MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[Derph]

Simply untrue.

The reason there’s an audit and FBI investigation isn’t because the defense said something was wrong. It’s because there was actual evidence of mishandling that needed to be reviewed. Defense attorneys claim misconduct all the time. It doesn’t automatically trigger an investigation.

We’re not taking about minor clerical errors. We’re talking about missing and altered evidence, questionable timelines, conflicts of interest, and undisclosed relationships between investigators and witnesses at 34 Fairview.

If this level of scrutiny were normal, we would see audits and FBI investigations in every murder case. We don’t. That’s the point.

As always all MOO unless substantiated by source.

The Defense had absolutely NO IDEA there was an FBI investigation into the JOK murder right up until the moment they were given OVER 3000 PAGES of their findings!!!! The Defense solicited NOTHING from the FBI up until that point. And that's just what they found in the JOK investigation. <modsnip - different cases>

What about all the drunk driving cops? Or what about the undisputed FACT that former disgraced trooper proctor went out drinking with Kevin Albert, another cop, who got so wasted that he lost his firearm? Or how about when Chris Albert who led police on a 30hr manhunt after he killed someone while driving drunk and only served 6 MONTHS in prison!

How anyone can just sit there and blatantly ignore these facts is beyond my comprehension. There is a systemic pattern of cover-ups and shady police activity and behavior that goes back decades with some of the same names popping up over and over again. These aren't single one-off screw-ups and mistakes. No! There are cops, friends of cops, friends of judges ( judge cannone's BROTHER defended Chris Albert on his murder charge) all getting preferential treatment whenever they brake the law in this county in Mass. It really isn't a big leap at all to think this specific group of State Troopers, Canton PD, and Norfolk County justice officials can work together to cover-up another murder. They've done it before.

 

[Linda7NJ]

So close! Connections get you cop friends that don't come into a fellow cop's house when a body is on their lawn and they are up in bed too busy to be bothered. JMO

The forth amendment matters

 

[kuromiiiilove]

And while you’re add it -
Explain also how the FBI and the district attorney, the state of Massachusetts found no such evidence.

Sure! I will try to break this down as simply as possible.

1) an internal audit isn’t a legal ruling. It is a review conducted by the same system being questioned. It doesn’t hold the weight of an independent court ruling.
2) Again, the idea the FBI’s involvement somehow proves nothing was wrong is backwards. The FBI doesn’t waste resources on cases where the defendant is just complaining or trying to shift blame. Their very involvement confirms that concerns were serious enough to warrant federal attention. That said, the FBI ‘finding no evidence’ does not mean the evidence does not exist. Neither you nor I know the scope of information the FBI was allowed to review. Without knowing exactly what they had access to, it is impossible to claim with certainty that all misconduct was ruled out. What we DO know is that trooper Proctor was fired as a result of the audit and FBI review.
I will finish with this: Just like the FBI needed evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to confirm misconduct, KR is also entitled to that same standard of proof before being convicted. You simply cannot demand ironclad evidence from one side while accepting speculation from the other.

As always, all MOO unless substantiated by source.

 

[Derph]

In theory, if JO's body was found in my front yard I'm sure LE would have questions for me to answer and most likely a house search as wel

The whole neighborhood would have cops knocking on their doors. There is a reason it's one of the 1st things investigators say to the regular cops. " Canvass the neighborhood and see if anybody saw or heard anything:"

 

[Leilei]

In theory, if JO's body was found in my front yard I'm sure LE would have questions for me to answer and most likely a house search as well. JMOO

One would certainly think so.
But things sure seem to be different for certain folks in Canton.
IJS and IMO.

 

[keek]

The whole neighborhood would have cops knocking on their doors. There is a reason it's one of the 1st things investigators say to the regular cops. " Canvass the neighborhood and see if anybody saw or heard anything:"

Nothing close was done in this case. ALL had each other's backs, seemingly some without even knowing why, but they sure ruined their careers. Love it.

 

[Leilei]

PROBABLE CAUSE matters
There was none.

Key to me - detectives didn't even ask permission to search the house.
They could have, probably should have, but didn't.
Just sketchy, IMO.
I don't trust those people, and I don't trust ANYONE that Proctor was involved with.
Again, IMO.

 

[Leilei]

Nothing close was done in this case. ALL had each other's backs, seemingly some without even knowing why, but they sure ruined their careers. Love it.

Wonder if Proctor ever got that gift that was promised to him? When I worked for State Court, NOBODY was allowed to accept any type of "gift", even down to an iced coffee. That included our law enforcement, judges, anyone who worked for State government.

All that super-duper investigating and all he got was a lousy pink slip.
IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The saliva returned with pig DNA as in from dog treats or chews

Or bacon with breakfast
Or ribs

 

[cocomod]

Lol ... I'm not demanding anything. But when 10+ people testify that JOK never came in the house and unless they are ALL lying, JOK never came into the house. You can speculate all you want. You could also say Brian Albert came outside with Chloe, yanked JOK out of Read's SUV, and they both attacked him viciously and killed him.

There is also a text thread with the McCabe's and the Albert's that instructed them to "Tell them the guy never went into the house". This happened because the shoddy investigation didn't interview any of the people that night and didn't interview them at the police department separately. So, how do we know that he didn't go in the house? There was definitely collusion in their testimonies - which means, can we know that they are telling the truth or just backing up each other's stories?

 

[Linda7NJ]

One would certainly think so.
But things sure seem to be different for certain folks in Canton.
IJS and IMO.

The Forth Amendment is for everyone.

 

[keek]

There is also a text thread with the McCabe's and the Albert's that instructed them to "Tell them the guy never went into the house". This happened because the shoddy investigation didn't interview any of the people that night and didn't interview them at the police department separately. So, how do we know that he didn't go in the house? There was definitely collusion in their testimonies - which means, can we know that they are telling the truth or just backing up each other's stories?

I remember his face, Matt McCabe, when the lawyer read out his thought hidden or deleted texts, regarding just that.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Wonder if Proctor ever got that gift that was promised to him? When I worked for State Court, NOBODY was allowed to accept any type of "gift", even down to an iced coffee. That included our law enforcement, judges, anyone who worked for State government.

All that super-duper investigating and all he got was a lousy pink slip.
IMO.

He got the best gift of all in the end with that pink slip! Like your job, I'm pretty sure Proctor knew he was not allowed to accept gifts, which is why he said, "Get one for Elizabeth". He's a sly one.

 

[Sustained]

There is also a text thread with the McCabe's and the Albert's that instructed them to "Tell them the guy never went into the house". This happened because the shoddy investigation didn't interview any of the people that night and didn't interview them at the police department separately. So, how do we know that he didn't go in the house? There was definitely collusion in their testimonies - which means, can we know that they are telling the truth or just backing up each other's stories?

Matt McCabe testified that comment was made in reference to what to tell a news outlet.

On what planet would 10 people risk committing perjury and keep their stories straight all this time ?

What injuries to JOK's body indicate he was in a scuffle ? If he had gone in, been attacked for some reason by Chloe, fallen backward and hit his head, why wouldn't anyone in the household just call 911 to get him assistance. It is so unrealistic to believe either Brian Albert or Brian Higgins beat him up and threw him on the lawn by the street.

Both Brians have LE connections - even if there had been an incident and JOK had ended up fracturing his skull, why wouldn't either Brian have called 911, said JOK started a fight, and called it self-defense. And if there was a fight, wouldn't you think the rest of the late night partiers would have heard it and come running to check it out ?

It is far more realistic to believe an intoxicated angry Read hit JOK either accidentally or on purpose and fled the scene.
Read's BAC was 0.09 at 8am the next morning meaning it was substantially higher at ~12:30am. She should consider herself lucky she didn't kill someone else on the way to and from 34 Fairview.

As for the injuries not matching what would 'normally' be expected in a car accident, all accidents are different and both Trooper Paul and ARCCA have not seen every injury in every accident. Without actually witnessing what Read did with the vehicle and how JOK might have fallen, we'll never know. Even Read might not know.

Either she hit JOK or she didn't. I believe she did and hopefully the CW can present a better case this time around and get some semblance of justice for the O'Keefe family.

And I'll add if she gets convicted of murder or manslaughter, there will always be some folks who will think she got railroaded and is innocent. Same thing happened in the Steven Avery case, i.e. corrupt cops, evidence planting, collusion, perjury. To this day (almost 20 years after murder), there are folks who think Kathleen Zellner will get him out of prison.

 

[Tortoise]

Or bacon with breakfast
Or ribs

What products contain pork?

Cosmetics and toiletries can also contain pork in the form of glycerine, keratin, collagen, and tallow. Common products like lipstick, shaving cream, toothpaste, hand lotion, bath soap, and shampoos may contain these ingredients. Pork is also hidden in detergents, cleansers, dish liquids, soaps, and makeup.

Got Pork? Finding Out Which Soaps Contain Animal Fats – The online encyclopedia for carnivorous connoisseurs

redtablemeats.com

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I really wish we could get back to talking about the case instead of arguing with people who either haven’t followed it or never provide factual proof of their beliefs.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What products contain pork?

Cosmetics and toiletries can also contain pork in the form of glycerine, keratin, collagen, and tallow. Common products like lipstick, shaving cream, toothpaste, hand lotion, bath soap, and shampoos may contain these ingredients. Pork is also hidden in detergents, cleansers, dish liquids, soaps, and makeup.

Got Pork? Finding Out Which Soaps Contain Animal Fats – The online encyclopedia for carnivorous connoisseurs

redtablemeats.com

Very interesting- I did not know that!!

 

[TDoc72]

This trial is not about how bad the cops are in Boston.
The entire population can hold a torch and pitchfork parade against the police once this trial is over if they want.

It shouldn’t be but it is. A bad investigation & horrible basic evidence collection led to this. A lack of photos and using a neighbor’s red solo cups at the very least. IMO.

Two jurors have been seated (a man and a woman) after yesterday's selection process.
This was out of a pool of 62 prospective jurors who made it as far as the interview process.

They will aim to secure 16 total.

Karen Read trial jury selection begins with 2 jurors seated

Two jurors have now been seated for Karen Read's high-profile second trial in Dedham, Massachusetts.

www.cbsnews.com

They used a few alternates last time. I’d take 6 for a case this high profile.

Another point here. While BH did get a new phone/number the day before the preservation order (see his examination above), that motion was filed by the defence a whole week before that.

So I don't see anything obviously nefarious here. Knowing he could lose his phone, he went and got a new one. He was subsequently served with a preservation order. But then the D lost the motion, he dumped the phone - as he was allowed to do.

Have i missed something?

Source

MOO

It may have been legal but I find it shady. If BH or Procotor were investigating a suspect that did this exact thing, I’d bet they would find it shady as well.

 

[Forest_Wood]

t shouldn’t be but it is. A bad investigation & horrible basic evidence collection led to this. A lack of photos and using a neighbor’s red solo cups at the very least. IMO.

Those red solo cups ... did they come from a different neighbor of the Alberts? You'd think the cops would have asked the Alberts for something to gather evidence in instead of asking a different neighbor! Or maybe it was the other cop across the street they got the cups from? The one that saw nothing on his camera so wiped it out. Such a weird way to conduct any investigation!
MOO

 

[keek]

Those red solo cups ... did they come from a different neighbor of the Alberts? You'd think the cops would have asked the Alberts for something to gather evidence in instead of asking a different neighbor! Or maybe it was the other cop across the street they got the cups from? The one that saw nothing on his camera so wiped it out. Such a weird way to conduct any investigation!
MOO

It was from a neighbor. The neighbor is also a Canton police officer.