MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #21 Retrial

[jepop]

no blood on the vehicle or inside? yet his arm is shredded. mOO

Yes, and from trial x1 no blood or skin or JO DNA on any if those 45 odd tail light shards either. How odd.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, and from trial x1 no blood or skin or JO DNA on any if those 45 odd tail light shards either. How odd.

Is it?
It would be touch DNA
I don’t think touch dna would hold up well under two feet of snow
Imo

 

[jepop]

Actually abrasions can bleed. They generally don't bleed heavily but yes they can bleed.

Yes. Moo, they were deep 'superficial' abrasions. We've all seen the photographs. There should have been traces of skin and blood on the dog claw like tail light shards that supposedly caused these oddly symmetrical wounds. Jmo

 

[Amber29]

First, I think she is being overcharged, she did not intend to kill JO.

And- I cannot explain frame by frame how he got each injury, however I think in most cases of an accident with no video, the exact sequence of events is at best an educated guess.

Here is a very simple version of why I think she hit him, causing the injuries that resulted in him dying of hypothermia in the snow, vs he was beat up and dragged out in the yard to die.

She was drunk- Evidence: video of her at the bar, blood evidence, and her own admission
She was angry- Evidence: those voicemails
She accelerated backward at high speed at some point- Evidence: Telematics from her car
She hit something at 34 Fairview hard enough to break a polycarbonate tail light housing- Evidence: tail light pieces found at the scene
The thing she hit was John- Evidence: a small amount of his DNA on the tail light and tail light fragments embedded in his clothing
John died as a result of that impact- Evidence: phone GPS data showing he never moved from the spot where they found him
Finally, the morning of, she thought this was the most reasonable explanation- Evidence: Her own words, "I hit him"

In addition, every testable part of her third-party culpability defense is false. Note that most of the story is not testable any longer.

There is no canine DNA on John to support a dog bite and the police were willing to test it, her defense never did.

Every witness has said that he never entered 34 Fairview that night.

There are no tail light pieces in John's driveway to support her hypothesis that she broke that light with the light tap of her car on his van

I appreciate your post and I agree she has been overcharged. My one question is how do you explain the brothers testimony that came to pick his sister up and was parked behind KR? He testified that he did not see JOK outside or inside the suv, only the driver. That’s a hard one for me to get past. Where was JOK at this time?

 

[waldojabba]

Why did she call JO her husband? And since we are keeping track. That is a lie.

I am not sure all "lies " are equal.

IMO "lies' kind of exist in a gray area or on a spectrum if you will.
K called John her husband, as I assume you know, to give her standing to be with him after his injuries. And its not uncommon for partners to call each other wife or husband. This I believe is called a "white lie" - its trivial and hurts noone/harmless. One might also tell a white lie to avoid hurting someone feelings. Like if someone (your wife) asks you if their butt looks big in that dress - of course you dont say yes. Most say "Of course not, and then probably turn and roll their eyes" lol.

Now if you are say, under oath in a court of law, maybe even at a grand jury and you do NOT tell te truth, that is a big deal. It can have a huge impact on whether someone is indicted or not. Thats why they put you under oath - and why there are penalties for lying.

So yes it seems we are keeping track of lies. but mostly what I see is that posters are calling out the substantial ones that impact the trial.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Good grief, Karen DID NOT KNOW the people at 34F. That's why she called the people known to her.

She called Kerry -
“John is dead”
“He musta been hit by a plow”

 

[KSwizzle]

Karen will not be convicted regardless if she did it or not because the investigation was egregiously awful, I would say even worse than that actually just wait till Higgins, the Alberts, and Proctor get up to the stand, it’s just not going to happen, if you’re mad at someone it should be the LE involved both the ones assigned to work the case and the ones situationally involved, moo

 

[Seattle1]

That's pretty bizarre of her to do.

For HIPAA purposes so not bizarre at all if you've ever been in this position!

 

[keek]

For HIPAA purposes so not bizarre at all if you've ever been in this position!

Be in her shoes mentally and emotionally with her person she was in a relationship long time, though going through hard and emotional times and found not alive. Chaos and terror.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Karen will not be convicted regardless if she did it or not because the investigation was egregiously awful, I would say even worse than that actually just wait till Higgins, the Alberts, and Proctor get up to the stand, it’s just not going to happen, if you’re mad at someone it should be the LE involved both the ones assigned to work the case and the ones situationally involved, moo

I so agree with you! She will be found NG or another hung jury. Making sense of all the missteps at this stage is not going to happen IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I so agree with you! She will be found NG or another hung jury. Making sense of all the missteps at this stage is not going to happen IMO.

Can you imagine another hung jury?
I just know the CW would try her a THIRD TIME - who would defend her then?
Her lawyers aren’t working “for free” forever

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915848939472855147

 

[Forest_Wood]

Why did she call JO her husband? And since we are keeping track. That is a lie.

I think it sounds juvenile to call someone your bf or gf when you're an older person.
Lots of people call their partners their wife or husband even if not married.
As others have pointed out though, she likely just wanted to elevate her status to gain information.
Remember she kept asking virtually everyone what was happening with John and nobody was giving her information.

 

[Angelwatch]

She called Kerry -
“John is dead”
“He musta been hit by a plow”

Did you watch Kerry's testimony? She stated while driving John Sr to the hospital he also said John is dead And that was obviously before they had reached the hospital and knew he had passed away. I think it was everyone's worst nightmare and both Karen and John Sr. vocalized it.

 

[KSwizzle]

Can you imagine another hung jury?
I just know the CW would try her a THIRD TIME - who would defend her then?
Her lawyers aren’t working “for free” forever

I actually think it’s the opposite because there are public funding websites, the legacy you’d leave when you defended your client from a potential conspiracy for a third time, and lastly, who do you get as a prosecutor, you want to be the third person up on an infamous case and when you lose for a third time your reputation as a lawyer will have a mark on it. Moo, plus people will and are already starting to ask how much tax payer dollars are going to this trial.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Can you imagine another hung jury?
I just know the CW would try her a THIRD TIME - who would defend her then?
Her lawyers aren’t working “for free” forever

After two hung juries, I think the taxpayers of MA would have an uproar if the CW tried to try her again. It won't happen.
MOO

 

[Tortoise]

I appreciate your post and I agree she has been overcharged. My one question is how do you explain the brothers testimony that came to pick his sister up and was parked behind KR? He testified that he did not see JOK outside or inside the suv, only the driver. That’s a hard one for me to get past. Where was JOK at this time?

No one knows what John's standing position was. The car interior light was on so it suggests the door had been open recently. John could have been putting his drink down on the ground while he checked his texts, and then tucking his phone away in his back pocket or bending to pick his drink up again if he'd put it down. Maybe he had Karen's glass to hold too. Too many unknowns, but distinct possibilities. I also think I remember the brother testifying he didn't see John but that he wasn't looking for him, because he was focused on the driver and it was only a quick moment or so as they drove past. On a dark night driving past a vehicle with an interior light on and a driver as a point of focus, it would be strange, IMO, to be peering into the darkness beyond the car without a reason.

MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Did you watch Kerry's testimony? She stated while driving John Sr to the hospital he also said John is dead And that was obviously before they had reached the hospital and knew he had passed away. I think it was everyone's worst nightmare and both Karen and John Sr. vocalized it.

Karen voiced it at 5am

 

[Derph]

To further the fantasy anyone who owns a dog or cat will tell you that is impossible to enter the home of a pet owner and not get some of the pets hair on you, it is even less likely you can avoid getting canine Hair and DNA on you if you are bitten and mauled by the animal and roll around on the floor after getting punched out.

The absence of canine DNA on JO makes it a virtual certainty that he never set foot in that house.

Molecular characterization of the canine mitochondrial DNA control region for forensic applications - PubMed

The Revolution of Animal Genomics in Forensic Sciences - PMC

To me the most telling piece of "evidence" is that the defense has never sent his shirt for their own Canine DNA testing or asked to have a bite impression done of the dog to compare to the images. Imagine if they had and the defense found Chloe's DNA on that shirt or the teeth lined up perfectly... case closed its a conspiracy.

We've brought this up 100's of times in these threads. There were only 3-4 swabs that were used to get DNA samples from. NONE of his clothing was handed over to the DNA testing company. The swabs were never identified as to where they came from on JOK shirt!! For all we know the samples didn't even come from the shirt at all!!! Add to that fact the shirt was also thrown on the floor of the hospital after it was cut off of the body. After that the shirt was thrown in a SHOPPING BAG along with other evidence! It was then taken out of the bag, and spread out on a chair in the evidence room to dry. AND there were no logs kept of who entered or left that evidence room FOR WEEKS as it laid there unsealed, picking up God only knows what from either other evidence or from other people as there was practically a revolving door on the evidence room. What a complete joke!!

 

[Wishbone]

Isn’t Karen accused of passing material to TB that shouldn’t have been shared?
I don’t see why it’s a stretch to believe she floated this to someone and had them make the call.
It no more far fetched than the conspiracy to frame Karen lead by Jen.

IMO

KR could pass any info she wanted to TB. It's her trial to talk about if she wants to share. What I think the cw is intimating is that she encouraged him to stalk and harass some of mccabes or alberts or the like.JMOO