiracy to frame KR?
It’s laughable

IMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

They were called to an unattended death, not a hit & run.
I think they did a decent job in terrible conditions. Was it perfect? No.
It factually changed nothing.

Lack of preparedness & training for evidence collection in a blizzard, yeah.
Deliberate conspiracy to frame KR?
It’s laughable

IMO

This is excusing horrible police work. Thin blue line indeed eh?
Why is there a lack of preparedness & training for working in a blizzard when they are in a northeast area that is constantly filled with snow?????????????

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I agree there should be consequences for drunk driving, not just for Karen Read but for each and every one of those law enforcement personnel who were driving while drinking too, and who condoned such behaviour by letting Karen drive drunk.
But there simply isn't enough evidence for me to convict Karen on reckless driving causing death or any of the charges. The first prosecution was a farce from beginning to end. Let's see what concrete evidence the CW produce this time around to be able to either get a conviction or not. I also agree there has been no justice for the victim, but not because of Karen Read. That falls solely on law enforcement who were caught red-handed at messing up this investigation from the onset, resulting in a trial where both the jury, and the public, have not been able to come to a solid conclusion.
MOO

I can agree with a lot of this.
I do think LE really messed up the investigation. I don’t believe the crazy conspiracy stuff.
Cops shouldn’t be driving drunk either.
I do think KR hit him.

 

[thebedbug]

I think probably KR was not charged appropriately…overcharged…
but is ultimately responsible for his death. There should be consequences for driving drunk and recklessly causing someone’s death.
She should not be allowed to walk simply because everybody is, appropriately I think, upset about the corrupt police in Boston. Where is the justice for the victim? He is lost in all of this circus.
Try KR.
Then clean up the police.
I don’t buy all the conspiracy stuff in this case. It is a version of a new tactic by defense lawyers to set the world on fire to distract public opinion. Paint the accused as a victim of something, and court online sympathy. Taint the jury pool. Check the Murdaugh trial, check the Delphi case, check the Idaho murder case.


Opinion

You might be right, but I'm not a expert on charging.

I'm pretty sure she knew she hit him.
I suspect (at some point) she kind of realized she didn't just graze him.
I'm sure it wasn't a planned action. "Just" the result of a moment of rage/drunkeness.

But... I think she did make some very bad decisions after hitting him. Things do get weird. If she had not driven home and told nobody, but instead got out and called 911 or even called someone at the party when she got home to check on him... or basically done anything but do nothing for 5+ hours - is he still alive?

And, whatever she tells herself today or tries to forget or convince herself that maybe it's not how she remembers or that she doesn't remember... what she allowed her original defense to do with trying to imply various other people murdered John (especially Colin Albert) is... well it makes her... words that I won't type here.

It's one thing to allude to other possibilities, it's another to allow her defense to accuse people she knows did not do this.

* to that end, I think her defense may actually be helped by the judge's recent ruling on that.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is excusing horrible police work. Thin blue line indeed eh?
Why is there a lack of preparedness & training for working in a blizzard when they are in a northeast area that is constantly filled with snow?????????????

A hit & run, of a pedestrian, during a blizzard with zero video or witnesses is INCREDIBLE RARE.

Remember, this wasn’t called in as a hit a run. This was “found unresponsive in the snow”
It was through police investigation it was found to be a hit & run, Missing shoe.
Law enforcement went back to find the missing shoe.
All IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Please point to a direct statement, from KR, on record, that contradicts another direct statement from her. So far, every ‘story change’ that has been brought up in this thread has been based on hearsay - what witnesses from 34 Fairview claim she said.

Technically those statements may not be hearsay in this context. e.g statements against interest

criminal procedure | Legal Information Institute

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

A hit & run, of a pedestrian, during a blizzard with zero video or witnesses is INCREDIBLE RARE.

Remember, this wasn’t called in as a hit a run. This was “found unresponsive in the snow”
It was through police investigation it was found to be a hit & run, Missing shoe.
Law enforcement went back to find the missing shoe.
All IMO

There was video. Where's the library video? Where's the RING footage? Where's the correct and unaltered sallyport video? Law enforcement went back HOURS later to collect evidence after leaving the scene unguarded. If my relative died in this manner I wouldn't be so "ho hum, oh well, they tried their best! they just arent used to snow!" about how they mismanaged the crime scene and evidence.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Technically those statements may not be hearsay in this context. e.g statements against interest

criminal procedure | Legal Information Institute

www.law.cornell.edu

Correct, I should have been clear - I used hearsay to mean ‘what others have said’. I am asking Linda for an example of Karen contradicting Karen, not 34 Fairview folk (JM, BH, CA, BA, JN, etc.) contradicting Karen.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/hearsay#:~:text=unverified%2C%20unofficial%20information%20gained%20or,a%20malicious%20hearsay

“Unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge”